GENESIS - The Seedbed Of All Bible Doctrines

[Major]

Have YOU considered where Bible doctrine comes from??? Of course some will say that is comes from God and that is correct. Some will say it comes through the church and that of course is correct also.

Now, if we think objectively I think that we all can agree that obviously not everything that God took 66 books of the Bible to tell us over some 15 centuries, by 40 different men is contained in just the first book. There is a progression of doctrine throughout the Bible. From the first verse of Genesis to the last verse of Revelation, we learn more about God, ourselves, sin, redemption, etc. with each successive book. All the major doctrines of the Bible are like rivers that become deeper and broader as they flow from the initial watershed of Genesis.

I thought that it would be a good source of conversation and learning about the Bible if we considered those Doctrines found in Genesis one by one.

#1.........GOD.
Genesis 1:1........."In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

The doctrine of creation states that God, who alone is uncreated and eternal, has formed and given existence to everything outside of himself. He did this from nothing by the word of his power, and all of it was very good. The Apostles’ Creed and The Nicene Creed state that God is the creator of the universe.

The question of whether or not God created everything in the universe is a line in the sand, so to speak, that immediately divides everyone in the world into two camps:
1. those who believe in creation and
2. those who don’t.

This question has also divided Christians on the question of when did God create the earth. My response is simple, IT DOES NOT MATTER! You see, most of us ague just to argue. Some people will argue with the mirror. It is not worth arguing over whether the earth is Old or Young. The fact is....IT IS!

The point here is that The first four words of the Bible place immediate emphasis upon God. They tell us from the very beginning that before anything else in the universe existed, God already was. Nothing brought him into being. Nothing gave him existence. He was around long before anything else was. He was around long before there was even such a thing as time itself.

Lets think about it, talk about it but lets not argue! After a time to respond I will go onto another doctrine in Genesis.

 

[Prim90]

Have YOU considered where Bible doctrine comes from??? Of course some will say that is comes from God and that is correct. Some will say it comes through the church and that of course is correct also.

Now, if we think objectively I think that we all can agree that obviously not everything that God took 66 books of the Bible to tell us over some 15 centuries, by 40 different men is contained in just the first book. There is a progression of doctrine throughout the Bible. From the first verse of Genesis to the last verse of Revelation, we learn more about God, ourselves, sin, redemption, etc. with each successive book. All the major doctrines of the Bible are like rivers that become deeper and broader as they flow from the initial watershed of Genesis.

I thought that it would be a good source of conversation and learning about the Bible if we considered those Doctrines found in Genesis one by one.

#1.........GOD.
Genesis 1:1........."In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth."

The doctrine of creation states that God, who alone is uncreated and eternal, has formed and given existence to everything outside of himself. He did this from nothing by the word of his power, and all of it was very good. The Apostles’ Creed and The Nicene Creed state that God is the creator of the universe.

The question of whether or not God created everything in the universe is a line in the sand, so to speak, that immediately divides everyone in the world into two camps:
1. those who believe in creation and
2. those who don’t.

This question has also divided Christians on the question of when did God create the earth. My response is simple, IT DOES NOT MATTER! You see, most of us ague just to argue. Some people will argue with the mirror. It is not worth arguing over whether the earth is Old or Young. The fact is....IT IS!

The point here is that The first four words of the Bible place immediate emphasis upon God. They tell us from the very beginning that before anything else in the universe existed, God already was. Nothing brought him into being. Nothing gave him existence. He was around long before anything else was. He was around long before there was even such a thing as time itself.

Lets think about it, talk about it but lets not argue! After a time to respond I will go onto another doctrine in Genesis.

We may have a doctrinal issue straight away. In Genesis 1:1 you write In the beginning God created the ( heavens ) or is it ( heaven ) ?

 

[Siloam]

The Genesis account of the first day is not a bad description of the Big Bang!

() Nothing preceded it
() It started out unorganized, no baryonic matter
() It was dark, At first photons could not exist, when expansion occurred and cooled long enough, photons were created, but immediately absorbed by the density of matter.
() When cooled enough and expanded enough the young universe underwent a phase change (at God's command) and became transparent to light. Since photons were already made and filled the dense matter (prior step) the universe was filled with light.

A good days work>

 

[Major]

We may have a doctrinal issue straight away. In Genesis 1:1 you write In the beginning God created the ( heavens ) or is it ( heaven ) ?

"WE" do not have any doctrinal issues at all.

New International Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

New Living Translation
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

English Standard Version
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Berean Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

King James Bible
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

New King James Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

New American Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

NASB 1995
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

NASB 1977
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

It seems as if all the translations say "Heavens". But that was not the Doctrine issue at all. It was #1.........GOD!!!

God is! That is the number 1 Bible doctrine. GOD IS! There can be no other conversations without 1st realizing and accepting that there is a God.

​

◄ 8064. shamayim ►

​

"Heavens" Strong's Concordance shamayim: heaven, sky​ Original Word: שָׁמַיִם Part of Speech: Noun Masculine Transliteration: shamayim Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-mah'-yim) Definition: heaven, sky Interlinear Greek • Interlinear Hebrew • Strong's Numbers • Englishman's Greek Concordance • Englishman's Hebrew Concordance • Parallel Texts Englishman's Concordance Genesis 1:1 HEB: אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃ NAS: God created the heavens and the earth. KJV: God created the heaven and the earth. INT: created God the heavens the earth

The King James council chose the singular word heaven to translate from the Hebrew word shamayim in Genesis 1. Shamayim is translated 420 times in the Bible. Over half of the verses were translated heaven. About a fourth of the verses use the plural heavens.

Why did the translators prefer the singular rather than the plural in Genesis 1:1? Genesis 1:1 is referring to the physical creation, and physical heaven is being referred to in verse one. On the first day of creation, there was earth, and there was heaven around it.
Source: https://creationinsights.org/heaven-heavens-genesis-11/

 

[Prim90]

"WE" do not have any doctrinal issues at all.

New International Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

New Living Translation
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

English Standard Version
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

Berean Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

King James Bible
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

New King James Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

New American Standard Bible
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

NASB 1995
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

NASB 1977
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

It seems as if all the translations say "Heavens". But that was not the Doctrine issue at all. It was #1.........GOD!!!

God is! That is the number 1 Bible doctrine. GOD IS! There can be no other conversations without 1st realizing and accepting that there is a God.

​

◄ 8064. shamayim ►

​

"Heavens" Strong's Concordance shamayim: heaven, sky​ Original Word: שָׁמַיִם Part of Speech: Noun Masculine Transliteration: shamayim Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-mah'-yim) Definition: heaven, sky Interlinear Greek • Interlinear Hebrew • Strong's Numbers • Englishman's Greek Concordance • Englishman's Hebrew Concordance • Parallel Texts Englishman's Concordance Genesis 1:1 HEB: אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃ NAS: God created the heavens and the earth. KJV: God created the heaven and the earth. INT: created God the heavens the earth

The King James council chose the singular word heaven to translate from the Hebrew word shamayim in Genesis 1. Shamayim is translated 420 times in the Bible. Over half of the verses were translated heaven. About a fourth of the verses use the plural heavens.

Why did the translators prefer the singular rather than the plural in Genesis 1:1? Genesis 1:1 is referring to the physical creation, and physical heaven is being referred to in verse one. On the first day of creation, there was earth, and there was heaven around it.
Source: https://creationinsights.org/heaven-heavens-genesis-11/

Major that be correct . The king James translators kept it singular for good reason because it states In Genesis 1:13-19 that the Sun, Moon and stars weren’t created until the fourth day. They got it right with heaven and not heavens as yet.

 

[crossnote]

The Genesis account of the first day is not a bad description of the Big Bang!

() Nothing preceded it
() It started out unorganized, no baryonic matter
() It was dark, At first photons could not exist, when expansion occurred and cooled long enough, photons were created, but immediately absorbed by the density of matter.
() When cooled enough and expanded enough the young universe underwent a phase change (at God's command) and became transparent to light. Since photons were already made and filled the dense matter (prior step) the universe was filled with light.

A good days work>

Except the BB didn't have an Intelligent Mover behind it, just Dumb Chance.

 

[Prim90]

The Genesis account of the first day is not a bad description of the Big Bang!

() Nothing preceded it
() It started out unorganized, no baryonic matter
() It was dark, At first photons could not exist, when expansion occurred and cooled long enough, photons were created, but immediately absorbed by the density of matter.
() When cooled enough and expanded enough the young universe underwent a phase change (at God's command) and became transparent to light. Since photons were already made and filled the dense matter (prior step) the universe was filled with light.

A good days work>

God doesn't speak of a Big Bang but he does say that He spoke everything into existence.

 

[Prim90]

Except the BB didn't have an Intelligent Mover behind it, just Dumb Chance.

Yes there always be thought and purpose behind any Big Bang. Us ladies know it well enough there certainly be a creative mind behind it. Big bangs just don’t happen without reason

 

[Tery]

The Genesis account of the first day is not a bad description of the Big Bang!

() Nothing preceded it
() It started out unorganized, no baryonic matter
() It was dark, At first photons could not exist, when expansion occurred and cooled long enough, photons were created, but immediately absorbed by the density of matter.
() When cooled enough and expanded enough the young universe underwent a phase change (at God's command) and became transparent to light. Since photons were already made and filled the dense matter (prior step) the universe was filled with light.

A good days work>

People tend to act as though science is trying to contradict God, when in fact all it proves is just how brilliant God's creation is. The Big Bang, may very well have occurred, but by God's will and through God's doing. Atoms, photons and the elemental interactions exist, we can not refute that, nor can we refute God's existence as He brought it all into existence and in such a way that the entire universe sustains itself without any further intervention required.

Now that is indeed a good day's work

 

[Prim90]

People tend to act as though science is trying to contradict God, when in fact all it proves is just how brilliant God's creation is. The Big Bang, may very well have occurred, but by God's will and through God's doing. Atoms, photons and the elemental interactions exist, we can not refute that, nor can we refute God's existence as He brought it all into existence and in such a way that the entire universe sustains itself without any further intervention required.

Now that is indeed a good day's work

Well yes some do try and use science to contradict the bible account . The Big Bang theory is rather obsolete. The theory put forth by Georges Lemaiture in 1927. Is that from a single point that all those chemicals interacted some 13-14 billions of years ago to bring forth a ever expanding universe. The final nail in the coffin for the Big Bang came with the deployment of the James Webb space telescope in 2021 that showed blue shirt instead of red shirt from newly discovered galaxies from their star system which would make them older than the supposed age of the Big Bang. Which has the final authority Gods word or do we trust in the ever changing wind of opinions from the scientific world of which a majority have no time for God more so when it comes to the world of science

 

[Tery]

Which has the final authority Gods word or do we trust in the ever changing wind of opinions from the scientific world of which a majority have no time for God more so when it comes to the world of science

Well indeed, all we do need to know is that God spoke and it was so. Neither how it came to be, nor how it shall be extinguished, will have any bearing on our salvation.

 

[Major]

People tend to act as though science is trying to contradict God, when in fact all it proves is just how brilliant God's creation is. The Big Bang, may very well have occurred, but by God's will and through God's doing. Atoms, photons and the elemental interactions exist, we can not refute that, nor can we refute God's existence as He brought it all into existence and in such a way that the entire universe sustains itself without any further intervention required.

Now that is indeed a good day's work

Someone had to strike the match!

 

[Major]

Now.............Back to the theology of GOD!

God is seen as the Creator of all things in Genesis, but also as the One who has a plan and purpose for mankind, that is, for us.

This plan and purpose involves our living in a relationship of obedience to God as well as of trust and love for Him. Thus God is seen as Lawgiver in His command to Adam not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden of Eden in Gen. 2:17.

Then God is seen as Judge following Adam’s disobedience in Gen. 3, as well as in His judgment at the Flood, at Babel, and on Sodom and Gomorrah.

God is also seen as Saviour, prophesied in Genesis 3:15, and then in action in His saving Noah and his family from the judgment of the Flood, and Lot and his daughters from the judgment on Sodom in Genesis 18, 19.

I think that we all need to understand that As the Creator of all things, God has the absolute right to rule over all things, and He exercises this authority in the world—demonstrating His sovereignty. This is seen in Genesis in four outstanding events:
1. The Creation,
2. The Fall,
3. The Flood, and
4. Babel.

It is also seen in God’s choice, call and direction of four outstanding people:
1. Abraham,
2. Isaac,
3. Jacob and
4. Joseph.

 

[Prim90]

Tery if that be all we need to know that God spoke and it was so and anything else will have no bearing on our salvation. Than that makes for a rather smallish bible. All scripture is inspired and given to the church for teaching and correction and for a reason. God is truth and all his word matters.

 

[Major]

Except the BB didn't have an Intelligent Mover behind it, just Dumb Chance.

Two well known scientists calculated the odds of life forming by natural processes. They estimated that there is less than 1 chance in 10 to the 40,000power that life could have originated by random trials. 10 to the 40,000power is a 1 with 40,000 zeros after it!

 

[Major]

Major that be correct . The king James translators kept it singular for good reason because it states In Genesis 1:13-19 that the Sun, Moon and stars weren’t created until the fourth day. They got it right with heaven and not heavens as yet.

Personally, I do not think that this is a point of contention.

If you will recall, Paul spoke of the 3rd Heaven. So for there to be 3 there must be a 1 and 2.

The “heaven” into which Paul was “caught away” in vision likely refers to.........
(1) the physical heaven to come on earth,
(2) the spiritual heaven that will exist then, which will be more extensive than the spiritual paradise that exists now, and
(3) “the heaven of God” where He lives and that will coexist in the new world.

The word heavens can be used to refer to different realms. Heavens can refer to the sky and the earth’s atmosphere, making it the “first heaven” (Deuteronomy 11:11; Psalm 104:12; Isaiah 55:10). It can also refer to outer space, where the stars and planets are—the “second heaven” (Psalm 8:3; Isaiah 13:10). And it can refer to God’s dwelling place, which is beyond the other “heavens,” a place known as the “third heaven” (Psalm 33:13–14; Isaiah 66:1; Matthew 6:9; Hebrews 7:26; Revelation 11:19). When Paul says that he went to the third heaven, he means that he went to the place where God dwells.

 

[Prim90]

Personally, I do not think that this is a point of contention.

If you will recall, Paul spoke of the 3rd Heaven. So for there to be 3 there must be a 1 and 2.

The “heaven” into which Paul was “caught away” in vision likely refers to.........
(1) the physical heaven to come on earth,
(2) the spiritual heaven that will exist then, which will be more extensive than the spiritual paradise that exists now, and
(3) “the heaven of God” where He lives and that will coexist in the new world.

The word heavens can be used to refer to different realms. Heavens can refer to the sky and the earth’s atmosphere, making it the “first heaven” (Deuteronomy 11:11; Psalm 104:12; Isaiah 55:10). It can also refer to outer space, where the stars and planets are—the “second heaven” (Psalm 8:3; Isaiah 13:10). And it can refer to God’s dwelling place, which is beyond the other “heavens,” a place known as the “third heaven” (Psalm 33:13–14; Isaiah 66:1; Matthew 6:9; Hebrews 7:26; Revelation 11:19). When Paul says that he went to the third heaven, he means that he went to the place where God dwells.

Yes Paul was certainly privileged to look upon the third heaven be it in a vision or literally. The third heaven is no doubt where God has his throne. That not be a point of contention. The point of contention comes between the first & second heaven of which came into being first. The church was strongly Geocentric and remained so for some 1800 yrs. when you add that S to refer to plural heavens and not a singular heaven as mentioned in Genesis 1:1 it changes and weakens a whole doctrine. We find later that the second heaven. The Sun the moon, planets and stars are not created until the fourth day of creation. Genesis 1: 14-19. Meaning that the earth had no need for movement or rotation around the sun for it was already created on the first day the sun came latter on the 4th day of creation. The battle between Geocentric & Heliocentricity continues until this very day. The very reason why the KJV translators left Genesis 1:1 singular because the 2nd heaven came later

 

[Major]

Yes Paul was certainly privileged to look upon the third heaven be it in a vision or literally. The third heaven is no doubt where God has his throne. That not be a point of contention. The point of contention comes between the first & second heaven of which came into being first. The church was strongly Geocentric and remained so for some 1800 yrs. when you add that S to refer to plural heavens and not a singular heaven as mentioned in Genesis 1:1 it changes and weakens a whole doctrine. We find later that the second heaven. The Sun the moon, planets and stars are not created until the fourth day of creation. Genesis 1: 14-19. Meaning that the earth had no need for movement or rotation around the sun for it was already created on the first day the sun came latter on the 4th day of creation. The battle between Geocentric & Heliocentricity continues until this very day. The very reason why the KJV translators left Genesis 1:1 singular because the 2nd heaven came later

I do not agree! Does the Bible teach Geocentricity? NO!

The short answer to this question is “no.” Nowhere in the Bible are we told that the earth is at the center of the universe.

I think that maybe you are making a little too much out of the word "Heaven/heavens" .

As I have posted already, The word "heaven" is used in at least three different senses in the Old Testament:
1. The sky. The place of clouds and birds. (Job 35:5 "Look to the heavens and see. Behold the clouds ...")
2. Outer space. The place of planets and stars. (Deut 4:19 "... lift your eyes to the heavens, and you see the Sun and Moon and the stars". 3. The place from which God lives and has his throne. (1 Kings 8:30 "Hear in heaven, your dwelling place ...")

I think the most likely reading of Genesis 1:1 is that it is talking about heaven in the sense of "outer space". In the beginning, God created space -- the universe -- and then within this universe he created the Earth. Logical, simple.

While the stars and planets occupy outer space, they are not space itself. It seems very logical to me to say that God first created space, and then a little later he created objects to populate that space.

 

[Tery]

Tery if that be all we need to know that God spoke and it was so and anything else will have no bearing on our salvation. Than that makes for a rather smallish bible. All scripture is inspired and given to the church for teaching and correction and for a reason. God is truth and all his word matters.

You misunderstand me. God spoke, and there was light, that is all we need to know about how God created light.

 

[Major]

Yes Paul was certainly privileged to look upon the third heaven be it in a vision or literally. The third heaven is no doubt where God has his throne. That not be a point of contention. The point of contention comes between the first & second heaven of which came into being first. The church was strongly Geocentric and remained so for some 1800 yrs. when you add that S to refer to plural heavens and not a singular heaven as mentioned in Genesis 1:1 it changes and weakens a whole doctrine. We find later that the second heaven. The Sun the moon, planets and stars are not created until the fourth day of creation. Genesis 1: 14-19. Meaning that the earth had no need for movement or rotation around the sun for it was already created on the first day the sun came latter on the 4th day of creation. The battle between Geocentric & Heliocentricity continues until this very day. The very reason why the KJV translators left Genesis 1:1 singular because the 2nd heaven came later

The answer to your questions comes down to the "Cosmological Argument for the Existance of God".

Romans 1:20...........
" For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".

The argument from cause and effect is one logical argument for the existence of God hence the doctrine of GOD!.

As everything that exists must have an adequate cause, so an all powerful and intelligent God is the adequate cause to explain the Universe! The Scriptures identify that causes as the creative power of God are seen in Genesis 1:1, Romans 1:19 & 20 and Psalms 94:9.