New Generation of Managers in the Workplace

[bobinfaith]

Hello brothers and sisters;

I was bi-vocational as a worker in the accounting field and Pastor in the Church until I retired from work in 2015 becoming full time in the ministry.

Early in my career my supervisor, manager, VP or owner were usually older than me. Toward the end of my work, some of my bosses were younger. One or two were young enough to be my son or daughter.

It was easy to see their inexperience in decision making and people skills for both generations and this wasn't fair of me. So I looked beyond that and adjusted to doing the job I was paid to do, still, I had to adjust my day to day working relationship with them.

Matthew 5:44 and Romans 12:18 were a couple of prayer models I would argue with God regarding unpleasant "people in work" situations. My position of being a good steward to my employer and co-workers wasn't always loving and peaceful. Many times I didn't feel peaceful and dreaded going to my job.

Dealing with treatment, confrontation and decisions in the workplace;

Matthew 5:44, 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, - ESV

Romans 12:18, 18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. - KJV

I strived to see the bigger picture; First, I didn't have the job to accept before God blessed me. Second, what was the company's vision and was I on board with them, or, three, was I just there for the paycheck? These impacted my well being and led me to give my notice and quit, or two times I failed during my probation and was fired, or experienced a hostile takeover and was laid off as a result.

I want to ask these questions for those who are still working today and have their whole careers ahead of them or are nearing retirement.

Are you working for a manager who is older or younger than you? Is there a difference?

Did you receive adequate training, or were you hired as a take charge new employee?

What is it like in these times and what methods are they using in overseeing the work in your department?

How do you as a Christian deal with it and what prayer models to you meditate on to help you as a worker?

More to come...

God bless you all and your families.

Bob in faith

 

[Lanolin]

Not working at moment but seniority is often entrenched and that is good in some respects - however you got to give younger people a chance, esp if you are retiring or planning succession. It is very selfish to hold on to a job when you can't do it anymore and not let anyone else have a turn. They want to learn from you, not have you do everything for them, and then make them feel incompetant because they don't do everything perfect the first time.

I've worked for older people and with younger people. My 'boss' could be a five year old lol esp if working in a school. Some children really like to be the teacher though I usually tell them they can 'play school' in their playtime, not actually take over the class.

 

[Siloam]

I am retired, so cannot loo at things in the same manner as one still working.

Looking back, Other than after school jobs when I was young, and concentrating on my adult career, I was mostly in non-managerial positions.

I had a hitch in the Air Force, and there I was an airman basic ( E1 ) in the Pentagon. I went from ripping off reports from the printers thru console operations, to being assigned to remote sites around the building ending up it a very sensitive site. Each time I was put in a more sensitive position, so I guess I did well.

After the Air force I became a programmer and spent a career in software development, I climbed a technical ladder rather than the managerial ladder and rarely had duties beyond my team until I ended up performing IV&V (Independent Validation and Verification) work for the FAA where I provided analysis to my project manager.

AS you might expect, in my earlier career my managers were all older than myself. Eventually I looked around and I was older than my manager. This prompted several of my shifts in career, trying to remain relevant and use my experience without necessarily switching to management.

AS I was technical, I received little training in organizational management. I was expected to keep myself technically current and took classes at the area colleges as well as online courses.

Being Christian I always tried to be helpful and hard working. In my IV&V wok, I had to deal with the management in contractors and subcontractors and found that their good opinion of my character helped when I had to relate 'bad news'.

There was always a multitude of government entities (such requirement organization, site support, software testing, and my program office organizations) and the biggest problem was the squabbling over turf wars. It made work with the prime contractor difficult. Somehow I obtained and maintained a positive relationship with these entities while remembering who I worked and what were the issues important to each other organization.

Keeping of good repute became vital when government cutbacks in the wake of the economic crisis caused all of these organizations to fight over every funding channel.

Funding finally caught up with us and my job disappeared and along with other issues caused me to eventually realize that I was retired.

 

[BibleLover]

Hello brothers and sisters;

I was bi-vocational as a worker in the accounting field and Pastor in the Church until I retired from work in 2015 becoming full time in the ministry.

Early in my career my supervisor, manager, VP or owner were usually older than me. Toward the end of my work, some of my bosses were younger. One or two were young enough to be my son or daughter.

It was easy to see their inexperience in decision making and people skills for both generations and this wasn't fair of me. So I looked beyond that and adjusted to doing the job I was paid to do, still, I had to adjust my day to day working relationship with them.

Matthew 5:44 and Romans 12:18 were a couple of prayer models I would argue with God regarding unpleasant "people in work" situations. My position of being a good steward to my employer and co-workers wasn't always loving and peaceful. Many times I didn't feel peaceful and dreaded going to my job.

Dealing with treatment, confrontation and decisions in the workplace;

Matthew 5:44, 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, - ESV

Romans 12:18, 18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. - KJV

I strived to see the bigger picture; First, I didn't have the job to accept before God blessed me. Second, what was the company's vision and was I on board with them, or, three, was I just there for the paycheck? These impacted my well being and led me to give my notice and quit, or two times I failed during my probation and was fired, or experienced a hostile takeover and was laid off as a result.

I want to ask these questions for those who are still working today and have their whole careers ahead of them or are nearing retirement.

Are you working for a manager who is older or younger than you? Is there a difference?

Did you receive adequate training, or were you hired as a take charge new employee?

What is it like in these times and what methods are they using in overseeing the work in your department?

How do you as a Christian deal with it and what prayer models to you meditate on to help you as a worker?

More to come...

God bless you all and your families.

Bob in faith

Bob, I'm not working anymore, but when I was in the military, I sometimes worked for younger people. They turn young second lieutenants loose as leaders of groups of people. However, a senior noncommissioned officer (E-7 thru E-9) is assigned to work directly under the young officer to act as advisor and leadership trainer. Although you always remember your subordinate position, your main responsibility is to mentor that young officer. Make no mistake; the officer remains responsible for the decisions he/she makes, but the senior NCO answers to the colonel for why a poor decision is made by the lieutenant. That doesn't mean you get dressed down for an obstinate attitude on the officer's part, but you will get dressed down if you didn't advise him/her of the pitfalls of making the bad decision. That's why good officers have a lot of respect for senior NCOs and rely on them to keep things running smoothly.

 

[blueskies]

Are you working for a manager who is older or younger than you? Is there a difference?

The first 20-30 years all my managers were older. Then I caught up with them the last 20 years and they were mostly my age. Although towards the end, often their managers were younger than they were.

Over the years I noticed changes in culture, managerial methods and dress formality and over the years the general trend is to a less formal but also a less personal approach and relationship between the managed and the managers.

The relationships between managers and employees is generally less familiar and of a shorter duration now as people move around in their jobs more often and so they are investing less of “themselves” in both their work roles and work relationships.

Did you receive adequate training, or were you hired as a take charge new employee?

When I was young I was accepted into an 4 year apprenticeship program, I was “the kid” for the next 15-20 years, my teachers were all my fathers and grandfathers age with lifetimes of technical and living experiences to share. I wish I had payed more attention to their life experiences… it would have saved me much grief.

I do remember one exceptionally talented and grizzled old gentleman tell me that, “… most of the things you think of as important now, they won’t matter at all someday and many of the things you don’t even notice now will be precious when you are my age”.

He was right.

What is it like in these times and what methods are they using in overseeing the work in your department?

As a manager I liked to train someone up in an area and then let them take ownership of it. The best outcome is when they don’t need my advice to accomplish their goals. After you have someone take charge, and they are doing a competent job, it’s important to not undermine them and help only when asked unless something serious comes up.

Save the small stuff for the dreaded annual reviews, because if you are a good manager, there should only be “small stuff” at review time.

 

[Lanolin]

What about a womanager.

aka CEO boss of household affairs. MUM

 

[bobinfaith]

Not working at moment but seniority is often entrenched and that is good in some respects - however you got to give younger people a chance, esp if you are retiring or planning succession. It is very selfish to hold on to a job when you can't do it anymore and not let anyone else have a turn. They want to learn from you, not have you do everything for them, and then make them feel incompetant because they don't do everything perfect the first time. I've worked for older people and with younger people. My 'boss' could be a five year old lol esp if working in a school. Some children really like to be the teacher though I usually tell them they can 'play school' in their playtime, not actually take over the class.

What about a womanager. aka CEO boss of household affairs. MUM

I worked for two women managers at separate times during my earlier days in the workforce. Back then there were more male managers but these two women were qualified and didn't make a difference. They both were good leaders and remember those rare times they recognized my work which inspired me to be a better worker.

As I got older I remember the new younger managers that were hired and the times when I hired them. I agree we must always give them a chance and I tried to be there anytime they asked anything of me. Afterall, I was given a chance when I was new on the job.

One time a younger manager asked me (one of his staff) into his office more than once to discuss two of his staff who gave him a hard time. He had a point and I could discern the issues he was having. He would ask my thoughts. This was awkward since I was only one of his staff, but the Lord prompted me what to say, constructively, when he had these closed door talks with me. I knew he had a lot of deadlines and pressure from the higher ups but at some point I encouraged him to speak directly to the other staff.

As a Pastor I was ministering more to middle and senior Believers. God gave me a word that it was time to step aside as He raised a younger minister (who immigrated from Canada) for the purpose of our Church's pastoral opportunity, and succeeding me. The younger minister has new fresh ideas, vision and direction bringing in new believers.

God bless you, Lanolin.

 

[bobinfaith]

I am retired, so cannot loo at things in the same manner as one still working. Looking back, Other than after school jobs when I was young, and concentrating on my adult career, I was mostly in non-managerial positions. I had a hitch in the Air Force, and there I was an airman basic ( E1 ) in the Pentagon. I went from ripping off reports from the printers thru console operations, to being assigned to remote sites around the building ending up it a very sensitive site. Each time I was put in a more sensitive position, so I guess I did well. After the Air force I became a programmer and spent a career in software development, I climbed a technical ladder rather than the managerial ladder and rarely had duties beyond my team until I ended up performing IV&V (Independent Validation and Verification) work for the FAA where I provided analysis to my project manager. AS you might expect, in my earlier career my managers were all older than myself. Eventually I looked around and I was older than my manager. This prompted several of my shifts in career, trying to remain relevant and use my experience without necessarily switching to management. AS I was technical, I received little training in organizational management. I was expected to keep myself technically current and took classes at the area colleges as well as online courses. Being Christian I always tried to be helpful and hard working. In my IV&V wok, I had to deal with the management in contractors and subcontractors and found that their good opinion of my character helped when I had to relate 'bad news'. There was always a multitude of government entities (such requirement organization, site support, software testing, and my program office organizations) and the biggest problem was the squabbling over turf wars. It made work with the prime contractor difficult. Somehow I obtained and maintained a positive relationship with these entities while remembering who I worked and what were the issues important to each other organization. Keeping of good repute became vital when government cutbacks in the wake of the economic crisis caused all of these organizations to fight over every funding channel. Funding finally caught up with us and my job disappeared and along with other issues caused me to eventually realize that I was retired.

Hello Siloam;

From knowing you here at CFS I always knew you have an interest in all that surrounds the technical sciences. No doubt God guided your path and took the initiative as a Believer to invest in your technical education. Though you felt led to work on the technical side instead of management you still interfaced with both. There can be a challenge to that by interfacing with people in the work environment.

I worked for an aerospace manufacturing company in San Diego and there was a large core of technical, engineers and management. I could see the divide in the working relationships though the pay was very good for these employees. I could not help overlook the Christians who worked for this large company and by their example during some very intense times (the 1986 Space Shuttle and President Reagan's SDI or Star Wars) helped me keep my attitude in check.

During that time there were many young salaried managers with a high stress factor in their work. They would lean on production to meet time schedules because they were expected to give results at their weekly meetings. One young manager was overwhelmed by the higher ups. He broke down crying during the meeting, left humiliated and never returned to his job.

God bless you, brother and thank you for sharing.

 

[bobinfaith]

The first 20-30 years all my managers were older. Then I caught up with them the last 20 years and they were mostly my age. Although towards the end, often their managers were younger than they were. Over the years I noticed changes in culture, managerial methods and dress formality and over the years the general trend is to a less formal but also a less personal approach and relationship between the managed and the managers.
The relationships between managers and employees is generally less familiar and of a shorter duration now as people move around in their jobs more often and so they are investing less of “themselves” in both their work roles and work relationships. When I was young I was accepted into an 4 year apprenticeship program, I was “the kid” for the next 15-20 years, my teachers were all my fathers and grandfathers age with lifetimes of technical and living experiences to share. I wish I had payed more attention to their life experiences… it would have saved me much grief. I do remember one exceptionally talented and grizzled old gentleman tell me that, “… most of the things you think of as important now, they won’t matter at all someday and many of the things you don’t even notice now will be precious when you are my age”. He was right. As a manager I liked to train someone up in an area and then let them take ownership of it. The best outcome is when they don’t need my advice to accomplish their goals. After you have someone take charge, and they are doing a competent job, it’s important to not undermine them and help only when asked unless something serious comes up. Save the small stuff for the dreaded annual reviews, because if you are a good manager, there should only be “small stuff” at review time.

Hello blueskies;

There are 4 points you made that stood out with me, brother;

Over the years I noticed changes in culture, managerial methods and dress formality and over the years the general trend is to a less formal but also a less personal approach and relationship between the managed and the managers.

I remember when we had to wear a tie in the job and my manager would call me out if I came to work without it. The later years did become office casual. Outside the office workers still wear their uniforms which seemed more comfortable.

people move around in their jobs more often and so they are investing less of “themselves” in both their work roles and work relationships.

It may have been the 1980s on when careers included changing jobs every 3 to 5 years. I don't know what happened to long term employment so when I hear of an employee working 10, 20 up to 40 years is very impressive.

I do remember one exceptionally talented and grizzled old gentleman tell me that, “… most of the things you think of as important now, they won’t matter at all someday and many of the things you don’t even notice now will be precious when you are my age”.

I also had a couple of older co-workers who shared some sayings to me that stayed with me up to today. "Never ask a man or woman why they got fired unless they open up to you". "Never share or compare how much money people make". There's more.

As a manager I liked to train someone up in an area and then let them take ownership of it.

It helps when someone enjoys training because they want the trainee to succeed like the trainer did. The part that is so cool is "taking ownership" of it.

God bless you, brother.

 

[bobinfaith]

Bob, I'm not working anymore, but when I was in the military, I sometimes worked for younger people. They turn young second lieutenants loose as leaders of groups of people. However, a senior noncommissioned officer (E-7 thru E-9) is assigned to work directly under the young officer to act as advisor and leadership trainer. Although you always remember your subordinate position, your main responsibility is to mentor that young officer. Make no mistake; the officer remains responsible for the decisions he/she makes, but the senior NCO answers to the colonel for why a poor decision is made by the lieutenant. That doesn't mean you get dressed down for an obstinate attitude on the officer's part, but you will get dressed down if you didn't advise him/her of the pitfalls of making the bad decision. That's why good officers have a lot of respect for senior NCOs and rely on them to keep things running smoothly.

Hello BibleLover;

I was an Air Force brat and remember the examples my Dad set while growing up. Dad was an officer, a Major and navigator instructor. Toward the end of his career he served as liaison to his young reporting officer while finishing his tour in Thailand during the Viet Nam war.

Many years later Dad's reporting officer in command had been promoted several times and oversaw a challenged command where he was stationed.

Dad never came home grumbling despite Viet Nam but always spoke of forward thinking agendas and share positive things during his military days. Dad was a disciplinarian in the home (in other words he was tough on me because I deserved it) but at Church on Sundays I would look at him and he was always calm and quiet and very attentive to the sermon.

I failed the Armed Forces test when I was 20. But my other two brothers had careers in the Air Force which made a big difference in their work ethic, faith, furthering their education.

God bless you, BibleLover.

 

[Lanolin]

In terms of prayer models.

'I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me' is a good one for young people, facing a big responsibility or challenge.

For older people, how about Jesus admonishing to Peter to 'feed my sheep, feed my lambs'

I find that in workplaces all too often older people just throw young people in the deep end and don't give them much training or support, or they hover over them pointing out everything wrong, and feel resentful that they need to ask for help saying 'you should know' or some other thing when of course they don't know (yet). That is a terrible thing to place on a young person and sure way to discourage them and kick them when they are down.

They don't want to feel like a upstart but how else are they going to go anywhere or do anything when nobody gives them a chance?

When learning, there is going to be some trial and error because people are not always following every single thing by the book. If there IS a book or traning manual, great, but if there isn't, how are people going to follow?

 

[Lanolin]

A lot of young people cannot do what their parents do anymore or follow in their footsteps.
Many parents are making ends meet and do not want their children to go into lowly paid jobs and slave away like they did.

It used to be parents taught their children the family business but a lot of families don't have businesses and say to their children they have to go into the world to find a job.

Many immigrant families are like this. They are not set up to teach their children what they do because they cannot make a decent living from it. Or they don't have land to have a farm, or its not profitable. This is why parents encourage their children to have an education so they can have better prospects, but they may also face discrimination from employers.

If your parents were say professional doctors or lawyers, it's often assumed you will be one too. You've grown up in that environment and know the ropes just by being around them right? It would be easy to enter university or learn at your parent's knees or go to the schools they went to.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Most managers aren't trained how to manage, let alone how to manage people. Everyone seems to be flying by the seat of their pants. It doesn't help that many people see jobs as stepping stones. It's rare in the corporate world to find someone who truly cares. It's far easier to simply jump ship than improve things. This goes both ways. Often executives hire managers from the outside rather than from within. The rationale is there is a larger candidate pool. But that does not engender loyalty.

Sign of the times, I guess.

 

[Lanolin]

Most managers aren't trained how to manage, let alone how to manage people. Everyone seems to be flying by the seat of their pants. It doesn't help that many people see jobs as stepping stones. It's rare in the corporate world to find someone who truly cares. It's far easier to simply jump ship than improve things. This goes both ways. Often executives hire managers from the outside rather than from within. The rationale is there is a larger candidate pool. But that does not engender loyalty.

Sign of the times, I guess.

I was trained on how to manage people, did management papers, but end up being made redundant by the managers above me lol

Apparently people think librarians don't know how to manage or run their own libraries. It's really weird.

 

[Musicmaster]

Bob, I'm not working anymore, but when I was in the military, I sometimes worked for younger people. They turn young second lieutenants loose as leaders of groups of people. However, a senior noncommissioned officer (E-7 thru E-9) is assigned to work directly under the young officer to act as advisor and leadership trainer. Although you always remember your subordinate position, your main responsibility is to mentor that young officer. Make no mistake; the officer remains responsible for the decisions he/she makes, but the senior NCO answers to the colonel for why a poor decision is made by the lieutenant. That doesn't mean you get dressed down for an obstinate attitude on the officer's part, but you will get dressed down if you didn't advise him/her of the pitfalls of making the bad decision. That's why good officers have a lot of respect for senior NCOs and rely on them to keep things running smoothly.

I have butter-bar 2nd lieutenants, first lieutenants, and even captains asking me questions quite often since they rely pretty heavily on us older, dedicated Engineers for understanding since we in civil service don't necessarily focus so much on leadership hassles and weightiness, but rather have a far deeper understanding in the Engineering disciplines and profession with all its technical trappings. Officers generally are pushed toward aspiring as leaders moreso than professionals in their actual degreed field.

Even moreso, they love learning from a scrounge...someone who knows how to find difficult answers and hard-to-get stuff needed to get the job done, kind of like Radar and Klinger on MASH.

MM

 

[bobinfaith]

I have butter-bar 2nd lieutenants, first lieutenants, and even captains asking me questions quite often since they rely pretty heavily on us older, dedicated Engineers for understanding since we in civil service don't necessarily focus so much on leadership hassles and weightiness, but rather have a far deeper understanding in the Engineering disciplines and profession with all its technical trappings. Officers generally are pushed toward aspiring as leaders moreso than professionals in their actual degreed field. Even moreso, they love learning from a scrounge...someone who knows how to find difficult answers and hard-to-get stuff needed to get the job done, kind of like Radar and Klinger on MASH.
MM

Hello Musicmaster;

What is butter-bar? ???

 

[Musicmaster]

Hello Musicmaster;

What is butter-bar? ???

2nd lieutenants are what we always called "butter-bars" in the military...the gold color of their rank insignia is almost the color of butter...and their being so new to the corpse of commissioned officers, they are newbies to the culture of the military.

MM