What Is Marriage?

Musicmaster

Musicmaster

Years ago, in my youth, I would have answered this by claiming that those with a license are married.

That's is nothing more than a social/cultural construct. It's the paradigm we've all been raised with.

It wasn't until I began to read the word of God for what it says, and what it does NOT say, for the realization to set in that I was VERY wrong!

Genesis 2:23-24
23 And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

There are three elements by which the Lord defined marriage:

- leave (forsake) father and mother
- cleave (cling, keep close) unto his wife
- become one flesh with her.

Throughout all the rest of scripture, we see not one verse whereby the Lord added to that definition, nor did the Lord speak of His ever having relinquished to mankind and/or his governments the Lord's own sole authority over marriage and its definition. Marriage is one of the items the Lord did not want man to corrupt, as we see happening within governments when they allow perversions to be defined as legal "marriages."

We see, therefore, that marriage is not an emotional tie, or defined under the auspices of romance, handed over to the authority of any earthly government, not defined by pieces of paper from City Hall, lauded as a "Marriage License," nor does the word of God state that the strength of marriage is somehow bolstered by ceremony, vows, exchanges, acknowledgements nor declarations from anyone with a title, be it governmental and/or religious.

This is the one means by which the Lord has kept marriage pure and beautiful. Those couples with some silly piece of paper from City Hall or s state that says they are married, and have not fulfilled the three items from Genesis 2, they are living sexual sin, and many in adultery who were married before, divorced on unbiblical grounds, such as "incompatibility," and remarried...that is adultery, for the Lord does not recognize divorce on any other grounding that that which the Lord allowed.

This may seem harsh to some, and if it does, then please read your Bible, pray about it, and let the Lord give to you His wisdom, or we can discuss this here. I'm not here to analyze anyone's marriage, but rather to speak only what the word of the Lord says and does not say. Many men have abandoned their wives and children, leaving them to fend for themselves, and therefore failing to provide for his wife's raiment and food. The word of God says that a wife is therefore no longer bound, and owes nothing to the wayward husband.

There are thousands, perhaps millions of variations of stories behind failed marriages, and we can't cover them all here. Suffice it to say that some situations may rest solely upon the Lord's own Judgement, where there is no injustice.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
Years ago, in my youth, I would have answered this by claiming that those with a license are married.

That's is nothing more than a social/cultural construct. It's the paradigm we've all been raised with.

It wasn't until I began to read the word of God for what it says, and what it does NOT say, for the realization to set in that I was VERY wrong!

Genesis 2:23-24
23 And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

There are three elements by which the Lord defined marriage:

- leave (forsake) father and mother
- cleave (cling, keep close) unto his wife
- become one flesh with her.

Throughout all the rest of scripture, we see not one verse whereby the Lord added to that definition, nor did the Lord speak of His ever having relinquished to mankind and/or his governments the Lord's own sole authority over marriage and its definition. Marriage is one of the items the Lord did not want man to corrupt, as we see happening within governments when they allow perversions to be defined as legal "marriages."

We see, therefore, that marriage is not an emotional tie, or defined under the auspices of romance, handed over to the authority of any earthly government, not defined by pieces of paper from City Hall, lauded as a "Marriage License," nor does the word of God state that the strength of marriage is somehow bolstered by ceremony, vows, exchanges, acknowledgements nor declarations from anyone with a title, be it governmental and/or religious.

This is the one means by which the Lord has kept marriage pure and beautiful. Those couples with some silly piece of paper from City Hall or s state that says they are married, and have not fulfilled the three items from Genesis 2, they are living sexual sin, and many in adultery who were married before, divorced on unbiblical grounds, such as "incompatibility," and remarried...that is adultery, for the Lord does not recognize divorce on any other grounding that that which the Lord allowed.

This may seem harsh to some, and if it does, then please read your Bible, pray about it, and let the Lord give to you His wisdom, or we can discuss this here. I'm not here to analyze anyone's marriage, but rather to speak only what the word of the Lord says and does not say. Many men have abandoned their wives and children, leaving them to fend for themselves, and therefore failing to provide for his wife's raiment and food. The word of God says that a wife is therefore no longer bound, and owes nothing to the wayward husband.

There are thousands, perhaps millions of variations of stories behind failed marriages, and we can't cover them all here. Suffice it to say that some situations may rest solely upon the Lord's own Judgement, where there is no injustice.

MM
Click to expand...
MM, in addition to what you mentioned, marriage is also the joining together of two families, a serious consideration that a lot of people ignore or forget.
 
i can agree on the marriage union ..but we are told to follow the laws of the land. so question IS do we tell couples to just say the marriage vows no marriage license ? .. every one seems to have opinions but no real answer. i have a couple in my church that would get married if not for losing the medical cards on the kids. i have told them i understand but i feel God would make a way.. so what do i tell them ? repeat after me your married no license something happens to him she doesn't get his s.s .

btw i also realize the author will not see my post :eek:


let add YES there are hundreds of marriages gone wrong. the man walks out no support for the wife or kids . when we as ministers do the marriage ceremony . we cant be watchman over the marriage . i have seen all kinds and this why i do very few ceremonies

i await the answer
 
Hello Musicmaster;

I'd like to share my experience.

In the marriages I have performed, I've met with the couples and conducted premarital sessions prior to getting married. They shared about applying for a marriage license by going to the county clerk's office or official government agency.

Unfortunately, there are times I could not marry a couple for reasons I cannot disclose here and they would go elsewhere to get married. I'm also protected by the California Southern Baptist Convention against any requests to perform same sex marriage.

For the couples who applied for a marriage license (legally allowing a couple to marry) and later a marriage certificate (proving the couple got married,) I do remember hearing that phrase, "a silly piece of paper."

I usually don't pay any mind nor do I remember the couples who said that. What I do know is the court's official document of marriage does not trump God's creation of marriage which is what you are sharing here. This is what I teach in the mix of premarital sessions.

I have witnessed couples (usually the bride) who have cried tears of happiness after I signed their wedding licence or later received their wedding certificates. They would frame and display it in their home.

Right now I'm meeting with a couple who I will marry in May. He's 28 and she is 27 and they are wonderful disciples of Christ. They are on the right track to holy matrimony. We talked about Genesis 2:23-24 and listened to each of them with attentive joy.

God bless you, MM.

Bob
 
bobinfaith said:
I usually don't pay any mind nor do I remember the couples who said that. What I do know is the court's official document of marriage does not trump God's creation of marriage which is what you are sharing here. This is what I teach in the mix of premarital sessions.
Click to expand...

The gist of what I was getting at is that nothing man and his governmental authorities do or say has any bearing upon marriage as God defined it. Licenses and certificates do not do away with any measure of immorality for those who join together into what the Lord says is a fornicative/adulterous relationship. The blanket of those documents and/or declarations by the representative of the government will never make right what the Lord has declared wrong. Not even the full force of any government has the power to redefine marriage in any other way than how God defined it.

Now, granted, governments have the freedom to define "legal" marriage in whatever way those within it want to define that type of union. However, what any government declares as valid doesn't change the moral dynamics of God's absolutes.

I have known couples who divorced on the grounds of incompatibility, both found someone else to marry them, and there they are with their licenses and certificates, thinking that everything is fine for them. That's a serious flaw and fallacy in their minds if they never come to grips with the sins they are swimming in. Some serious thinking needs to be done on all their parts for how the Lord sees these violations of His moral absolutes. Relationship fractures need mending by the Blood, and only the Lord can do that.

I hope nobody thinks that I am saying here that there is no restoration and cleansing for this. No. The problem is that so many never come to grips with the enormity of the sin that was not blocked by some legal maneuver. Their marriages can indeed be cleaned from the past, because returning to a previous spouse after leaving the one they have...the Lord clearly stated that such is an abomination in His Sight.

Thanks, Bob, for your post. I very much appreciate your take on it all.

MM
 
Musicmaster said:
The gist of what I was getting at is that nothing man and his governmental authorities do or say has any bearing upon marriage as God defined it. Licenses and certificates do not do away with any measure of immorality for those who join together into what the Lord says is a fornicative/adulterous relationship. The blanket of those documents and/or declarations by the representative of the government will never make right what the Lord has declared wrong. Not even the full force of any government has the power to redefine marriage in any other way than how God defined it.
Thanks, Bob, for your post. I very much appreciate your take on it all.
MM
Click to expand...

Hello MM;

You're welcome. I can see your passion for this problem and I'm joining you in prayer.

God bless you, brother.

Bob
 
Paul calls marriage a great mystery (foreshadowing?) Christ and his Church...

Ephesians 5:25,31-32 KJV
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
[31] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
[32] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
 
Musicmaster said:
That's some good stuff, brother. Would you elaborate on that for us.

MM
Click to expand...
In previous times, romance was not as important to marriage as familial connections. Even today, in India marriages are frequently arranged by parents of like-minded families while their children are still quite young. The purpose of such marriages is to bind together the two family bloodlines for social, religious, or economic reasons. The surprising fact about these arranged marriages is that quite often the couples in time grow to love each other deeply and form strong familial bonds. In any marriage, arranged or romantic, it is the children who actually accomplish the joining of the two families.
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello MM;

You're welcome. I can see your passion for this problem and I'm joining you in prayer.

God bless you, brother.

Bob
Click to expand...

Isn't it wonderful how God's Ways are the only Ways in so many things in life? I'm conversing with an older, hard-hearted atheist, and he absolutely doesn't like the thought of God, and sees everything through his pragmatic lenses of relegating God to a lower level than man. His thesis is that man can create a far better world for himself than God. He fails miserably to see that what has been going on here on earth is exactly man trying to do things His way independent of God and His Ways.

I don't know if the Lord will be able to use me to crack that cookie, but whatever the outcome, God is still praised and is worthy of all worship.

Amen

MM
 
BibleLover said:
In previous times, romance was not as important to marriage as familial connections. Even today, in India marriages are frequently arranged by parents of like-minded families while their children are still quite young. The purpose of such marriages is to bind together the two family bloodlines for social, religious, or economic reasons. The surprising fact about these arranged marriages is that quite often the couples in time grow to love each other deeply and form strong familial bonds. In any marriage, arranged or romantic, it is the children who actually accomplish the joining of the two families.
Click to expand...

So, even they begin to develop that bond the Lord inspired to be written in Genesis 2. That speaks to the reality of our having been made in His image moreso than social constructs of tradition and cohesion in the arena of economics and familial bonds.

This is indeed interesting, in that the commitment they eventually experience eventually comes along at some point, which then injects the emotional outflow of a commitment that would have started at the very beginning had their values been in line with God's at the very start.

I didn't mean to imply "romance" as the prime motivator in the economy of God's definition of marriage. That's not the case at all. We've all heard that love is a commitment, and so when we look at commitment, we see that it arises primarily from the character of the individuals involved.

Today, most people have been programmed with the idea that love is a feeling. That "feeling" most generally, in reality, is infatuation, which is fickle, and changes in time as does almost all other of our likes and dislikes, some of which change daily, or even hourly.

Thanks for the clarification.

MM
 
paul wrote it best though we have ten thousand instructors /teachers. yet we have not many fathers in the LORD ..aka in today world we have thousands of know it all. but not many that knows the real answer
 
Musicmaster said:
I have known couples who divorced on the grounds of incompatibility, both found someone else to marry them, and there they are with their licenses and certificates, thinking that everything is fine for them. That's a serious flaw and fallacy in their minds if they never come to grips with the sins they are swimming in. Some serious thinking needs to be done on all their parts for how the Lord sees these violations of His moral absolutes. Relationship fractures need mending by the Blood, and only the Lord can do that.

I hope nobody thinks that I am saying here that there is no restoration and cleansing for this. No. The problem is that so many never come to grips with the enormity of the sin that was not blocked by some legal maneuver. Their marriages can indeed be cleaned from the past, because returning to a previous spouse after leaving the one they have...the Lord clearly stated that such is an abomination in His Sight.
Click to expand...
What should one do? It's no good to ask someone to stay in a hate-filled relationship, and it's naive to think all such relationships can be fixed. It's also naive to expect someone to free themselves from a hate-filled relationship and remain forever single when an opportunity for happiness presents itself.
 
Time and time again I have listened to many a sociologist, counselor, pastors, famous speakers, books, commentaries, et al, fussing and haranguing over the issue of the high divorce rates in recent decades, but you know, we don't ever hear very many of them all placing their finger on the root cause (besides the sin nature, of course).

My take on it is the real purpose behind this thread: Far too many people have their eyes set upon the legal, ceremonial, and traditional foundations for marriage rather than the REAL foundation that should serve as the primary grounding for all marriages, and that being God's definition for marriage in Genesis 2.

Putting into perspective the proper priority in who is the REAL authority in defining marriage, couples can then at least have their eyes diverted away from the unstable items that so many marriages are constructed upon. The governmental system is actually less stable than sand. It's like trying to step over a cliff edge into thin air, expecting for there to be something out there in thin air to build upon.

Even God's definition will not, in this fallen world among fallen humanity, keep many from divorcing. The bottom line is that most divorces are perpetrated on the basis of unscriptural grounding, and so categorically falls well within the bounds of sin.

There are literally thousands of scenarios we could throw into the mix of discussions, most of which would lead only to distraction rather than to remember the Lord's sentiments toward divorce. Yes, there are abusers out there of all kinds, and they will stand before the Creator dare they go to their graves apart from the washing of the Blood of Christ.

From my experience, the only relationships that cannot be fixed are those involving at least one hard heart fixated on self. It takes great humility to confess the guilt that arises from serious trouble in a marriage, and our flesh works hard against any and all expressions of contriteness. What do those people do when they find themselves in a relationship with one who has chosen the path of hard-heartedness?

That is where the wisdom of the Lord must be brought to bare by the one who is before the Lord, seeking Him for His answers. Any one of us can throw out there crass and fleshly judgements as to what others should do in the plethora of hypotheticals, but restoration is possible in almost every case if the two hearts are willing to turn away from their fleshly pride, admit wrongs, and move forward with a willingness to reconcile. When that is not in operation in the hearts of both in a marriage, then it's a hard road.

Having said that, let's hit on one other problem...I also have encountered those who were just chomping at the bit to get out of their marriage, waiting for that tiniest of pins to drop whereby then can point a finger of accusation, and off they go like a race horse to the divorce lawyer to start proceedings for divorce. That speaks to another issue of the flesh that leads to certain sin in the heart. Those are the types who were on the verge of divorcing on the basis of "incompatibility." That is clearly the lack of any real commitment from the start, which is typical of the majority of marriages rooted in the Hollywoodesque swine pit of relational dysfunctionalities.

I hope that answers your question, LtLG.

MM
 
LearningToLetGo said:
What should one do? It's no good to ask someone to stay in a hate-filled relationship, and it's naive to think all such relationships can be fixed. It's also naive to expect someone to free themselves from a hate-filled relationship and remain forever single when an opportunity for happiness presents itself.
Click to expand...

Hello LearningToLetGo;

What you posted is a difficult challenge. Marriage is difficult but those who love God and follow Him, every marriage relationship is reconcilable.

In an extremely difficult marriage that has no consoling hope, humans with good intentions arrive at, "it's naive to think that all (marriage) relationships cannot be fixed. It would be better to be single and happy than married with hate becomes an understanding of themselves, instead of acknowledging Him in all their ways."

I have lived both sides of this proverb, if you will. I created and defined marriage when I made the choice of who I would spend the rest of my life with. In the center of all the chaos (that she and I created,) I realized God created marriage so who better to go to than our Author?

Her circumstances as well as mine were many. But after sifting through all the negative, we looked at one glimmer of positive and this brought us to our senses. Above all, we still had a hint of love for each other but our stars were crossed and we couldn't fix our many problems.

We spoke to our Pastor, (or Pastors,) who referred us to a licensed Christian marriage counselor. This process was a pain but through prayer, God got us both past our ways, pride, stubbornness and protecting our personal selves. Instead, we acknowledged the foundation of our love for each other, confessed our darkest, imbedded anger, hatred, bitterness, selfishness, rebellion and instead focused to work as a husband wife partnering in all things.

We've been to marriage counseling two times while in our early 40s and 60s in a span of 39 years. When we were finally cut loose from our counselor we started to slowly pick up the pieces. We got out of God's Way and asked Him to guide us by reminding us why we got married in the first place.

New circumstances in life led us to partner as a team, manage our decisions together and bring resolve. All this actually bonded us and brought our love from deep inside to the surface. This made us realize we could exist as husband and wife.

Those things from the past are behind us. Aside from my ministry, we are retired and are facing new challenges in our marriage but with God's guidance we are in a much better place.

I don't know if this helps, LearningToLetGo, but at one time I could identify with what you posted. Marriage is hard work. But all who are married must have faith and trust the Creator of marriage who also provides the benefits that come with being a husband and wife, and His reconciliation through all things.

God bless you, brother.

Bob
 
LearningToLetGo said:
I appreciate your words, but unfortunately 'try harder' (my words, not yours) doesn't quite do the trick. To those fortunate enough to never divorce, I salute you, and to those who have, you have my sympathy.
Click to expand...

Actually, I wouldn't recommend that anyone try harder, because you're right. It doesn't work so well in the end. You see, I point troubled couples to God's definition for marriage, and let Holy Spirit do the rest of the work in transforming the hearts of the couple. Mere words from me, I never consider them to be adequate. No. It's all about the transforming power of the Word, the Way and the Truth. I've had the greatest success when I make it all about Christ rather than my counseling skills.

As it is written, I must decrease that He may increase.

Amen

MM
 
LearningToLetGo said:
I appreciate your words, but unfortunately 'try harder' (my words, not yours) doesn't quite do the trick. To those fortunate enough to never divorce, I salute you, and to those who have, you have my sympathy.
Click to expand...

I am divorced. Was divorced against my will essentially, but God has turned it into a good thing! I am a much happier person not in a marriage with my ex-wife and I am no longer depressed or on medications for depression.

God also brought to my life a wonderful woman. We are engaged to be married. I have never had a relationship like this before. We don't tear each other down, we build each other up. We encourage each other. Not saying we don't argue, but when we do, it's a fair argument. I can see the difference when God brings to people together and when he doesn't. The former being my relationship now and the later my previous marriage.

My ex-wife? She is remarried and still doesn't seem to be happy.
 
Musicmaster said:
Years ago, in my youth, I would have answered this by claiming that those with a license are married.

That's is nothing more than a social/cultural construct. It's the paradigm we've all been raised with.

It wasn't until I began to read the word of God for what it says, and what it does NOT say, for the realization to set in that I was VERY wrong!

Genesis 2:23-24
23 And Adam said, This [is] now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

There are three elements by which the Lord defined marriage:

- leave (forsake) father and mother
- cleave (cling, keep close) unto his wife
- become one flesh with her.

Throughout all the rest of scripture, we see not one verse whereby the Lord added to that definition, nor did the Lord speak of His ever having relinquished to mankind and/or his governments the Lord's own sole authority over marriage and its definition. Marriage is one of the items the Lord did not want man to corrupt, as we see happening within governments when they allow perversions to be defined as legal "marriages."

We see, therefore, that marriage is not an emotional tie, or defined under the auspices of romance, handed over to the authority of any earthly government, not defined by pieces of paper from City Hall, lauded as a "Marriage License," nor does the word of God state that the strength of marriage is somehow bolstered by ceremony, vows, exchanges, acknowledgements nor declarations from anyone with a title, be it governmental and/or religious.

This is the one means by which the Lord has kept marriage pure and beautiful. Those couples with some silly piece of paper from City Hall or s state that says they are married, and have not fulfilled the three items from Genesis 2, they are living sexual sin, and many in adultery who were married before, divorced on unbiblical grounds, such as "incompatibility," and remarried...that is adultery, for the Lord does not recognize divorce on any other grounding that that which the Lord allowed.

This may seem harsh to some, and if it does, then please read your Bible, pray about it, and let the Lord give to you His wisdom, or we can discuss this here. I'm not here to analyze anyone's marriage, but rather to speak only what the word of the Lord says and does not say. Many men have abandoned their wives and children, leaving them to fend for themselves, and therefore failing to provide for his wife's raiment and food. The word of God says that a wife is therefore no longer bound, and owes nothing to the wayward husband.

There are thousands, perhaps millions of variations of stories behind failed marriages, and we can't cover them all here. Suffice it to say that some situations may rest solely upon the Lord's own Judgement, where there is no injustice.

MM
Click to expand...
These are all nice thoughts. But there be a few things to consider. Firstly some 60 yrs ago you required only one bread winner the husband who easily provided for a entire family and with the wife permanently a home maker as the central point for the entire family unit at home. That has all changed now wether by hook or nook by such organisations as the Rockafella foundation and other government policy makers who firmly endorse having both husband & wife out working. This was made possible by raising the cost of living in so many areas that it makes it almost impossible for a one income family to provide for a family unit . And of course the added stresses to a marriage speak for themselves from these policies as we look upon a society that is hell bent on undermining the ancient concept of marriage and traditional family values. Yes be many variations unto why marriages fail. But there also those with a agenda to make sure many fail from the reasons mentioned above.
 
LearningToLetGo said:
I appreciate your words, but unfortunately 'try harder' (my words, not yours) doesn't quite do the trick. To those fortunate enough to never divorce, I salute you, and to those who have, you have my sympathy.
Click to expand...
divorce is a ugly thing that leaves scars and some marriages was probably never meant to be . to many jump on the band wag of conclusions of why and what.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top