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Web Evangelism

Discussion in 'New Members Welcome' started by Jacoj, Jun 24, 2013.


Is the old testament still valid in 2013.

  1. Yes

    3 vote(s)
  2. No

    0 vote(s)
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. I enjoy interacting with other Christians on biblical topics and to encourage others. Maybe I can encourage someone what I've been through myself on my way back to Jesus.
  2. Jacoj: Sounds great; on these forums Christians can encourage each other. Blessings.
  3. Thank you farouk. I am still learning how to use the forum seeing that it is my first time being part of something like this.
  4. Jacoj: I'll see you around, no doubt; I started a few threads myself. Blessings.
  5. Staring in the first Gospel of Matthew:

    Matthew 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

    Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

    Matthew 4:7 Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

    Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    Matthew 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

    Matthew 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

    Matthew 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.

    Matthew 9:27 And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou son of David, have mercy on us.

    Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

    Matthew10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

    Matthew 11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.

    Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
    24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

    Matthew 12:3 But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him;

    Matthew 12:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

    Matthew 12:23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?

    Matthew 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
    40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
    41 The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here.
    42 The queen of the south shall rise up in the judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: for she came from the uttermost parts of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and, behold, a greater than Solomon is here.

    Matthew 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

    Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

    Matthew 15:1Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
    2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
    3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
    4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
    5 But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;
    6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.
    7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
    8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
    Matthew15:31 Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see: and they glorified the God of Israel.

    Matthew 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.

    Matthew 17:3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
    4 Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
    Matthew 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
    11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
    12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
    Matthew19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,

    Matthew 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

    Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    Matthew 20:30 And, behold, two blind men sitting by the way side, when they heard that Jesus passed by, cried out, saying, Have mercy on us, O Lord, thou son of David.

    Matthew 21:4 All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
    5 Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ass, and a colt the foal of an ass.
    Matthew 21:9 And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest.

    Matthew 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.

    Matthew 21:15 And when the chief priests and scribes saw the wonderful things that he did, and the children crying in the temple, and saying, Hosanna to the son of David; they were sore displeased,

    Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?

    Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

    Matthew 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
    32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

    Matthew 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
    37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    38 This is the first and great commandment.
    39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
    41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
    42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
    43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
    44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
    45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
    46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

    I would say the Old Testament is still relevant according to Christ.
  6. Valid and relevant, yes, and the Scriptures show a wonderful unity, centered on the Person and Work of the Lord Jesus, while it can also be said that the New Testament believer under grace is not any longer under the law: Romans 6:14, Galatians 3:2 ff .
  7. That does not mean you have a license to sin and disregard the law completely. We are only free from the law if we are walking in the Spirit-truly following Christ.

    Romans 1
    Romans 2
    Romans 3

    Romans 3:
    31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    Romans 4
    Romans 4:
    13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
    14 For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
    Romans 5
    Romans 5:
    5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
    Romans 6
    Romans 6:
    6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
    2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
    Romans 7
    Romans 7:
    Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
    2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
    3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
    4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
    5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
    6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
    7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
    8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
    9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
    10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
    11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
    12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
    13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
    14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

    Galatians 2:
    16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
    17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
    18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
    19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
    20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
    21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    Galatians 3:
    1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
    2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
    4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
    5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
    7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
    9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
    10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
    11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
    12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
    14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
    15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
    16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
    17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
    18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
    19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
    20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
    21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
    22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
    23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
    26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

    We live and teach the 'law' so when 'faith' abounds, we are living righteously before God. The 'law' reveals sin-we don't get to keep sinning because we are 'free from the law' under Christ. That would be hypocrisy.
  8. Galatians 5:

    16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
    17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
    18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
    19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
    24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
    25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
  9. Bro Mike:

    I would just reiterate that it's my dispensational understanding that the New Testament believer is not under the law, as Romans 6:14, Galatians 3:2 ff indicate.

    (I don't know if you are really saying that I advocate sinning with impunity, but nowhere did I say this, anyway.)

    Though I would generally sympathize with the idea of the sovereignty of God in the Gospel (even the Five Points, if Biblically understood) I'm just not into Reformed teaching to the extent of wanting to put back under the law believers in the Lord Jesus under grace.

    But my purpose is not to argue; I've just stated my case from Scripture and maybe should now move on.

  10. The point I am making is this: saved or not-the 'law' is still valid for teaching and following Christ moving towards the goal of righteousness. You cannot know the path to righteousness that leads to Christ without the law.

    You can however accept salvation without knowing the law-BUT; then you are obligated to further your education in pursuit of a relationship with Jesus Christ when you accept His gift.

    We are not at free will if we are in obedience and subjection to Christ-we are called to obey. Well what do you obey if you know not the law? Yourself?

    As Christians we are called to rebuke and teach the next generation to put them on the path to righteousness. This is done using the 'law'.

    When we truly walk in the Spirit-there is no law against it; for we are walking with Christ directly and the chains of the world fall off.
  11. I don't want to argue all this; as I see it, in Romans and Galatians righteousness isn't identical with the law, and those passages I cited seem to show the believer is not under the law.

    Guys like John MacArthur Jr and J N Darby seem to me to strike a good dispensational balance between the sovereignty of God and his the grace in the Gospel.

    (Maybe I should leave it there, rather than argue?)

  12. I wasn't trying to argue-did you read the scripture I posted above? Just trying to show you what the scripture says-from Paul's own hand.
  13. And I quoted Scripture, too.

    I also tend to be into the Scofield Bible notes; Uncle C I is a favorite of mine, as well as MacArthur, and J N Darby.

    So this is how it is... :)

  14. (y)

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