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Using Public Schools For Evangelism

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by RiverJordan, Jan 27, 2014.

  1. What do folks here think about promoting Christianity in public schools, specifically about school officials using school resources to preach Christianity?

    I ask because I came across this article today...

    If You Want To Fit In At This Public School Just Become Christian

    Basically, a Buddhist student at a Louisiana public school claims he was harassed and bullied by students and teachers because he wasn't a Christian. Some of the complaints include...

    Now, before anyone goes off on the "that's what the ACLU says" tangent, you can CLICK HERE and see that they have pictures, videos, and scanned copies of the tests in question. So to me it looks very much like at least most of what they're claiming is true (including that the first item on the school's website is "We believe that God exists").

    IMO, such over the top actions in a public school eventually produce the opposite of the intended result. Rather than bringing people closer to Christ, they offend and drive more people away.
  2. there is many instances where public schools teach Islam as well ..
    personally I don't think any public school teachers are qualified to teach religion, nor should they ..
  3. Maybe the real question is should we even have 'public schools' run by the government / state/ world?
  4. Ah, another demonstration of Christian Love in action.
  5. Christianity is true and should be promoted everywhere with love and understanding, however,
    in a multicultural SECULAR society which has state funded education it is extremely inappropriate to
    have the state funded secular school system pushing ANY RELIGION.
    RiverJordan and LysanderShapiro say Amen and like this.
  6. I wouldn't support any theocracy, even a Christian theocracy, because Christianity doesn't support theocracies and it would be contradicting itself.

    The State is to remain indifferent and respectful towards the religious choices of the individual.

    Granted, this doesn't mean the State has a place to force individuals from refraining religious beliefs outwardly (for example, if a business chooses to operate its practices under the guidelines of Mosaic Law or Christianity or Islam or, most controversially, Satanism, then that business should have the right to do so provided it doesn't impose upon those who wish not to have any involvement, either as an employee or a consumer.

    The public education system must remain indifferent -- not restricting one's beliefs, but not enforcing anything either.
  7. Really? I've never heard of that. I've heard of some schools teaching about Islam, in the context of teaching about religion in general, but never actually "teaching Islam".

    I agree.
  8. I think so. It's definitely in our national interest to have a well-educated population.
  9. While I agree that is a very important question (one with witch RJ and I have butt heads), it's still not the subject at hand, especially since State-run education does exist, whether or should or shouldn't.
  10. Hello Lysander -
    Mt. Athos is a self sustained theocracy that works quite well. The monks have every reason to see that it does.
    But for the most part, I'd have to agree with you, in the hands of the less than virtuous a theocracy very quickly turns
    into tyranny. The subject always reminds me of the Puritans, whose rule must have been horrendous to live under.

    A historian made the joke years ago that "the Puritans didn't ban bear baiting because they felt sympathy for the bears,
    they banned bear baiting because they could not stand the thought of someone enjoying themselves".
  11. Kinda like the joke about fundamentalism....

    : The intense fear that somewhere, someone is enjoying themselves.
  12. That's a good point, as even Vatican City could be considered as a theocracy. Though I guess what I meant was a theocracy that neglected the edict of tolerance.
  13. The USA education system has dropped from #2 on the planet to #32 (2012 statistics) since the Department of Education took over 30 years ago. Third world countries have better education.

    The problem is schools want the MONEY from the federal government so the state forces 'compliance'. You can't serve two masters....

    Thus standards have been swept away to 'comply' with the UN 'common core' system that is a bunch of bologna. We ARE becoming a New World Order. 2
  14. There's a lot of context in those statistics, so they can't just be taken as blanket statements. For example, many other countries make no attempt to educate kids who are disabled, poor, or otherwise compromised. So comparing their education scores to ours, where we attempt to educate everyone, is apples to oranges. Also, economic status plays a huge role in scores. If you compare our middle and upper class students with their counterparts in the developed world, we're right there at the top. It's only when you add in our kids from poor areas that the scores drop, even though in many cases they are comparable to the scores of poor kids other countries (we just have more of them).

    Well, pretty much all the countries that are above us in these scores have strong national/federal system and curricula.

    Really? UN conspiracies? :eek:
  15. there are literally 1000's of stories of this in the last few years ..
    BTW: "We believe that God exists" is generic and can apply to any religion ..
    Jehovah and Allah would be specific to a religion ..

    In 2001, the Byron Union School District in Byron, California instituted a three-week unit on Islam for 7th-graders. Students took Muslim names, recited Islamic prayers, and celebrated Ramadan. When parents sued the school on the grounds that the course was "officially endorsing a religion," the U.S. Supreme Court rejected their appeal, leaving intact an earlier ruling by the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals that deemed that the unit did not violate the Constitution and had an "instructional purpose." In 2009, the same court of appeals upheld a ban by Henry Jackson High School officials in Everett, Washington against an instrumental performance of Ave Maria at a 2006 commencement ceremony.

    In the State of California, 7th-grade students at Excelsior Middle School in Discovery Bay, California adopted Muslim names, prayed on prayer rugs, and celebrated Ramadan under a state-mandated curriculum that requires instruction about various religions. In 2006, the U.S. Supreme Court again declined to hear legal challenges by concerned Excelsior parents, who complained that the instruction was actually religious indoctrination and that Christianity and Judaism were not given equal time and exposure.

    A Tennessee high school has decided to revise its field trip policy after a group of freshmen were taken to an Islamic mosque where they were given copies of the Koran and while a student who opted out of the trip was given a worksheet that alleged Muslims treated their conquered people better than the United States treated minorities. The students were in an honors world studies class at Hendersonville High School and the field trips to the mosque as well as a Hindu temple were part of a three-week course on world religions. But some parents objected to the trips and wondered why the school would tour a mosque but not a Christian church or a Jewish synagogue.

    A sixth-grade class from a public school in Wellesley Massachusetts school district has apologized to parents after a group of schoolchildren participated in midday Muslim prayers during a field trip to a Boston-area mosque. The incident occurred in May when a social studies class from Wellesley Middle School toured the Islamic Society of Boston Cultural Center, one of the largest mosques in the Northeast.

    A bulletin board at a Wichita elementary school that illustrated the Five Pillars of Islam has been removed "because of the misunderstanding that has been promoted by ... one photograph," district officials said Monday [8/19/2013]. The bulletin board at Minneha Core Knowledge Magnet Elementary was intended to aid students' study of major religions of the world, district spokeswoman Susan Arensman said in an e-mail. It featured five white, construction-paper columns and the words, "The Five Pillars of Islam."

    School officials in Florida are defending a textbook that declares Muhammad as the "Messenger of God" after critics accused an Islamic education group of launching a stealth jihad in American public school classrooms. The Prentice World History textbook being used in Brevard Public Schools includes a 36-page chapter on Islam but no chapters on Christianity or Judaism.

    Texas lawmakers are putting educators on the hot seat after public school curriculum surfaced that promoted Islam and socialism while deconstructing American values and patriotism. School children were exposed to lessons that labeled the Boston Tea Party an act of terrorism. They were also instructed to create flags for socialist and communist countries. And they were also given in-depth lessons in the Islamic faith that included classroom readings from the Koran.

    Fury is brewing at Rocky Mountain High School, in Colorado, after a multicultural student group were encouraged to recite the Pledge of Allegiance over the loudspeaker in Arabic — replacing 'one nation under God' with 'one nation under Allah'. Following Monday's pledge, Principal Tom Lopez has been inundated with complaints from outraged parents concerned that saying the Pledge in any language other than English is unpatriotic.

    An elementary school teacher in Chesapeake, Va. has been charged with simple assault after a parent claimed her daughter's hand was cut open as a result of the teacher yanking her arm aggressively while trying to teach students an "Islamic hand sign."

    An upper Manhattan public elementary school will be the first in the city to require that students study Arabic, officials said yesterday [5/23/2012]. Beginning next semester, all 200 second- through fifth-graders at PS 368 in Hamilton Heights will be taught the language twice a week for 45 minutes — putting it on equal footing with science and music courses.

    Summit High School sophomore Jeff Shott has been awarded a $1,000 scholarship for dressing like Jesus Christ on fictional character day.

    The University of California, Berkeley, provides a prayer room in the student union for Muslim students, and the University of Michigan-Dearborn has installed footbaths for Muslim students, as have a dozen other universities. A technical school in Minnesota has installed footbaths, but the coffee cart's Christmas music has been turned off as a violation of the separation of church and state and, perhaps, insulting to those taking a footbath.

    Two schoolboys were given detention after refusing to kneel down and 'pray to Allah' during a religious education lesson. Parents were outraged that the two boys from year seven (11 to 12-year-olds) were punished for not wanting to take part in the practical demonstration of how Allah is worshipped.

    Officials at a public school in Oregon are defending a seventh-grade social studies unit on Islam that included students dressing in traditional Islamic dress. Kendlee Garner of Nyssa told the Ontario Argus Observer that she objected to the amount of time dedicated to the unit on Islam — four weeks — as well as the wearing of religious garb and the lack of parental notification.

    if I remember Correctly Colorado School system and others across the country screens and collects data on students personal beliefs by authority of the U. S. Department of Education ..






    Brigitte Gabriel, founder of ACT! for America, explains that students are required to become a Muslim for three weeks, adopt Muslim names, memorize verses from the Quran, and visit a mosque for a field trip. If students try their best on assignments, she says, they will be guaranteed a good grade.

    Students in these programs, laments the conservative activist, must also recite the Islamic prayer for salvation, which describes Islam as a straight path to God ─ and Christianity in error.

    "Here's what they're teaching in the public schools; [here's] what they're telling the students they have to memorize and recite," she says ─ " 'Praise be to Allah, Lord of Creation, the compassionate, the merciful, king of judgment day. You alone we worship, and to you alone we pray for help.' "
  16. Ixoye,

    Let's look at the claims made in your post.

    The first is that in the Byron School District "students took Muslim names, recited Islamic prayers, and celebrated Ramadan." In reading about this case, it seems that what is described is a bit exaggerated, and most importantly, the overall context of it being one part of educating students about all major world religions has been left out. The reason the courts ruled in favor of the school district is they were able to demonstrate that Islam was merely one of many religions being covered by the course. That's very, very different than what is described in the OP, where students were chastised for not being Christian, and employees of the school aggressively endorsed and promoted Christianity at every opportunity.

    The Tennessee high school case is the same thing. Even your post states, "The students were in an honors world studies class at Hendersonville High School and the field trips to the mosque as well as a Hindu temple were part of a three-week course on world religions." Again, that's not at all the same as the OP.

    The Wellesley Massachusetts case is the same thing. I actually remember that one, and the people who were actually there dispute the accounts that were reported in right-wing media (e.g. students were not asked, or coerced in any way to do anything). And again, it was done in the context of a world religions study.

    Your next case is the same thing. "The bulletin board at Minneha Core Knowledge Magnet Elementary was intended to aid students' study of major religions of the world".

    I think it's clear by now that you're confusing "teaching about Islam, in the context of studying world religions" and "teaching Islam", as in endorsing, promoting, and coercing students into converting, as the school in the OP did with Christianity.
  17. This is why we now Home school RiverJordan. Have you looked into what Common core is teaching? In the U.S you no longer have to get 2+2=4 You just now have to get what is called a "Reasonable" explanation as to how you came to the conclusion that 2+2=5.

    Here is one of he new common core teacher Workbooks.


    Sally drove 194, 267 and 34 miles. How many total miles did Sally drive.

    The answer is 495, however 500 and 530 are correct also, as long as the student is able to show they somewhat understand how to come up with those wrong answers.

    Well, you just can't be off 2 here and 5 there when dealing with real life problems. What are these kids going to tell their banks when they grow up?
    "Well, I put in 50 this day and 23 that day and 100 that day so I know that 100 and 23 make 123 and about 50 more won't make it quite 200, so It's reasonable that you show 190.00 in my account. I want to know what you did with the rest of my money?"

    The only thing that will help our generation of children is if the Bank Tellers also were brought up under common core, in that case the Bank teller would tell them that is reasonable and credit their account for the full 190.00.

    I think we have more issues than not teaching about Jesus in our schools.
  18. Geez, you totally misunderstood the point of the example problem. It's about rounding and estimation, which is an important skill for kids to learn. I remember learning that in middle school, in addition to learning how to come up with the actual total.

    You seem to be thinking that if they are teaching kids to round and estimate, then they must not be teaching them to do the actual math. You couldn't be more wrong.
  19. Well, I agree we need to learn to round stuff and things. This common core teaching takes it to a whole other level though. Indiana is looking to ban it right now.

    rounding things come into play when we need a whole. Not when we are given exact numbers and can come with an exact answer. Instead of 37 1/2 miles we just say 38 but we are not dealing with fractions in the problem above.

    You really have no issue with common core?
  20. Good, then you shouldn't have any trouble with common core having a requirement that students learn how to round and estimate.


    Again, you're assuming that if they're teaching students to round, then they're not teaching them to come up with exact answers. If you honestly think that's the case, you need to look more closely. I mean, how else are you supposed to learn to round and estimate if not with exact numbers? What did you think, that they'd teach them to round by giving them numbers like 500 and 10? :confused:

    From what I've seen of it, no. The criticisms I've seen are from ideology (all federal actions are bad) rather than actual content.

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