What Is Hell?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by tara smith, Jan 18, 2014.

  1. I know the Bible has many descriptions of what hell is like, but I'm having a hard time understanding what it actually is..?
    I get that it is eternal separation from God and eternal punishment.

    But does that mean complete destruction..? Will one cease to exist and therefore be separated from God?

    Or is hell a place where one suffers physical or spiritual torture for eternity?
  2. L'enfer, c'est les Aurtres! Hell is the Other.
  3. Mar_3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

    If you Cease to exist, then Jesus was Wrong here......... Jesus was not wrong.

    And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

    Jesus saw Abraham in a Part of Hell, what he saw was so clear, He even quoted what Abraham said.

    Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    Hell contains everlasting fire, originally made for the devil and his angels.

    Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
    Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name

    Those that suffered the judgement and wrath of God will be tormented with fire and brimstone and shall have no rest.
    For ever and ever the scripture says. The Greek says Ies Aion Aion.............. Age upon age upon age with no end.

    Don't buy into campfires that burn trash, nor fables made by the foolish. Hell is real, and it's eternal. You will have some That twist language to their own hurt and ignorance in attempt to remove eternal punishment. The concept is there and clear.

  4. I have been a believer in apocatastasis, along with Origen and Hans von Urs Balthasar, for a very long time. I have never been convinced that the Greek word αιωνιον means "eternal".
  5. If that is the case then you need to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior.

    Mat 25:46
    And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

    I also gave you in the WORD the Greek expression for age unending, used that way only by John writing Revelation. Eis Aion Aion.

    Since you don't believe Anionios means Eternal then you don't believe in Eternal life with Jesus, so take my advice and give your life to the Lord today. In Jesus we have Anionios life (Eternal) Also.

    Anionios is a Greek Adjective............ It stands on it's own or defined in the Article. On it's own it continues without stopping, unless defined. You should do a bit more research. All Greek Adjectives are like this and why the Holy Spirit used it for Eternal life with Jesus.

    Phm 1:15
    For perhaps he therefore departed for a season, that thou shouldest receive him for ever (aionios);

    Here they were instructed to receive Onesimus For as long as they could, or possibly the end of Season. In this case Aionios is told how long to wait.

    Keep painting the building aionious until I return........... (Here you paint until I get back)

    Anionios has no beginning or end. It just continues and used in the Greek article to be defined. Unless defined it's perpetual. It's root is Aion which has a start and end age, or a defined period of time, most likely from aei which should continue forever but the process repeated over.

  6. I have already accepted Christ Jesus as my Lord and Savior. Christ is my life and my salvation. I merely tend to believe that the Greek word αιωνιος is properly translated as "eonian" or as an indefinite period of time. I am not convinced by counterarguments, especially when the root word αιων is the Septuagint translation for the Hebrew עולם.

    Though, I am curious as to why you think my believing in apocatastasis means that I am not a real Christian? This seems to be a common trend among those who are not Universalists. Why cannot we have a respectful discussion on the issue without people doubting our faith in God?
  7. #7 ixoye_8, Jan 18, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
    let me help you with that ..
    Mat 18:8 reads ..
    αἰώνιος or aiōnios = eternal
    πῦρ or pyr = fire

    Mat 19:16 reads ..
    αἰώνιος or aiōnios = eternal
    ζωή or zōē = life

    therefore if hell is not eternal, neither is heaven ..

    yes .. αἰώνιος is properly transliterated as aiōnios = eternal
    BTW: ς is transliterated as an "s" not an "n" ..

    KingJ and MichaelH say Amen and like this.
  8. Christians believe in Eternal life....... if Anionios is not a Greek Adjective, and not perpetual in your book, then you don't believe in Eternal life. We don't pick and choose what we want to believe in the Word. If you want to erase Eternal punishment, they you also by default have to erase eternal life with God because that is the same Word the Holy Spirit used.

    Scripture was sent to correct us, The Word of God is consistent with no contradictions.

    To say the Greek is related to Hebrew like Messiah and Christ (Both mean something slightly different) and is pulling straws and to say a Adverb means the same as a Adjective or the Male noun Aion is being self deceived.

    Your learning arguments from unlearned people that don't like the idea of Hell eternal.

    Eternal Life in Christ not only represents a time, but the quality of the time with Christ. Same with Eternal punishment in Hell.

    No eternal punishment, No eternal life................ As believers we don't pick and choose what we want, you can't have one and not the other. I already told you what a Greek Adjective was and gave examples of it's use. I suggest you stop following those that are to your hurt as you can't be saved if you don't believe in Eternal life.

    If you don't like the fact the Holy Spirit used Eternal Aionios for Life in Jesus as He did for Hell, then go take it up with him.
  9. amen ..
    a few things I've noticed of the verses concerning the torment of Hell ..

    1 fire (Mat 3:10, Mat 3:12, Mat 7:19, Mat 13:40, Mat 13:42, Mat 13:50, Mat 18:8, Mat 25:41, Mar 9:43, Mar 9:44, Mar 9:46, Mar 9:48, Luk 3:9, Luk 3:17, Jhn 15:6, Hbr 10:27, Jud 1:7, Rev 20:10, Rev 20:14, Rev 20:15)
    2a eternal (Mat 18:8, Mat 25:41, Mat 25:46, 2Th 1:9, Hbr 6:2, Jud 1:7, Hbr 6:2, Jud 1:7)
    2b forever (Jud 1:13, Rev 14:11, Rev 20:10)
    3 brimstone as the fires fuel (Rev 14:10, Rev 19:20, Rev 21:8)
    4 smoke from those thrown in (Rev 14:11)
    5 bound & bound hands and feet (Mat 13:30 & Mat 22:13)
    6 gnash their teeth (Mat 8:12, Mat 13:42, Mat 13:50, Mat 22:13, Mat 24:51, Mat 25:30, Luk 13:28)
    7 weeping (Mat 8:12, Mat 13:42, Mat 13:50, Mat 22:13, Mat 24:51, Mat 25:30, Luk 13:28)
    8 outer darkness (Mat 8:12, Mat 22:13, Mat 25:30, Jud 1:13)
    9 cut into pieces (Mat 24:51)

    note: Mat 24:51 seems to indicate different torments in Hell ..
    note: as you see in Mar 9:44, Mar 9:46 Mar 9:48 your soul will live forever and not die

    and the most interesting description seems to come from the OT ..
    it seems that the fire of Hell is freezing, and burns like a frost bite ..

    Isa 47:13 “You are wearied with your many counsels; Let now the astrologers, Those who prophesy by the stars, Those who predict by the new moons, Stand up and save you from what will come upon you.
    Isa 47:14 “Behold, they have become like stubble, Fire burns them; They cannot deliver themselves from the power of the flame; There will be no coal to warm by Nor a fire to sit before!
    Isa 47:15
    “So have those become to you with whom you have labored, Who have trafficked with you from your youth; Each has wandered in his own way; There is none to save you.
  10. #10 John Ryan, Jan 18, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2014
    Yes, it has been a while since I have had a universalist debate and I think I was typing up the dative form which ends with an "ν".

    You create a false if and only if between eternal life and eternal damnation. It is quite manifest from passages such as I Corinthians XV that life triumphs over Death. Christ has triumphed and defeated Death through His Resurrection.

    I am going to leave this discussion now, because you are becoming angry and combative. Just call me a disciple of Clement of Alexandria.
  11. Different torments? Strange you mention this, I have not seen a scripture reference until you gave it now. Mary K Baxter who claims Jesus showed her hell talked about different levels of torment or different places in Hell with more hellish conditions. None of it was pleasant. I have read her book several times and don't discredit her and find it pretty interesting. I would not teach it of course or make a doctrine out of her experience with Jesus but she seems believable enough to me.

    She was told by the Lord to offer her experience for free so everything can be read (Or watched) here for free.


    I say it's interesting, if not possible true. I did not detect that she was telling things that herself did not fully believe as happening.
  12. #12 ixoye_8, Jan 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2014
    indeed .. and according to Apostle John in the Book of Revelations (Rev 20:14) after the 2nd generation period, Hades (the waiting place before Judgement Day) and the 1st Death (physical) are thrown into Hell which is the Eternal 2nd Death (spiritual)(Rev 21:8) ..

    spiritual Life does triumph over both physical and spiritual Death (1st & 2nd Death) IF you gain salvation, but that in NO WAY means the spiritual 2nd Death is not eternal .. it means your "triumph" is not being a part of that 2nd Death ..

    the obvious error is this .. if Hell is not eternal, then the 1st Death (physical) and Hades (the waiting place before Judgement Day) both are redeemed as well .. thus the triumph over the 1st Death (physical) is not a triumph at all but a temporary reprieve .. and the imperishable once again will put on the perishable (become human again) which means that the 1st Death (physical) will once again reign .. and that creates a vicious never ending cycle of redemption and need for redemption ..

    BTW: did you know Titus Flavius Clemens (aka Clement of Alexandria) believed in a trinity doctrine, and also was the father of the "purgatory doctrine" to which that is what the RCC calls Hades not Hell ???
  13. Hell is: separation from God-prepared for Satan and his minions; unfortunately many human souls will choose to go there to by denying the LORD.
  14. I think the clearest illustration is Jesus' story of Lazarus and the Rich man of Luke 16. In particular the verse:

    "In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side." Luke 16:23

    There you'll note the man was conscious and experiencing torment.

    In Matt 18 Jesus describes it as "torture".

    In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart." Mt 18:34,35

    The Bible does associate such a state as "eternal" as others have noted, and there is no clear indication otherwise in the Bible. There are those who advocate an annihilation theory and those like Rob Bell who hold a universalist view point that such a state is only temporary - essentially like the Catholic purgatory idea, the Bible doesn't clearly support those theories.

    The "triumph" Jesus offers - the salvation from such a fate - the Bible clearly refers to as exclusive to believers in Christ. The gospel offers no salvation apart from faith in Christ.
  15. Since I am Roman Catholic, I am a trinitarian and a believer in purgatory.
  16. Why? I am curious because I do not know the doctrine equated with this idea; please don't think I am being derogatory....
  17. A man is appointed to die once then judgement............ That is scripture!!!!

    A man is not appointed to die, then get moved to a place by which they improve. That is not scriptural.

    Sticking with scripture is better for us.
  18. #18 John Ryan, Jan 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2014
    Why do I believe in purgatory? I am not sure what you are asking.

    Sticking with the Sacred Tradition of the Church is better for us. You make claims about Scripture, but you give me no reason for me to take them seriously. Catholic theology teaches a particular judgment upon death and a general judgment at the consummation of the ages. Upon death a person can either be granted entrance to Heaven, have to go to Purgatory before being moved to Heaven or be damned to Hades. I fail to see how this is unscriptural.
  19. I quoted you the scripture, I did not write it or make any claim. However there is a more serious problem if any thing in your life would be more important than scriptures or carry more authority.

    If you don't believe on ONE scripture as being true (As each given by the Lord through the Holy Spirit) then there can be no faith in even the Salvation scriptures and your then only saved in your mind by human mental assessment. It takes faith to be born again, not unbelief that any scripture is not all authority over all things.... even a church.
  20. #20 John Ryan, Jan 19, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2014
    Nothing I have written is contrary to Hebrew 9:27.

    And is this a new form of Protestantism that I have to belief in the abstract Bible of Protestantism rather than in Christ Jesus? Do I have to worship the Bible and pray for it to save me from my sins?

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