Hello again Musicmaster, if God forced people to sin against their will, and then He judged and condemned them to spend eternity in the Lake of Fire for doing so, I agree with you, that would make Him a monster, not our loving, heavenly Abba. I also agree that there are those, especially out here in Christian Cyberland, who believe such things, but to say that their beliefs are not the Calvinist norm would be to make an understatement of incredible proportions
Just to be clear, that is NOT what Calvinism teaches, nor is God dragging people into Hell ~OR~ into Heaven against their will (kicking and screaming, so to speak) what mainstream or orthodox Calvinism teaches (unless I've missed it somehow?).
--Papa Smurf
PS, as a clarification, what I've shared doesn't point to God forcing anyone to sin, especially against their will.
You see, when the Reformed Theology teachers state in their dissertations that no man can recognize their sin, and thus desire crying out to the Lord for salvation in the midst of the realization of their lost state, they teach that only the Lord gives anyone the ability to recognize their sinful state, all because of all mankind allegedly being in a state of "total depravity" and there allegedly being "limited atonement" available to mankind.
Scripture teaches that the Lord did indeed give to ALL men the ability to recognize their sin, and to cry out to Him for salvation. If that were not the case, then it makes no sense where the Lord stated:
Titus 2:11 For
the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men...
and
1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For the Lord to offer only limited atonement and only to the few who He allegedly empowers to see their sinful state and call out to Him for salvation, that utterly contradicts His own words and His perfect will stated in the above verses, and it therefore makes Him into a moral monster, because that philosophy leads to the logical conclusion that the Lord intentionally created most men to populate Hell. It paints a portrait of the Lord punishing the lost for a choice He never empowered them to make, and the Reformed Theologians defend against that analysis by laying it all at the feet of God's Sovereignty, and therefore allegedly NOT making Him out to be a moral monster who punishes men eternally for His own pleasure.
As always, I encourage others to read the scriptures for yourselves, and to seek the Lord for His truth in all this, as is stated in 1 John 2:27.
Reformed theology leads to the following:
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make some men in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Oops! No? You're right. Genesis does NOT say that! It actually says:
Genesis 1:26 And God said,
Let us make man in our image,
after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Does the image of God portray total depravity to the extent that there is no conscience, except that the Lord give conscience to some men, and therefore the ability to see the state he is in? Folks, that's just too hard a pill to swallow for me. What scripture actually says throughout the entire Bible, as can be seen through a systematic study, is that God's Justice is such that He only punishes those who consciously reject Him and His offer of salvation.
Reformed Theology teaches that man having the ability to see his sinful state, and act accordingly steals away from God, and allegedly forces Him to have to wait on men to see their fallen state and reach out to Him for salvation at the point each man chooses in his life. Ok, so what's the problem with that? The one question the Reformed Theology thinkers have never been able to answer is:
How is God's sovereignly allegedly violated by His having chosen to give to mankind the ability to see and recognize his own lost state, and to cry out to the Lord for salvation that only He can give?
Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD,
choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Those are not the inspired words from a Sovereign who makes that choice for men, in the place of their own decision processes the Lord empowered each one to make, and to reward or punish each one accordingly.
Does that make sense?
TULIP has falsehoods in its interpretive foundation.
MM