Settling The 'rapture' Theory Once And For All

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by The Town Crier, Sep 29, 2013.

  1. #1 The Town Crier, Sep 29, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
    When where and how...



    The fifth seal shows those who came out of tribulation

    Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
    Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
    Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
    Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    No way to refute that without twisting scripture...The tribulation ends at the FIFTH SEAL and those who came out of it are given white robes.

    After the tribulation-at the sixth seal, the sun will go dark:



    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


    Which is at the sixth seal-compare Mat 24:29 with Revelation 6:

    Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
    Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
    Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
    Rev 6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
    Rev 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
    Rev 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

    Clearly the fifth seal is the end of the tribulation...and the sixth begins the day of wrath.

    Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
    Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    Let's see when Jesus comes on the clouds:

    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    Jesus comes on the clouds after the tribulation.

    So who is leaving...


    Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
    Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
    Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.


    We are not appointed to wrath so we will be saved...

    Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
    Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    Again- who is leaving first:

    Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
    Mat 13:50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.



    2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    Mal 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.


    The ‘harvest’ starts with the angels coming down and the wicked being removed:

    Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
    Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
    Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just,

    Rev 14:15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
    Joe 3:11 Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD.
    Joe 3:12 Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.
    Joe 3:13 Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

    The wicked will be removed or ‘shaken’ out:

    Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?

    Job 15:33 He shall shake off his unripe grape as the vine, and shall cast off his flower as the olive.


    Those with grace cannot be ‘shaken’-and they will remain:

    Luk 6:48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock

    Heb 12:27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
    Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

    Pro 2:21 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.
    Pro 2:22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

    Pro 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.

    Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

    The righteous will see it happen:

    Pro 29:16 When the wicked are multiplied, transgression increaseth: but the righteous shall see their fall.



    Psa 52:5 God shall likewise destroy thee for ever, he shall take thee away, and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee out of the land of the living. Selah
    Psa 52:6 The righteous also shall see, and fear, and shall laugh at him:


    Psa 58:10 The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance: he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.

    Job 34:26 He striketh them as wicked men in the open sight of others;


    Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
    Psa 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.




    The rapture teachers have it wrong...The wicked will be taken away and the righteous will see it. The righteous will not be taken away. Beware of these false prophets!

    Those who remain will look upon their ‘carcases’, and eagles will feast on them:

    Isa 18:5 For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches.
    Isa 18:6 They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall summer upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them.

    Mat 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
    Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.


    Jer 9:22 Speak, Thus saith the LORD, Even the carcases of men shall fall as dung upon the open field, and as the handful after the harvestman, and none shall gather them.

    Scripture is consistent-the wicked are leaving...

    Act 3:23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.

    There is no ‘rapture’ before the tribulation. Scripture is consistent...The angels will come down first and then Jesus will be seen coming on the clouds:

    Luk 21:26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
    Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.



    Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.
    Luk 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.



    The catching away takes place after that hence 'we who are alive and remain' shall be caught up in the clouds...It happens after the tribulation, at the harvest which is the beginning of Judgment:

    2Co 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

    Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
    Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.


    Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.



    The Lord is returning with the 'saints' to judge the 'servants'

    Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

    Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:


    The servants are those who did the will of God through the power of Grace.(The washing and renewing of the Holy Spirit)Through this we become fellowcitizens with the saints:

    Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
    Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

    The saints are those who were killed in great tribulation- Daniel prophecied of them:

    Dan 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

    Psa 116:15 Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.


    You lukewarmers- Go to the Middle East and tell those Syrian and Egyptian Christians that there is no tribulation...Go to China where they have church underground and tell them that there is no tribulation and that there is going to be a rapture before it takes place.

    If the Lord turns the sky dark tomorrow at noon will you know what is happening?

    Amo 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:
    Amo 8:10 And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.




    The falling away IS HERE:

    2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
    2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
    2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
    2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

    Iniquity will work until he is taken out of the way by the Lord

    2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

    Keep reading and you see that 'the wicked' is not one man- but a whole group of people who fall away- it clearly says they and them:

    2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
    2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


    The wicked are leaving and the just are staying...

    Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
    Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
    Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
    Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.


    The day of the Lord is coming upon the proud:

    Mal 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

    Isa 2:12 For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

    Jer 50:29 Call together the archers against Babylon: all ye that bend the bow, camp against it round about; let none thereof escape: recompense her according to her work; according to all that she hath done, do unto her: for she hath been proud against the LORD, against the Holy One of Israel.


    America is Babylon and the day of visitation is coming...

    Jer 13:16 Give glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness.
    Jer 13:17 But if ye will not hear it, my soul shall weep in secret places for your pride; and mine eye shall weep sore, and run down with tears, because the LORD'S flock is carried away captive.

    It is time for Americans to throw away their 'rapture' books and 'unmerited favor' beliefs ...and repent of their pride.



    The USA 'Christians' are proud and lukewarm- it is time to test yourselves!

    Jas 4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

    Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
    Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;



    T/C
     
  2. #2 aha, Sep 29, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2013
    the OP title got my attention "once and for all" which is indicative something of importance, at least to the person saying it....

    only now i found time read about the pre and post trib thread here...and made quick browse about it in other sources...

    Sorry, am rather confused of what you are saying...
    Question 1: what you mean by the word "leaving"?

    and then the discussion jump into "lukewarm"
    Question 2: are you saying that this pre trib belief result to being lukewarm?
     


  3. I thought that 'title' would gather some attention- that is partly why I used it. The other reason is because scripture does not have three different endings. It has one. Having said that, to your first question...

    By the word 'leaving', I mean destroyed, gathered in bundles to be burned, severed from the just, cut off from the earth, however you want to say it. Jesus is coming back to clean house and remove the wicked from the earth:

    Pro 2:21 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.
    Pro 2:22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.

    Psa 52:5 God shall likewise destroy thee for ever, he shall take thee away, and pluck thee out of thy dwelling place, and root thee out of the land of the living. Selah
    Psa 52:6 The righteous also shall see, and fear, and shall laugh at him:

    Pro 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.

    Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

    2 Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    I don't think that you can take those scriptures any other way can you?...It looks like the wicked are going to be destroyed to me...

    Second question-regarding 'lukewarm';


    Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. The lukewarm are living life as though all is good and they are going to be raptured up before times get tough. This spiritual mentality is causing them not to prepare their hearts. What do you think is going to happen to all the pre-trib believers when the Lord begins to put the heat on and purify His people...or when the sky goes dim and the angels come down? Jesus says that those who endure till the END will be saved. What happens to those who do not endure...they fall away. This belief that the bride will not go through any pain is ridiculous and does not hold up to scripture. Go tell the disciples or John, or Stephen, or any of the millions who have been beaten and tortured for preaching Christ that there is no suffering for a Christian:

    2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
    2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.


    There is no real persecution in America because there are so few truly willing to take a stand or give up their lives for Christ. They are happy 'playing church' and doing a few good deeds, but to live Christlike today-simply not happening. Why are all the Christians not standing in the streets refusing to send their kids to public schools now that God and His word are not allowed there anymore? If America was truly a Christian nation, it would be an entirely different place. Go back 50 to 75 years and you see an entirely different set of beliefs and way of life. Do you think that those who are being killed overseas are wondering why they aren't being raptured? No, they understand that times are going to be toughest in the end but grace is sufficient. Therein lies the problem- In America, grace has been turned into lasciviousness instead of the power of God. Jesus has been turned into a genie in a bottle...but what happens when you rub a genie bottle and no genie comes out? America is lukewarm and the day is coming for the lukewarm church my friend- God says He will spit them out! Yes a pre-trib rapture theory is causing lukewarmness instead of endurance!

    T/C
     
  4. Ummm, I see a tinie-tiny flaw in your thinking, PAUL believed in a Pre-Trib rapture and I don't see how you could call him lukewarm!

    As for ending the debate "once and for all," that will never happen until the Rapture and then everyone will know who was right and who was wrong, so for me personally, theses kinds of debatable threads do more damage and destruction to the image of Christ and His Church than they do good, we just went through a period of hostility here at Christian Forum and we have returned to an atmosphere of love and respect for the brothers and sisters in Christ, so let's not keep beating this dead horse, ...I would rather hear what the Lord has done in your life today, what He has told you to do and in faith stepped out and did it and Father confirmed what you did by/through a supernatural manifestation.

    Knowledge puffs up, love builds up.

    Blessings,

    Gene
     
    KingJ likes this.
  5. #5 The Town Crier, Oct 1, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2013



    Hi Gene,

    Umm...Paul did not believe in a 'pre-tribulation' rapture. That is completely incorrect...
    What he said was that we would not suffer the wrath of God- and be in darkness:

    1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
    1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
    1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.


    As I unequivocally prove above...the 'Day of the Lord' starts after the tribulation is over. ( You may want to read it again). No where will you find Paul stating that there is a 'pre-tribulation rapture. He states emphatically that at the last trumpet there is a catching away. The trumpets are not handed out until the seventh seal. The tribulation is over at the fifth seal...not hard to do the math there. The sixth seal is the start of the day of the Lord and also when the harvest takes place:

    Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

    Clearly the tares or the 'wicked' leave first:

    Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.


    2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

    Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from
    among the just,


    It is very clear that the wicked are taken from among the just...

    Are the 'wicked' also in Heaven at this time? No they are not... We are all together at judgment and the wicked are taken.He comes back AFTER the tribulation:

    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    Isa 13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
    Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.


    Isa 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.


    Zec 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain.

    The rapture folks are not going to understand because of the great deception concerning the 70th week of Daniel false prophecy. They are going to think that it is an antichrist in Jerusalem instead of Jesus- but scriptures clearly say different: The rapture crowd is going to be very confused when the skies go dark my friend...Will you be one of them?


    Jer 13:16 Give glory to the LORD your God, before he cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, he turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness.

    Remember the foolish...they will be looking for light:

    Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
    Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
    Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
    Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

    Do not be foolish my friend... Repent and believe the gospel while there is still time.

    As to what the Lord has told me to do in faith... He has asked me to keep that which He has committed to my trust, which is His word. Also, He has asked me to warn people of the false doctrine of the pre-tribulation 'rapture theory'.

    Please consider these things...I say them in love, as I do not want you to be in darkness.

    Grace and Peace
    TC
     
  6. Nope, I know the season of when the rapture will occur by comparing Scripture with Scripture and using the types the Lord has written into His Word.

    I believe you are saying them in love, and I believe you are sincere, but truthfully what you write is confusing, a mixture of many verses taken completely out of context, your purpose for writing the thread is to set the time of the rapture and you end your discourse with wanting me to believing what you have submitted is the gospel????

    Sorry, no can do, I'll stand by what I have already written, when the rapture happens all of God's children will know who was right and who was wrong, so, if you are in the wrong camp are you going to refuse to go, ...I sure won't.

    Oh yeah, Paul, ...according to you the church will be raptured after the fifth seal(?), so that means the church will be exposed to the terrible, frightening, horrendous, catastrophic results of the five seals, so how do you explain his teaching to the Thessalonians concerning the rapture,

    For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 1Th 4:15

    The Church on the earth.

    For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:16

    The Trumpet of GOD, not a trumpet of an angel, ...maybe study what it was used for by Moses will shed some light.

    Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1Th 4:17

    We, personal pronoun only used emphatically, alive, zaō in the Greek meaning possessing eternal life (that's us), caught up, harpazō in the Greek from which we translated it rapture in our English Bibles.

    Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1Th 4:15

    Your words do not give comfort, ...no offense, but I think I'll stick with Paul.

    Gene
     

  7. Ok Gene...You want to compare scripture with scripture let's do that...The righteous will be protected:

    Psa 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
    Psa 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
    Psa 91:6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
    Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
    Psa 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

    The wicked are leaving on that day.

    Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

    I never said that the church was going to be 'raptured' at the fifth seal- what I said was that the tribulation ends at the fifth seal and those who were killed in it are shown as being given their robes and waiting patiently for things to come to a completion.


    Jesus does not come back on the clouds twice my friend, He comes back after the tribulation to complete the harvest;

    Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
    Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
    Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
    Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
    Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:



    Mat 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

    1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
    1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

    How is it that the ungodly are among the righteous if the righteous were 'raptured'...

    Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.


    Psa 1:5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
    Psa 1:6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.



    Gene you highlighted;

    Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    1Th 4:17


    What part of 'we who are alive' and remain' don't you get...of course we will still be alive- the wicked are dead! Of course we 'remain' because we are not taken- the wicked are!!!


    Your 'theology' does not hold water my friend... You want words of comfort; Here they are again-

    Psa 91:4 He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
    Psa 91:5 Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;
    Psa 91:6 Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.
    Psa 91:7 A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.
    Psa 91:8 Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

    Mat 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

    Mal 3:18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.


    Pro 10:30 The righteous shall never be removed: but the wicked shall not inhabit the earth.

    Pro 2:21 For the upright shall dwell in the land, and the perfect shall remain in it.
    Pro 2:22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it.


    I suggest that instead of holding out for a rapture, you make sure you are doing the will of God when He returns- and you will not be taken with the wicked...but remain with the just and allowed to enter the city;

    Psa 101:6 Mine eyes shall be upon the faithful of the land, that they may dwell with me: he that walketh in a perfect way, he shall serve me.
    Psa 101:7 He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.
    Psa 101:8 I will early destroy all the wicked of the land; that I may cut off all wicked doers from the city of the LORD.

    Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    Psa 122:2 Our feet shall stand within thy gates, O Jerusalem.


    These are words of comfort to me...I am comforted knowing that if the Lord returns tomorrow, I will not be removed with the wicked, but will be standing inside the gates while judgment and fire are reigned down on the disobedient. Where will you be if tomorrow the sky goes dark and the Lord sends His angels to destroy the wicked...Will you be gathered to Jerusalem and allowed in the gate or left out? Are you be prepared for JUDGMENT DAY ?

    TC
     
  8. Sigh. :(

    This topic has got to be one of THE most discussed.

    I do not see that anything new has been introduced so I will not allow this thread to continue to its usual conclusion.
     
  9. OK, I've reopened it at the request of the originator. BUT please keep the discussion relevant and civil!
     
  10. Thank you!
     

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