When Jesus comes for the Body of Christ.

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Marilyn C, Dec 1, 2015.

  1. #1 Marilyn C, Dec 1, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2015
    I believe when the Body of Christ comes to the unity of faith then it will be complete, ready to meet Jesus & go to its eternal destination. The unity of faith concerns what we believe of the Lord & His purposes. Many people measure this by man`s ability to bring us together, however I believe God`s word shows us that it is by the Holy Spirit that we come to the unity of faith. It is He who has guided the Body over the centuries & across the world, bringing revelation & truth that we have today.

    Now just a quick summary of how the Holy Spirit has guided the Body. We know that Paul taught the whole counsel of God to the early believers but warned that when he was gone false teachers would arise & come to try to deceive them.

    `For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.` (Acts 20: 27)

    `Take heed….for I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves.` (Acts 20: 29 – 31)

    Looking back throughout history we can see the main errors that came against the believers

    - not holding fast to the Head,
    - letting leaders lord it over them,
    - division of laity & priests,
    - baptism of children,
    - connecting church & State,
    - indulgences,

    Then we see that there is a reviving of the truths of Christ as the Holy Spirit brings revelation & guides not only individuals but the whole Body of Christ into all truth.

    `When He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth..` (John 16: 13)

    The main truths we can see that have been restored over the centuries are –

    - Salvation through Christ`s sacrifice.
    - Living a holy life.
    - Baptism in water for adults as a profession of faith.
    - Infilling of the Holy Spirit & His giftings.
    - The ministry gifts of the ascended Christ. (Evangelist, Pastor, Teacher, Prophet, Apostle)

    These we have seen recognized in the second part of the last century. Along with the true there also has come the false, and each believer needs to be very discerning. Then there is the last truth to be revealed, clarified by the Holy Spirit across the Body of Christ. This concerns, I believe, the eternal purposes of God for the Body of Christ, for Israel & for the nations. They are concerned with WHY God has planned each group & their eternal inheritance. When we look at why God has planned His purposes, then we would not only understand them better but have a greater appreciation of our Lord & Saviour, our Heavenly Father & the Holy Spirit.

    Thus I believe that when the Holy Spirit has led the Body of Christ into all the truth, then we will have come to the unity of faith & be complete.

    `till we all come to the unity of faith & the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ: that we should no longer be children, tossed to & fro & carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive, but, speaking the truth in love may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head – Christ – from whom the whole Body, joined & knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, cause the growth of the Body for the edifying of itself in love.` (Eph. 4: 13 – 16)

    What are your thoughts concerning the unity of faith?
    • Marilyn.

    Big Moose and Abdicate say Amen and like this.
  2. I would rather say it as unity in faith rather than unity of faith.
    There are some core truths that are integral to being a saved creature of our Lord.
    But there are differing perspectives. I do not feel threatened when another believer believes from a different viewpoint, or has a different understanding of the meaning of a passage of scripture, much less its application in daily life.
    I rejoice with my brothers of a different congregation, appreciating their love for the Lord as they appreciate mine. That does not mean that I must give ascent to every doctrine held.
    In the end, I know we all see as through a mirror darkly. We will see face to face, but until that time, I rejoice in parallax views.
    JohnP likes this.
  3. Hi Siloam,

    Good thoughts there & very Christ like attitude to others in the Body. Great exhortation for us all.

    Cturtle likes this.
  4. Please allow me to offer my thoughts here. :)

    `till we all come to the unity of faith & the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man,

    The word
    "come" means, "to arrive at a place", and it also means "to meet". The word "unity" means "oneness". As with everything in scripture, and in God's Kingdom it requires faith to operate in this oneness. Jesus gave us his Glory so we could be "one" with him, and with his Father, and also with one another.

    John 17:21.. That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
    John 17:22.. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
    John 17:23.. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
    John 17:24.. Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

    It is very interesting to me that we were not saved in this time based world, or on any date in history, as we were saved before world began!!!

    2Tim 1:8.. Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
    2Tim 1:9.. Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

    This salvation that we had did not do us any good until we heard the Gospel (good news) of our salvation, then believed it, and then we experienced the new birth!!! Not knowing you have something does you no good to have it until you know about and believe it. Of course, being able to "access" what we already have is paramount to being able to experience it. Faith is the key that gives us "access" to what the Lord God has already done and given us from the beginning of the world.

    Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
    Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

    Since we are saved by "grace" alone, it is only by "faith" we have "access" to this salvation which was given to us by grace!!

    The Lord God wants every single Christian to experience what he has done for us when he raised up Jesus Christ from the dead, and at the same time he raised us up also, and has made us sit together in Heavenly places in Christ Jesus. How many Christians do we know who actually experiencing this in their life?
    Are we having visions and revelation of Jesus on a daily basis while sitting on the right hand of God in Christ? Not many if any. Why? Because we do not believe this for a minute even though it has already been done. Not knowing what God has done for you, believing it, and not having "access" to it means we will not experience this in our life!!

    Supposedly the five fold ministry has been given this job so the Church, and every member in it can "arrive at this place of meeting in the oneness of the faith in the Glory of God, and stand with all the other stones of fire where God's Church is being built" The Church is not being built on earth but Mt Zion the city of the living God where God sits enthroned in all of his Glory. As the Book of Hebrews tells us, this is where we were translated to!!!!

    Heb 12:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering,
    Heb 12:23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,
    Heb 12:24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

    Sorry for such a long post. :)
  5. There are those that live life and take the photos. Then there are those that only look at the photos others take. Once someone understands that this also applies to Christianity, then that person will remain a pharisee through and through. One is an intellectual exercise to make one feel good, the other is a heart exercise for His glory and in power. The word of God is filled from Gen 1 to Rev 22 with the power of God. Until the real Christian realizes that this is for them too, they'll remain useless babies. To those that don't even become babies and look at the photos and live in the world, they will have said to them "I never knew you." John 5.
  6. #6 Cturtle, Dec 2, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2015
    Transliteration: henotēs
    Phonetic: hen-ot-ace'
    Strong's Definition: From G1520; oneness, that is, (figuratively) unanimity: - unity.

    Faith....Original: πίστις
    Transliteration: pistis
    Phonetic: pis'-tis
    persuasion, that is,credence ; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especiallyreliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith,

    Transliteration: epignōsis
    Phonetic: ep-ig'-no-sis

    Strong's Definition: From G1921; recognition, that is, (by implication) full discernment, acknowledgement: - (ac-) knowledge (-ing, -ment).


    Transliteration: plērōma
    Phonetic: play'-ro-mah

    Strong's Definition: From G4137; repletion or completion

    The Church has been known for fighting for the last 500 years, until the Catholic church and the Lutheran church has finally signed a treaty of agreement in Luthers favor. That salvation is by or through Jesus alone. Thus unijty has begun and now it is our job to start loving others and living a lifestyle of love as Jesus has commanded.

    Blessings to you

  7. Hi CCW,

    Those are good thoughts concerning the `unity of the Spirit` in the Body of Christ. This we know that God has done by His Holy Spirit. The Spirit places each member in the Body & we are `one` together. Then we are individually made like unto Christ. Then collectively as a Body, we are brought to the `unity of faith`. This is a process by the Holy Spirit over the centuries. Truth is revealed & stood for, often died for, & gradually across the Body others come to believe that truth. Thus the truths of Christ - Saviour, Lord, baptiser, giver of the Holy Spirit & His giftings, His ministry gifts,...all become known & believed but still amid great error. So it is that these great truths are stood for till finally the Body comes to the full understanding of Christ & His purposes.

    That is why we need to be overcomers for it is the truth that grows us, the truth of Christ, (Himself).

    `speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head - Christ -...` (Eph. 4: 15)

  8. As faith comes by hearing and understanding the Word of God .Then to have a unity of the faith .There needs must also be a unity of understanding also.
    But not the sort fo understanding that is by concensus or how the majority understand the scriptures.
    But the understanding of scripture according to the mind of God.
    For while there are many men and then many minds and by that many opinions . There is but one God who has not many minds . and the same Holy Spirit who inspired men to so write the scriptures according to the mind of God .is the same holy Spirit who is so needed to understand what is written according to the mind of God also.
    and while in part it IS the Holy Spirit that leads us "into all truth"
    The scriptures ALSO say that he has given to the church those ministers as listed to bring us all that understanding of scripture.
    For while there are many ministries by the same passage we read there is but ONE Ministry .
    Thus all those ministers who truly called of God are not here to build up their ministry but are rather to do and to labour "in the work of THE ministry"
    To suggest we do not need those ministers and we can all be led by the Holy Spirit in the UNITY of the faith . is contrary to what the scriptures say of it.
    and would also deny the nature of man and all of scripture when we all like sheep go our own way .
    For sheep need a shepherd as a flock needs to be led .
    and as long as a flock does not have a hireling they will as God permits be led by a shepherd or pastor and taught etc.
    The present prevailing idea propagated(sown) that we are all leaders and need not to be led by any one is therefore false .
    Paul said " be followers of me even as I am of Christ "
    That many of Gods people are being misled by hirelings false apostles and self proclaimed prophets shows how the sheep needs a shepherd if only in the negative .
    But it also shows how little of the Word of God is actually preached that they can be so easily deceived.
    But then the scriptures speak of "seductive" spirit . and the flattering message of prosperity and leadership and POWER!!!!!!!!!
    is or can be a very seductive one .

    The unity of the faith then cannot come save by a unity of common understanding .Not by democracy ,concensus but by the Holy Spirit in and through and by the method God has decreed in the way he has decreed in the manner he ahs decreed.
    and if any other ways are tried they will fail.
    But understand this . Not even God demands you blindly follow Him.
    How much less then should we blindly follow any man?
    For we follow God because by the grace of God and the Spirit of God opening the eyes of our understanding to our need did we first call upon the name of the lord and become His disciple .
    So then we should not blindly follow any man . For all those ministers of God will and should lead the people as God has and does lead them. and all who are spiritualy minded will have eyes to see and hear and follow and if they have not God willing He will open their eyes and ears to the fact .
    if any man has a ministry it will find ist place as water finds a route down a mountain. But it will not contradict or counter any other true ministry of God but will be in harmony with it .
    But while an individual may have a ministry his must be subject to the CAUSE of THE ministry .

    in Christ
    Grant Melville likes this.
  9. Sister, I remember you mentioning this scripture in another post.

    Eph 1:9.. Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
    Eph 1:10.. That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

    It appears God's purpose has already been revealed unto us by the fact he has brought together all things in Heaven, and all things on earth into one place, which came about through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. We are not only living in this physical world in fleshly bodies, but we are also living inside Christ who is sitting on the right hand of God in Heaven. My question to you would be. We know for sure that while Jesus Christ living in us is surely well aware of his physical surroundings while living inside us, why are we not fully well aware of our spiritual surrounding while we are living inside him in Heaven?
  10. The unity OF the faith is very different from a unity IN faith.

    For one thing it is a unity of THE faith. that was once for all delivered unto the saints .
    Not a unity IN faith as in any old faith that world now calls the world faiths .
    I am in total dissagrement with ALL what the world calls 'faiths'
    as I am with any who say they are christians who say that all the worlds faiths are basically the same and can or should all be reconciled together in faith .
    You see what I mean?
    The scripture says "OF the faith. " It is never wise] to change scripture to suit our own thinking . But rather change our thinking to suit God .
    THEN we will have a unity of the faith .
    ALL men have faith . For God has given to every man a measure of faith to profit with all .
    Thus even the unsaved have faith and use it every day of their lives .

    I am not a saved OLD creature . I am a new creation all together and thus I am saved .
    A old creature or creation that simply has faith in...................................? " Is still in his sin s and the wrath of God abides on him still"

    It is when we shall see HIM that we shall be like HIM .
    at this point we see HIM as in a glass darkly
    and by that we know not what we shall be but when we see HIM as he is then.......................................

    Doctrines and the Word of God should be seen clearly . and any lack of understanding we should seek to get understanding .
    Not be happy to be unified in all our ignorance?
    Faith in God comes by understanding the Word of God . Not when we dont,
    Thus the unity of the faith comes when we all come to the same understanding see the same thing be of the same mind .what mind ?
    "Let this mind be in you as it was in Christ........................"

    in Christ
  11. Hi Gerald,

    I like what you have written in your post #15 & would like to highlight an important thought -

    This is so true. The Lord Jesus Christ has given of Himself in the five-fold ministries. These we know are not CEO`s of organisations but are working often in out of the way places, often not recognised per say with titles, but their love of the Lord & deep understanding of His character & purposes will come out. Via the internet we have so much access to teachers of the past who brought forth revelation of truth in bit size chunks. Thus the Body if built up by the Holy Spirit with the equipping of the saints through these ministries.

    Grant Melville likes this.
  12. Hi CCW,

    To answer the last part of you question - We know that the Lord Jesus Christ glorified is seated at the right hand of the Father. And by His Holy Spirit He indwells the believer. Although we are seated with Him in heavenly places - righteous position - we have not our glorified bodies to `see` in those places yet.

    Now to the fuller thought, you said -
    If we read the scripture a bit more closely, I see that it says -

    This `fullness of times` will be in the New Heavens & New Earth when `ALL THINGS` will be gathered together under Christ. This is called the restoration of ALL THINGS. A wonderful topic to discuss one day. (Acts 3: 21)

  13. #13 CCW95A, Dec 4, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2015
    Sister, are you saying we first must have a new supernatural body before we can see the Heavenly Kingdom of God where we are now seated? What about Paul praying to God that he would enlighten the eyes of our heart so we could see the hope of his calling? Remember hope that is seen is not hope. Does not the spirit man which is our our new heart have the same senses as our physical body? Paul said that only those who exercise these senses will be given the meat of God's Word.
  14. Hi CCW,

    Yes, I believe we need to have our glorified body to be able to see the unseen, the invisible, to our human eyes. As to Paul praying for our eyes to be enlightened, that is `the eyes of our understanding.....` (Eph. 1: 18) These senses are to discern what is of God & what is not.

    `those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good & evil.` (Heb. 5: 14)

  15. Eph 1:18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

    Marilyn, without "understanding" you can not see anything in the realm of the spirit which is why it says in the same verse "that you might "know" (the word know is the Greek word "eido" which means to see) the hope of his coming". Who is our hope of Glory? Jesus Christ. Besides the Word of God clearly tells us to not look at the things seen, but at the things not seen. How do you do that" By faith. (2 Cor 4:18) The whole purpose for light is to bring life, and vision!!!

    Eph 5:13.. But when anything is exposed by the light, it becomes visible,
    Eph 5:14.. for anything that becomes visible is light. Therefore it says, "Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ will shine on you."
  16. Hi CCW,

    Yes the light of God`s truth brings to light the hidden things, the `unfruitful works of darkness,` (Eph. 5: 11). It is the deeds which are all described earlier in that chapter -

    `fornication, uncleanness, covetousness, filthiness, foolish talking, course jesting...` (Eph 5: 3 & 4)

    When we walk in love by the Holy Spirit, then we are able to discern what is of God & what is of evil. I think we are now talking about the same thing.

    Blessing, Marilyn.
  17. Marilin,

    That is true insofar as we are not to be disembodied via the internet but to be in a body of a church taught and instructed together by a man of God so called of God..
    But by them through the scriptures and by the leading of the Holy Ghost I neither believe nor can accept that ALL of the body will be what is commonly called raptured. But which I think is or should me more accurately called the "translation" of the Bride.
    I do believe that ALL and every true BORN child of God is called to that high calling and is so by the preaching of the Word .of sanctification commitment and obedience and Holiness to God.
    For even as the bride of the first Adam was not taken from the whole body .Nor then will the Bride be taken from the whole church .
    Even as out of all the tribes you had levi whos inheritence was the Lord .
    Even as the bride of Issac the Son was to be taken from "AMONG his brethren"
    Even as out of all the disciples ,Peter ,James and John saw and did things the others did not .Even to the garden of gethsemene when the Lord "took them a little further"

    That the Lord is yet outside the church knocking on its door .
    Is a call to the whole body to repent .But the promise is to" those who have ears to hear ;to THEM............."
    That not all who came out of Egypt (BORNagain) entered into the promise . "2"
    The vast majority did not.
    and as the church takes thr 40 years of wandering in the wilderness as the NORM of a christian life it is not to be surprising that so many do not.
    This I am saying not to condemn or that any might be condemned . But that the church should wake up! from her slumber and if not all then some .
    In Christ
  18. Hi Gerald,

    I do understand & agree with your thought that only those who hear, or who are the overcomers will be raptured. As to their name as a group - well I can only stick to what God`s word says - `till we all come to the unity of the faith & the knowledge of the Son of God, TO A PERFECT MAN, to the measure of the fullness of Christ;...` (Eph. 4: 13)

    I believe that the relationship HEAD to HIS BODY is the closest relationship there is outside the Trinity.


    Abdicate likes this.
  19. Actually did he not say that we might be one as they were one?
    It would therefore be for another post that that unity of the Trinity would be worth exploring.

    in Christ
  20. Hi Gerald,

    I agree, that would be a good topic to discuss, bro.


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