Matthew 16:18
All right here is a little discussion that Who Am I and myself started up in a different thread. I moved it over here just to make it less distracting to the other main topic of said thread. So here is what we said in that thread, and let us begin. We of course are talking about the "Apostlistic (sp?) Succession" and the papacy.
Here is the PM I sent:
Now to start things off, I am not trying to convince anybody or be "the right person". I'm trying to discuss and see if we can all come to the Truth in one way or another!
All right here is a little discussion that Who Am I and myself started up in a different thread. I moved it over here just to make it less distracting to the other main topic of said thread. So here is what we said in that thread, and let us begin. We of course are talking about the "Apostlistic (sp?) Succession" and the papacy.
The Pope. Matthew 16:18.
Don't give me bullcrap about how Peter's name means rock and that Jesus meant you are Peter. Look at the original greek translation, Jesus meant ROCK. He was the foundation of the Church, and there has been an constant line of Popes from Benedict XVI to Peter.
Jesus Christ himself is the chief corner stone.
Jesus was and is the foundation of the Church, (the body of Christ. All believers), not Peter.
“… and upon this rock I will build my church…”
Jesus was talking about himself. He is the chief cornerstone, is he not? That’s what is built upon, is it not?
Here is the PM I sent:
Hey just wanted to bring this discussion out of the thread so no one else needs to get involved in this off topic discussion!
So hey first let's look here:
Quote:
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Now first, I'm sure you are aware of the similarities between Peter and "rock" in Greek, yes? Peter is pronounced "petros" while rock is pronounced "petra". Now this is where it gets all funny, in the translation.
For ease and simplicities sake, check this quote out:
Quote:
Some argue that in this passage there is a minor difference between the Greek term for Peter (Petros) and the term for rock (petra), yet they ignore the obvious explanation: petra, a feminine noun, has simply been modifed to have a masculine ending, since one would not refer to a man (Peter) as feminine. The change in the gender is purely for stylistic reasons.
These critics also neglect the fact that Jesus spoke Aramaic, and, as John 1:42 tells us, in everyday life he actually referred to Peter as Kepha or Cephas (depending on how it is transliterated). It is that term which is then translated into Greek as petros. Thus, what Jesus actually said to Peter in Aramaic was: "You are Kepha and on this very kepha I will build my Church."
But also, don't forget the proceeding verse. Here Jesus is directly speaking to Peter and said the big word: And. This means that he has given him something else right? What could he have given him BUT the rock.
Quote:
Mat 16:18
And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19
And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
Another thing, why would he even mention Peter if he were not to say something directly to him. Again, he previously said how Blessed and full of knowledge Peter was, why would Jesus say something to Peter that he already knew?
Any thoughts?
Now to start things off, I am not trying to convince anybody or be "the right person". I'm trying to discuss and see if we can all come to the Truth in one way or another!