What I learned from this girl...

Discussion in 'College and Youth' started by Pamela, Jan 25, 2008.

  1. What I learned from this girl...

    So we had a test on Astronomy and zodiacs and all and this one girl told me that it was against God's word to read horoscopes and stuff. She said that God forbid to tell fortune, do magic and stuff like that.

    She didn't even want to listen to the story of the teacher, who was just teaching us how horoscopes are made. He wasn't telling us that it's true or anything, just the way they're made.

    Then I asked her that we should live the rules that are in the bible. Telling fortune is wrong and horoscopes are too.

    Then I asked her if incest was right and she said no of course it's not. But I still don't have the right answer! Because God created Adam and Eva and they were to populate the world. If they got a son and/or a girl, it means that it's family that has to make new kids and so incest would be right. Can anyone explain that to me?

    Also, was she being resonable for just storming out when the teacher taught us about how horoscopes are made?

    thank you :)
  2. There is some controversy, even around here, about the first days of creation, so I'm going to NOT make an attempt to answer that at the moment.

    However, I would like to know one important thing...which class was it? I think it's a bit odd for horoscopes and astronomy to come up in school. The only really valid reason I can see for that is a study of statistics or analysis.
  3. No it was a class in Holland called general nature sciences where we basically learn about the basic science and Astronomy is a part of is
  4. Hmmm...Well...astronomy is fine. The only issue is the part where we jump into astronomy. Even the, I can see where it would get a "mention", or even light discussion. Anything more than that, is inappropriate in school IMO. Though, it may be different in Holland than it is here.

    It would be a bit of a judgment call for me. I would really like to hear where they come up with their data, but that's because I'm very knowledge driven. But, it's also important I think to NOT attempt to divine anything about the future or anything like that. If she felt convicted to leave, I definitely wouldn't harass her about it.
  5. No I'm not harassing her, I just don't understand it. It was not like he was telling us to believe it.

    He was just telling us they take the average of our birht-horoscopes, which are like the tenth of the month and they pick a couple of planets that people want to hear about, like love, career, emotions, money etc. and they compare the positions of them from like 12 o 'clock today with the average birth-horoscope. Then they just clip on an average message that is very vage and there you have your horoscope. It's not even near right, because they should take ALL of the planets and not just a selection to get it somewhere near being a little right.
  6. I know there there are things in this world, I feel like I HAVE to avoid, because they are a weakness to me. However, I don't expect everyone to follow my same convictions on these things. And sometimes, doing "just enough" to get into heaven isn't nearly "enough".

    So, while I don't think I would have left myself, I kinda feel like I can admire her for standing up to her own convictions and not being worried about what other people think or the consequences of it all. Though, if she did it just to make a scene or something, that's another story.
  7. Yeah I see what you're saying, but she was playing with her phone and when the teacher told her that if she didn't like it she could leave she did. So maybe it was both, to make a scene and because it was against her beliefs

    What kinda things do you avoid then?
  8. Alcohol, because I'm still sXe after all these years, and I try to avoid a blonde girl that I think is trying to eat my soul. I'm sure there are more things, but those are what came to my mind.
  9. My opinion :) ... not speaking for the others... There are varied opinions on this subject...from those more learned...

    Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make human beings[b] in our image, to be like us. They will reign over the fish in the sea, the birds in the sky, the livestock, all the wild animals on the earth, and the small animals that scurry along the ground.”
    27 So God created human beings[c] in his own image.
    In the image of God he created them;
    male and female he created them.

    Genesis 2

    Then the Lord God formed the man from the dust of the ground. He breathed the breath of life into the man’s nostrils, and the man became a living person.

    8 Then the Lord God planted a garden in Eden in the east, and there he placed the man he had made. 9 The Lord God made all sorts of trees grow up from the ground—trees that were beautiful and that produced delicious fruit. In the middle of the garden he placed the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

    I believe Chapter 1 is speaking of the creation of mankind in general...

    Chapter 2 speaks specifically of only 1 man Adam who God says, He placed Adam in a specific location, Eden, and personally breathed HIs life into Adams nostrils...

    This is mentioned again in the New Testament, after the resurrection of Christ were it says He breathed on His Apostles and said, Recieve the Holy Spirit...

    Incest, I don't think there was any ...

    13 Cain replied to the Lord, “My punishment[d] is too great for me to bear! 14 You have banished me from the land and from your presence; you have made me a homeless wanderer. Anyone who finds me will kill me!”
    15 The Lord replied, “No, for I will give a sevenfold punishment to anyone who kills you.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain to warn anyone who might try to kill him. 16 So Cain left the Lord’s presence and settled in the land of Nod,[e] east of Eden. The Descendants of Cain

    17 Cain had sexual relations with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Then Cain founded a city, which he named Enoch, after his son. 18

    This theory answers whose Cain wife was and those who Cain was fearful would kill him...Since from Adam and Eve scripture reports at that time there were only 3 ... Adam, Eve and Cain...

    However, if there were other humans in the world already, Cain could also build his city Enoch...
  10. Genesis 5:4
    And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters

    It's apparant that Adam had more children than just Abel, Cain, and Seth. Adam lived 930 years! In theory, he could have had up to 400 children of varying ages (Seth at 130, one child every other year afterward over 800 years is 400). And incest wasn't expressly forbidden, as far as I know, until the Law of Moses, more specifically, Leviticus 18. Before that, I can think of nothing that forbade brother-sister relations. After all, Sarai was Abram's half-sister.

    And as for horoscopes, they are wrong because you are trusting your future to mere things, the sun, moon and stars. At some point in history someone thought that this group of stars looked like a bear, etc. That's your history of constellations in a nutshell. Anyway, it is wrong to place our trust in things. The thing has no power to either predist or cause some future event. Only God knows. To trust a horoscope- or any fortune-telling at all- is to say that you do not trust God's providence.
  11. Just a reminder for those who have forgotten...

    When Cain was banished from the Garden - he went east to the land of Nod and took a wife. Where did she come from???

    This may spark some interesting comments, but the study links below are factual studies on the topic based upon solid scriptural translation from both Hebrew and 'street' Greek. I am ONLY presenting these for those persons who may wish to consider this as what probably happened in the Garden and why. It is a starting point for independent research and is being supplied for that purpose only. If anyone has questions about this, please direct those questions to the owner of the website which contains these studies...

    Garden of Eden Bible Study

    Adam and Eve Frequently Asked Bible Questions

    Parable of the Tares Bible Study

    Three World Ages Bible Study

    Rebellion of Satan Bible Study
  12. The reasons against incest are beyond Biblical. Modern science has shown many of the Biblical laws to be sound. If I did not believe in God, I might find it amazing at how these early people could create a set of laws without the scientific knowledge that we have today which would support these laws.

    In many countries today, as close as first cousins are allowed to marry. In some countries it is quite common for first cousins to marry, primarily to maintain the wealth within the family. I do not know of any country which allows brothers and sisters to marry.

    Research has found evidence that humans actually have a natural aversion to brother-sister incest. It is innate, not learned.

    Another problem that arises from incest is that it causes social dysfunction in families. It disrupts the family unit. It can cause emotional and psychological problems.

    Incest also increases the risk for undesirable genes to be passed along. These might be genes that cause physical defect, disease, or even psychological disorders. You can see the effects of these in populations where it has been common to marry within a community for many generations. There are certain genetic disorders that are common to Ashkenazi Jews, Amish, etc. Ashkenazi Jews undergo genetic screening and counseling prior to marrying in modern times, because of how frequent certain disorders are passed along. In certain places in Finland where population have intermixed, you find higher than average rates of schizophrenia. Suppose you have a recessive genetic trait for a disease. In a large gene pool with a variety of people, the odds are small that the random individual chosen would also share that same recessive trait. If you narrow the gene pool and marry only within families for several generations, then the odds become extremely high that you will select an individual who carries the recessive trait.

    From a Biblical perspective, we do find cases early on in the Bible where incestuous marriages occurred. I believe that these were allowed early on in order to populate the earth-- be fruitful and multiply. Once populated, the door closed. There are a couple of theories that I have heard..... 1) Adam and Eve may have had enough genetic variation within them that their offspring were very much genetically different. 2) After the tower of Babel, when the languages were confused, people spread out across the earth and through adaptation acquired a great variety of genes (i.e. became the various races and peoples, as they grouped together by language and spread out across the earth.) Whichever of the two theories that you want to believe, or any other theory not mentioned, it really doesn't matter. The main point is that back then, even within communities, was a much greater genetic variation then we see today in isolated communities.

    In modern science, we know that siblings share approximately 50% of their DNA. Additionally, the actual number of genes that are in the human body is unknown, but it is thought to be somewhere around 30,000. According to a book by Ridley (2003) it would take just 33 genes, each coming in two different varieties (on and off, for example) to make every human in the world unique.

    So, in addition to incest being against Biblical laws, there are other negative effects that arise from it. These affects may be genetic, social, and/or psychological.

    I will provide some references and links if anyone wants to study more independently. As a side note, I have not read, nor studied through any of the links below. I have read the Ridley book. Everything I wrote comes from prior learning and research. I can not account for what is said in the following links. I only googled a few random links associated with what I was saying. This list is by far NOT comprehensive in nature, nor does it cover all of the topics I discussed.

    Chicago Center for Jewish Genetics Disorders - About Jewish Genetic Disorders

    Ridley, M. (2003). Nature Via Nurture. Harper Collins Publishers: New York.

    Amish disorders:

    Genetic Disorders Hit Amish Hard, Centuries Of Intermarriage Make Rare Diseases More Likely - CBS News

    Wiley InterScience :: Session Cookies

    News in Science - Scientists explain why incest revolts us - 15/02/2007

  13. I know that after Seth was born other children followed, but I was speaking of before Seth... Seth was not born until after Cain left...:D

    I agree about horoscopes though... There is a detail teaching on that through James Kennedy. However I must admit I have been shocked at the amount of pro-fessing christians that are in to these worldly beliefs
  14. Hey! I knew a guy once whose mother used to write the horoscopes!! She told him she just made stuff up out of her head, and people based thier lives on them![​IMG]
  15. Why not? It's better than basing your life on something that's demonically influenced.
  16. Astronomy is the study of the heavens, that is fine. Constellations are groups of stars that have been used for thousands of years by shepards and sailors to find their way- no problems there either. Devining the future thru occult practice now that is a problem and is defintely against the Word of God.
  17. I don't think it hurts to find out what other ideas are or where they come from. If you find that you feel it does, then it would be your obligation to drop the class, I suppose. (Though I admit that doesn't really help you solve the current problem...)
  18. I believe it is incest now, only because our blood line is so "polluted" at this point, that if we do have a child from our own father, we could possibly get a developmentally disabled child. Polluted meaning thinned down because of having such mixed blood at this point in history.

    It's obvious that if Adam and Eve were the only humans on earth, Adam would have had to have sex with his own daughter. It would have been the only way to populate the earth.

    As far as "horror" scopes go, I used to read them in the paper every day. And I'd either be frightened or confident that something spectacular was going to happen. I'd anticipate my future to hold exactly as they said, not knowing that it was derived from such as you said.

    I had not heard, though, that Christians should not rely on them until now. It seems from this thread that most of them are against all similar things. But, from my experience, including the wigi (sp?) board, it is all uneccesary fear that you let into your life if you entertain it. I know Holland is a lot more liberal in their school system, and has been for a long time.
  19. God made men and women.plural.
  20. In the Shaker Religion, we're taught to stay away from all things magical and mystical. Tarots, fortune-tellers, crystal balls, ouija boards, so on. Those things I can handle. Other things are wizards, witches, genies and such.

    But we're also told to stay away from things that distract: movies, radio, TV, books (other than Christian-based). Those are the things that I can't handle, and I personally feel like they can be used constructively when not abused.

    Of course, drugs are out: Alcohol, cigarettes, etc. It's okay to take medicine prescribed by a doctor and such. I smoke cigarettes and that's a habit that I'm going to end one day. I started smoking when I was 15 and I dread ever having started.

    For the longest time, I was fascinated with the artwork of Ancient Egypt. My anthropology professor in college passed around an old coin that she found in a dig and when I touched it something in me just leaped! Whose coin was it? How did they make it? What was it last used for? A passion started burning inside of me to learn more. I almost didn't want to give the coin back to her!

    I started collected Egyptian artifacts. I had an "Egyptian Room" at home and it was crammed! Little statues, papyrus, etc. I didn't bow down to worship these things, it was just a collection and I appreciated the artwork and detail.

    My aunt, a strong Shaker from Washington, came to visit me and she warned me about these things. They were considered gods by the Ancient Egyptians, they were graven images. She kindly explained to me the danger that I had in my house.

    It was hard...after years of collected and searching to find these items, I was proud of my little museum. It was so hard! But I'm getting rid of these items. Instead, I'm filling this room now with photos of loved ones.

    My point is - sometimes we're told to stay away from something. But it's hard to do. Very hard! I know I like to justify my reasons for smoking, but it doesn't make what I'm doing to my body right. My collection of Egyptian artwork was only art, I said. I didn't worship those things or consider them as gods...but other people did. I was in danger.

    Doing the right thing is sometimes hard to do. But doing the wrong thing can separate us from God, and that's going to hurt us worse in the end.

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