Salvation: Can you lose it?
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In the situation you described: What was your spiritual state prior to the thought?
My thoughts are: When one accepts Christ, He takes on all our sin (past, present, future).
No you cannot lose salvation.
There is the question of the unpardonable sin (Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit Matt 12:31)
In my opinion this can only be done by an unsaved person. It is unforgiveable because it severs communication with the source of forgiveness.
My thoughts are: When one accepts Christ, He takes on all our sin (past, present, future).
No you cannot lose salvation.
There is the question of the unpardonable sin (Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit Matt 12:31)
In my opinion this can only be done by an unsaved person. It is unforgiveable because it severs communication with the source of forgiveness.
What about someone, who accepted Jesus early in their life (Teens) then later in life (mid 40s') decides he no longer believes and chooses atheism instead.
Doesn't the bible tell us it will be worse for him than if he had never believed? In other words can you choose to give up your salvation?
Doesn't the bible tell us it will be worse for him than if he had never believed? In other words can you choose to give up your salvation?
Are we talking about apostacy in general (what it is, and what are its consequences)?
This thread is currently being monitored and I asked permission for this thread to continue so far that every participant is courteous and civil and not bicker and argue and cause division.
Hopefully another more knowledgable Mod will be here soon and look into it
There are several places in the New Testament that talk about falling away. Each may be a little different, but in general I believe that sometimes believing saved Christians still have the old nature living within and the new Spirit struggles with the old. The old can overwhelm the new Spirit (carnal Christian). But that does not mean that he lost salvation,
There are also cultural Christians who like the meetings, and the social activities, and even get involved in the ministries and even discussing the intracacies of Biblical teaching, but who have never submitted to our Lord. Whether they become/remain church members or go off in another direction, they never had salvation and can not lose what they never had.
As far as eternal significance, we each are growing toward (or away) from out Lord at all times. After the resurrection we will still grow closer to Him. Some will be starting from an already established relationship while others who never progressed far in this life will be starting afresh.
There are also cultural Christians who like the meetings, and the social activities, and even get involved in the ministries and even discussing the intracacies of Biblical teaching, but who have never submitted to our Lord. Whether they become/remain church members or go off in another direction, they never had salvation and can not lose what they never had.
As far as eternal significance, we each are growing toward (or away) from out Lord at all times. After the resurrection we will still grow closer to Him. Some will be starting from an already established relationship while others who never progressed far in this life will be starting afresh.
I'm absolutely NOT going to get involved in this conversation for a reason. It's a doctrinal and deeply divisive topic that is definitely best served by your local church because the beliefs that are going to invariable become heavily debated here are not going to resolve this topic. I will personally leave it for the moment, but I do expect this topic to be closed VERY soon as per the list of topics that are not allowed to be discussed here.
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I read about two people that said they believed when they were young but now don't believe that God even exists. It would seem to me that IF they truly believed when they were younger and are now really atheist that they would no longer have salvation, not because they lost it but rather they threw it away.
Again "IF" they truly believed.
I do hope so........but????
Yep. I agree with Panda. It will cause a lot of arguments.
Can not happen! YOU my dear are the best MOD!This thread is currently being monitored and I asked permission for this thread to continue so far that every participant is courteous and civil and not bicker and argue and cause division.
Hopefully another more knowledgable Mod will be here soon and look into it
This is a question that has been kicked around for centuries. It is not new. It is also a very divisive question.
May I simply say to you what God has said to us in 1 John 2:19..........
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."
John uses the idea of "continuing" to refer to ongoing or repeated action. Those who did not last in the faith, particularly those who claimed to be leaders in the church, but turned against God, were literally against Christ or antichrists.
John adds, "But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." This abandonment of the faith offered proof or evidence that these false teachers were not true believers (1 John 2:22–23). In contrast with those who had been anointed (1 John 2:20), these false teachers did not have God's Spirit within them. They did not know the truth (1 John 2:21), denied Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22), and deceived others (1 John 2:26).
So in country boy language, what does all of that mean. Those who said that they were saved......were never said to begin with, therefore they did not lose something that they never had!
Matthew 7:21-22.........
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works....and I will say to them.........Depart from me, I never knew you!
R-E-S-P-E-C-T a song title from the old days, is the backbone of Christian love and unity. Remember, unity doesn't mean uniformity.
The question is more of "Were they truly saved in the first place?" 2 Timothy touches on this. Chapters 2, 3 and 4 has this subject swirling around in them.
This is from chapter 4:
3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 5 As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
Are you bought and paid for? Or are you just renting your heart out to the Spirit for a time? Until something better comes along? Are your passions tied to the Spirit?
Jesus said we will know them by their fruit. The fruit of the Spirit coincidentally is discussed in another thread just recently started. Apparently not a coincidence.
This is from chapter 4:
3 For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. 5 As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
Are you bought and paid for? Or are you just renting your heart out to the Spirit for a time? Until something better comes along? Are your passions tied to the Spirit?
Jesus said we will know them by their fruit. The fruit of the Spirit coincidentally is discussed in another thread just recently started. Apparently not a coincidence.
So, Hershey40, I am treading carefully here due to the subject matter being one that has a history of controversial and contentious debates.
I don’t believe you can “loose” salvation unwillingly, or said another way, without your consent. This implies being passively involved in an un pardonable event or circumstance; a victimization befalling a true believer.
I do believe you can choose to abandon the Word in ignorant willfulness and choose to become an apostate, but this would involve a deliberate and a participatory decision and subsequent action(s) that goes far beyond any involuntary action or accidental thought.
Our Lord love us and He is merciful.
Matthew 18:21-22
21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.
All this is my opinion only and I am not interested in defending or debating these thoughts.
Lol first thread and I’m already getting in trouble
of course. To be honest I didn’t know it was such a hot topic. The question really came from me watching the first God’s not dead movie and thinking about what happened to the professor at the end of the movie. And I’m sure you guys know the bases of the movie so I don’t need to explain it but at the end the professor gets hit by a car and is left little to no time. Then a pastor is right there to kinda guide him back into salvation… thank God. But then I thought what if the pastor wasn’t there and the professor never changed his mind. But I guess it’s safe to say that if that was the case then the professor would have not been saved because at the end of the day he chose to turn his back on God because of the pain of losing his mother. I guess what I take away from it is that at the end of the day we all have to make a choice and then stand by that choice. I like BigMoose analogy of are you bought and paid for? or are you just renting the spirit?
You aren't in trouble. It is a pretty hot button issue that is so often hotly debated that we don't allow it to be discussed here because it ALWAYS leads to arguments. You are fine. It also was due to you joining at the exact time that we had an issue sending staff emails, so again, you weren't aware through no fault of your own. I will close this topic now as most of the main ideas have been expressed and it hasn't gotten out of hand yet.Lol first thread and I’m already getting in trouble
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