1. Hello Guest! You are browsing the forums as a guest; you will have limited permissions as a guest so we advise registering to enjoy the forums fully. Remember: we are a Christian ONLY site - any user who is not Christian will not be approved. Blessings, Christian Forum Site Staff
    Dismiss Notice

Will vs Desire

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by netchaplain, May 9, 2015.

  1. God “desires all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth” (1Tim 2:4), for He is “not desiring that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.” (2Pet 3:9). Is God’s will being done in all? Yes! Is God’s desires being done by all? No. Thus His will and desire are being done only in the believer. Though God’s desire is that nobody perishes, His will is that those who “have done evil” are to inherit “the resurrection of damnation,” and those who “have done good” are to inherit “the resurrection of life” (John 5:29).


    “It is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure” (Phl 2:13). This is a work that every individual believer undergoes. Wherefore, if this “work” be not externally evident, it reveals the absence not only of the Father’s work within, but also that of the presence of the Spirit within, in “bearing witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God” (Rom 8:16).
     
    Fish Catcher Jim, Cturtle and Euphemia says Amen and like this.

  2. Hello,

    When posting 2 scriptures that seem to indicate that all evil people burn and any good people go to heaven.... you need to be be really specific about the context, so that readers are not mislead into thinking that good people go to heaven and bad people go to hell.
    Done deal.
    Atter all the New Testament says we are all "filthy rags'" who have "fallen short of the glory of God" and we are all counted as unrighteous until we are justified by the blood of Jesus.
    So that is you.
    That is me.
    That is everyone.
    Also, im certain you are not trying to prove that you work your way to heaven, but, your thread seems to be getting pretty close to teaching the anti-OSAS position.

    So, as i was considering your Thread it occurred to me that you had left out exactly what the "will" and the "work" is, that God requires so that we can do it, so that we can be accepted by him and not worry about our Salvation.
    Im sure you didnt mean to do this, but being that you did, i have posted it for any reader so that thy have the context of your scriptures.


    So, here is the WILL of God for all:

    1 Tim 2:4 """"Who WILL have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."""

    Here is WORK of God that executes Justification by Faith for anyone:

    John 6: 29 """""Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the WORK of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.""""

    So there you have the will of God for you and the Work of God that he wants you to complete.


    K
     
  3. It's not my word's that you oppose (Scripture). Can it be said that it is not the will of God that unbelievers perish? Even though condemnation is not God's "desire," it is His will for the unbeliever. There must be differentiation between the will of God and the pleasure (desire) of God.
     
    Euphemia likes this.
  4. No, im not opposing the scripture:)
    Im pointing out that you are saying that "" the good go to heaven", and "the evil go to hell", as per "God's will"....while you never define what "good" is, or what "bad" is, except in terms of showing good works or not.
    The way you state it is..... that if a Christian does not outwardly show the inward work of God then this person is one of those "evil" hell-bound.
    So, my point again, is that you are not accurately describing, in theological terms, in New Testament terms..... the "have done evil", as compared to "have done good"......... In other words who these "types" really are, and what they are doing.

    And the fact is, there is ""'NONE GOOD< NO NOT ONE".
    So, do you understand this scripture applies to all of us, in and of ourselves.?
    The only GOOD that God recognizes is the Righteousness of Christ that he GIVE US, as the "gift of righteousness".
    He will never ever see you as "good" based on your "works".
    So, when you are trying to teach that the good go to heaven and the evil go to hell, then you are not explaining what GOD SEES as good, and Evil.
    And that is the issue with your theology, here, today.

    God says the heart that does not believe, is the "EVIL HEART OF UNBELIEF".
    So THERE is your EVIL.<
    And the heart that believes is the "Justified".
    So there is you "good works".

    So, if we read your thread as posted carefully, it goes like this....

    "you are going to hell if you are evil, and the way you know you are evil is that you are not doing good works that indicate you are saved".

    "you are going to heaven if you do good works that indicate you have the Holy Spirit working in you".

    And im sorry, but that is teaching Salvation by works, and that is not allowed on this forum as they are strict about people who come here and try to argue against OSAS, even if they do it in a way that is not at first obvious, but then becomes obvious if a person reads carefully how you are putting a condition on the Evil and the Good, as .... Good works or not.
    You are teaching Salvation by works, and that is not allowed on this forum, and you should stop, asap.



    K
     
  5. No, netchaplain is using John 5 to make his point, which says none other than:

    28 Don’t be so surprised! Indeed, the time is coming when all the dead in their graves will hear the voice of God’s Son, 29 and they will rise again. Those who have done good will rise to experience eternal life, and those who have continued in evil will rise to experience judgment.

    He is not pushing salvation by works. But you should know that God sees who is evil and who is righteous and He will judge accordingly.
     
    JG27_chili, Fish Catcher Jim and Mykuhl says Amen and like this.
  6. #6 Mykuhl, May 9, 2015
    Last edited: May 9, 2015
    No, NetChaplain is not teaching salvation by works. You are ignoring his whole last paragraph. It is God that does the work in us not us working it out ourselves. "For it is God who WORKS in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure" Philippians 2:13. The fact remains that those works must be displayed. I hope you don't suppose that one can enter into the kingdom of God and eternal life while living his whole life contrary to what He teaches.
    You seem to ignore or deny the fact that the Holy Spirit produces the good fruit /"works" in the beleiver's life that God desires.
     
    JG27_chili, Fish Catcher Jim and Euphemia says Amen and like this.
  7. NetC, is absolutely equating "evil" and "good" with "works" that prove you are good <> one of the "have done good to inherit".

    He is absolutely teaching that to "inherit" heaven <> salvation, you are to do so by the works that prove you have the Holy Spirit.
    And if you dont, then you dont have the HS, and you are the "evil"one spoken of in the thread.
    Why else would he connect lack of outward works with "evil" and the consequence is to be damned?
    And that, my Brother, is absolutely teaching works for salvation <> Arminianism.

    All you have to do is notice that the thread is stating that God is sending the "evil" to their damnation as his "will", and then this is tied directly into..."works that prove you are not the evil" spoken of in the scripture.
    It could not be more clear.


    K
     
  8. And you my friend apparently didnt read NC's last paragraph all the way to the end.
    So, i'll post it for you.
    here you go.

    """""""Wherefore, if this “work” be not EXTERNALLY EVIDENT, it reveals the absence not only of the Father’s work within, but also that of the presence of the Spirit within, in “bearing witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God”"""""""

    Do you see that "work" be >>>>"externally evident"?<<<<
    That my friend is not the inner working......that is the OUTER MANIFESTION of the inner working.
    THAT IS WORKS.<> DEEDS.
    Behavior, lifestyle....


    Please dont tell me that you think the word "externally" means, "inner man":)


    k
     
  9. I don't see the problem here...your own words here support my point. As you said, "that is the outer manifestation of the inner working". You say that that is not the inner working. But yourself called it the inner working there. A manifestation is an evidence or materialization of something....as it is in this case of the inner working. If this is not evidence of the inner working then what is?
     
  10. #10 Kidron, May 9, 2015
    Last edited: May 9, 2015
    I didnt say it:)
    NChaplin said it.
    Its the verse he is using, (last sentence).
    He is tying in external DEEDS, (works) with those that God wills as """""inheriting eternal life.""""
    And if that is true, then Jesus came a long way for NOTHING.
    See, first he tells you that its Gods will that all be saved.....thats the first part of his thread.
    So, we're good so far.
    Then, he wants to tell you what the will of God for the "have done evil", is.....and that is that they are damned.
    Its God's will, NC wants you to understand.
    So, then the problem with this type of theology begins......>as .....we have all done evil.:)
    So, a cut and dried scripture that says....."all who have done evil", > hell.........has to be EXPLAINED in context, because if you just leave it like NCHapin left it, then you are hell bound my friend, as you have done evil.
    Remember all the times?
    So, here comes Net Chaplin to qualify the "evil".
    He then uses, "external works" as the one who is not evil, as the METHOD to not go to hell.
    And that is Salvation by works, and that is not allowed on this forum.....that particular theology.
    See, NetC never qualifies or explains the "have done evil".....he only states that its God's will that they burn.
    So thats the first problem.
    The second is when he then equates the "good" as ONLY those who are doing works outwardly.
    And that is "works" as the "good" who inherit heaven.
    That is , Arminianism
    That is......saved by works, and kept saved by works.
    "works for righteousness".
     
  11. God will cast all the wicked into hellfire and He will bless all whom He deems good with life.

    Nota bene, your own comments concerning works:
    You've taken a simple truth offered by a Christian member and morphed all out of proportion through presumption.
     
  12. #12 Kidron, May 10, 2015
    Last edited: May 10, 2015

    Yes, "all he deems good".
    And those would be the born again believers.
    You are correct, as they have been given the "gift of righteousness", and are "in Christ".

    Now, regarding your pov...
    Is it honest to say what i wrote to a new believer about the daily walk, that i never equated with Salvation, and directly told them they "dont have to DO anything"...., And i only spoke with them regarding their Discipleship... and not about their Salvation...
    Does that sound anything like what NCHap wrote?
    Not quite.
    So, you cant honestly compare that which i wrote, with a defense agains OSAS written by NC Chap, which teaches that those who inherit eternal life do so by the evidence of their outward works.
    So, his teaching is not allowed on this forum.
    Thats the rule.

    Now, here is something about me that you can take to the bank and cash.
    That is, i will NEVER put the burden of someone's salvation, on their back.
    I will always keep it on the Cross.
    Believe it.
    Fact.
    Bottom line.


    And we can solve all this regarding NCChaps true intention, if you like.
    Just ask NC Chap if he believes that a Born Again Christian can lose their Salvation, for any reason., and to name it, if he does.
    Ask him if he believes that a born again Christian can end up in hell.
    Lets find out.
    Lets solve your concern.
     
  13. Kidron, you really have missed netchaplain's point:

     
  14. Are you the new forum police officer?

    You could have asked him instead of gunning him with both barrels.
     
    JG27_chili, Fish Catcher Jim and Mykuhl says Amen and like this.
  15. Here is Net Chaplin's point.
    I didnt miss it, as he wrote it.

    """""Wherefore, if this “work” be not externally evident, it reveals the absence not only of the Father’s work within, but also that of the presence of the Spirit within, in “bearing witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God"""


    This is the 2nd part of his ...."evil who inherits" hell.
    He is showing you who..
    And that would be the person-christian, who is not manifesting "works". (externally evident WORKS).
    This is why he posted it in the thread, Euphemia.
    Thats his POINT.<

    So, as i said.
    The rules of this site do not allow this particular type of "works for salvation" theology to be argued-taught..

    And as i just stated.
    Lets ask NCpln if he believes a born again Christian can lose their salvation., or if a born again Christian can end up in hell after they die......for any reason.
    So, ive stated my point, and ive clearly stated it.
    The rest is up to the reader to decide., while we wait for NChpln to answer.
    I dont think that he will specially answer, and so, you can judge from there.
    So......Im finished here, till NChpln decides to answer, or to not.


    blessings,

    K
    <><
     
  16. Try reporting it INSTEAD of arguing, which, of course, is prohibited....isn't it?

    Try PMing the notable member.
     
  17. All i did was respond to NetChaplin.
    He replied, and i responded.
    We stopped.
    Then you and one other decided to argue with me.:)

    I know what he wrote, and i would prefer if he answered the questions here.
    He'll see them, and then he can respond.
    Its what we do here....


    blessings,

    K
    <><
     
  18. We do a lot of other things here, too, like posting a greeting in the New Members Welcome forum when one joins this website.
     

  19. Kidron Greetings,
    It Helps when quoting someone as to a reference to make your point to keep the quote in context of how it was written.
    It is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure” (Phl 2:13). This is a work that every individual believer undergoes. Wherefore, if this “work” be not externally evident, it reveals the absence not only of the Father’s work within, but also that of the presence of theSpirit within, in “bearing witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God” (Rom 8:16).

    Now then when you view this in context you will see it says
    God works in you or does a work in you
    Now if this work can not be seen outwardly or extrernally
    This means the believer has not aloud God Free right to change them.

    The works seen external could be said as Fruits of the spirit. For if God changes you then one should show fruits of the spirit and not fruits of the flesh which would mean the work that God has been doing is not seen.

    Now then you have a great day
    Blessings
    jim
     
  20. As I've stated before, I believe Kidron is sincere but is yet in need of some maturing time. God's blessing to Him, and to the Families of all who have encouraged me in this thread! Your replies and comments are greatly appreciated.

    Highest Blessings To God!
     
    Fish Catcher Jim and Euphemia say Amen and like this.

Share This Page