I don't get it...

Discussion in 'Answers' started by Ericisme, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. I don't get it...

    I'm not Christian, I'll admit, I would like to believe... But I can't. I just don't see it. I'm an 18 year old male who lives in the USA, I suffer from severe social anxiety\phobia, to make it simple, I've got no life. I wish to believe in God, but I just don't see it. People say that He's all around them, etc. etc. But I yet to get that knock on the door, He will not reveal Himself. I will admit, I believe in evolution and that junk, that's because it's the only that that makes sense to me. If a certain... God would prove to me that He exists, then ok, I can see how evolution is stupid, but it's not when it's the ONLY REASONABLE explaination to ME. Why does He make it so difficult to be believed in, the majority of the world don't for this reason. It's like trusting nobody to catch you when you fall back into nobodys arms, it's just... stupid. I'd just like some advice in... finding Him, since He's too lazy at the moment to find me. Please don't say any lame spiritual stuff blah blah, I'd like some... actual answers, if there are any. Them spiritually answers to this is the reason why religion is a joke these days, honestly. I'm sorry if I was insulting, this is just kind of annoying...

    I know I may have been insulting, I even know there probably is no answer for me besides "believe and he will come". Which is rather stupid because I can't believe in nothing, I mean sure, if I believe a bag of cash was truely in front of me then that would be cool if it was true, but it's not. So I'm sure I will get no answer, I'm sure this thread will just get deleted... Thanks anyways...
  2. Eric, I will respect your request not to follow up with a bunch of scriptural jargon.

    For one reason, because you are absolutely correct. I think it is fascinating how often one person says: I don't believe in Jesus Christ" and then with the best of intentions, a Christian will respond with..."Well, read what He said here in John.. 15:18 "

    It's like the Christian didn't hear a word the other person said. Why follow up with a quote from someone the person just said they do not believe in?

    So, let's start with the basics...
    You would like to believe.
    Why do you suppose that feeling is inside of you?

    Why do you think you want to believe? Do you think it is YOUR doing?
    What if I were to tell you that it was the work of the Holy Spirit that is giving you that desire?

    .........Lets move on...

    "But I Can't"
    Correct again.
    YOU cannot do anything without God. Faith is not something you can go out and get from a store or by going to a church. And faith is not something that any Christian can somehow "Magically bestow upon you."
    So here we are in complete agreement. :)

    "I just don't see it." :confused:

    Do you "SEE" Evolution, and all that junk?
    If you do, you're the only one in the world who does.

    You're not going to "see" God. Not in this life anyway. Faith doesn't work with your eyes.

    What if I were to ask you if your mother loves you?
    Would you say yes?

    Now.... What if I asked you to prove it. Could you?
    You might give me a bunch of examples, just like a Christian might give you a bunch of verses from the Bible in an attempt to "Prove" that God loves you. But that doesn't prove anything.

    "Oh! My mom fed me, she nursed me when I was ill, she clothed me, gave me Birthday presents, she constantly told me that she loved me"..... on and on and on.

    So what? That doesn't prove anything. Someone who hates you could have done all of those things.
    So how do you "KNOW" that your mom loves you??


    It can't be proven, it can't be seen, but you know it when it is real.

    So lets not try to "PROVE" that there is a God.

    First, we're talking about God. God the Father, the Creator, the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent creator of the universe.
    He doesn't need to find you, He knows exactly where you are, so why would you expect Him to go off looking for something He hasn't lost?

    And if you are looking for Him, it's like looking for your glasses when they are on top of your head.
    Stop looking, and start accepting. You don't have to find someone who is everywhere.
    You just have to stop looking through a vail of your own litmus tests and preconcieved misconceptions about who and what God is.

    Seriously, would you bow down to any "god" that had to do parlor tricks on command?
    I wouldn't.
    I'm just curious, what would you have Him do to "prove" his existance to you?

    I mean seriously,...What would it take to Prove to you that He is real?
    Maybe a big stack of money?
    Maybe a new car?
    Maybe a voice from a burning bush?

    Come on, ...People win the lottery every day, and still don't believe in God. Atheists win cars on game shows and if God spoke from a bush, let's be honest, you would still dig all around that bush and look for how the trick was done, you wouldn't believe just because of that.

    So what would He have to do for you?

    What if He appeared in the flesh? Would that do it?
    What if He gave sight to the blind? What if He healed incurable disease? Fed thousands with a small lunch?
    What if He could raise the DEAD!!! Now that's a good one.

    What if He died on a cross.. was pierced through the side with a spear, was dead, buried, and then raised himself from the dead in front of thousands of witnesses!!

    Would that do it?
    Or like so many who were there, and did witness these events, would you still deny what you see in front of you?

    So again...What would it take? :confused:
  3. I find your post very interesting, you said you believe in evolution, and then you said Christianity is like "trusting nobody to catch you when you fall back into nobody's arms.". My question is, do you want to to have someone catch you when you fall, or don't you? Because if you believe in evolution, then the whole universe exists by chance, and there's definitely no one to catch you when you fall. However, you have this desire to be caught when you fall, this desire for someone bigger than yourself to look after you. You begin with an illogical desire, but will only accept a logical answer. Do you see how something doesn't quite fit?

    God created logic, therefore He can run circles around you with logic, however, He did not choose to make Himself accessible through neatly logical reasoning. This is because God is greater than logic. There is a greater law at work that logic cannot ever touch, and that is faith. You, a human being who claims to be logical, cannot escape a yearning that defies logic. This is to show you that before God Almighty, logic, reasoning, knowledge, human intelligence must all bow down.

    To give an example, if the characters of Hamlet wanted to know Shakespeare, can they find him within the contents of the book? No. They can analyze their story, draw conclusions, find out how many times each word appears in the book...etc. whatever they do, they will not find out about Shakspear because he is outside of the book, he is greater than the story he wrote. In order for the characters of Hamlet to know Shakespear, Shakespear must write himself into the story. Shakespeare would be otherworldly to the characters in the book. He does not follow their rules, he does not go by their customs, his knowledge is higher than their knowledge, and his thoughts higher than their thoughts. They cannot use their reasoning to explain him. They must just humble themselves and hear him tell his story.

    In the same way, God wrote Himself into the story of humanity when Christ came in the flesh. We cannot explain Him with our own knowledge and understanding, because He is utterly not of this world. Humans are foolish because we think we are wise. We refuse to accept anything we cannot master. God will not succumb to fitting neatly into our little minds.
  4. i dont have much time right now only 10min befor i have to head out for church but here goes. you allready have a MUCH MUCH better start on your path to God than i did befor i started to believe. you have the desire and the want, i didnt have either. to be honest if i had believed in God befor i got saved i would have hated him for the things i suffered through as a kid yet He found me and changed my life in the moste profound ways you could ever imagine. its kinda strange the night i found God was the night i needed him the moste, i was actually planning to kill my self that night. now i know you said you didnt want scripture or any of that but try reading the first four books of the new testament. they are pretty much the same just from 4 different views. you say God is to lazy to find you? with all respect i think you are wrong i personally think God has allready found you and is waiting for you to accept Him in to your heart. why else would you have the desire to believe? i personally think having faith in God is like jumping off the highest cliff with no parachute, bungie cord or any thing else except the faith and belief that God will be there to catch you. its kinda scary at first and its extreamly hard though its not nearly as hard as trying to stay the course. one other thing to remember God will provide what you need when you need it not what you want when you want it.
  5. How do you know your not a christian ?????????

    Do you even know what a Christian is???

    Have you ever truthfuly sought answers ?????

    Have you ever realy tried placing your faith in Christ????

    The "theary" of evolution is just that (a theary)

    "In theary" a lot of things seem reasonable, practicle, sensable.
    Let me ask you this. . .
    How has believing in evoltion helped you????? Has it given you strenght??? understanding??? morals, ethics, compassion, love?????

    How does it explain those in your life who care about you or that you care about them???? Where is the guidence, councel, wisdom in evolutional theary?????? Where is intilect, reasoning, hope, peace,hate, love sacrifice,all the things that separate us from the rest of the animals addressed in evolution????
    Evolution even if it were more than a theary doesn't by any stretch of the imagination address "life" other than to say it is meanigless, without purpose or consiquenes.

    Lookup the origins of the "Evolutional theary". . . The life and purpose of Darwin and his theary. Did you know that Darwin was a christian who after the death of a loved one rejected god and set out to find an explination of our existance that did not include God??? You think his motivation might have has some effect on his" theary"????? I for one don't see how it could have done otherwise
    Evolution tells how some believe you and I come to be here but says absolutly nothing about why or what we can or should do while we are here.
    With all that isn't explained about life by "evolution" why is it so hard for you to believe that there is a better answer?????

    What makes "something from nothing by chance"(evolution) more reasonable than a higher power with a purpose creating this world?????

    What you need to do is look deeper into what you do believe about evolution and don't believe about God and make an informed decission.

    sincerly His
    and yours
  6. Eric, I wanted to comment but after reading THIS response, it would be superfluous wouldn't it?... Basically, Ride4theson said it all... God DOES exist and He doesn't have to prove Himself and yet, in a way He did... He became man and suffered for you and for me, for everyone! He did it because He loves you but you will not experience Him unless you decide to!
  7. friend,
    He does not make it difficult at all, man does that. I feel it is a basis on Love and Faith that you need to start with in being a christian. If Evolution is a simply theory, not even qualified for that because it has no sufficient ground to stand on as a theory. Theory must be tested, retested and come to a conclusion that is relatively the same as the previous results..
    But, the BIBLE dear friend, has never wavered. When man "claimed" the LORD revealed and He will has never changed and never will..

    Friend, if you can put faith in a textbook and a teacher, then why not put a little faith in the Bible and God and just see where he takes you..
    blessings to you, may you find the way, the truth and the light!
  8. Ericisme, I was heartened to read that you want to believe. I know God will answer you're desire. I went through something similar and this was after I had prayed basically what is known as 'the sinner's prayer'.

    Shortly after this things happened which really made me doubt that Jesus was who He said He was, and even in fact if the bible was true.I prayed similar to'doubting Thomas' in the bible....Lord I want to believe, help my unbelief

    At the time, my life was spiralling totally out of control and what I perceived as a blind faith, was in my opinion, no help whatsoever. Just like you, I didn't want those 'spiritual answers' I needed facts. I needed to know if this Jesus actually existed, I needed to know if he was in fact who he said he was and did the things that the bible said He did, because if this was all lies, then I would be as well ending my life there and then as I knew I couldn't go through this without the hope that a loving God had this situation in control and was working it out for my ultimate good.

    I discussed this with a wise friend and she gave me a book called 'More Than A Carpenter' by Josh Mcdowell. This was written by a lawyer and believe me there are no 'spiritual answers' inside. It is the historical evidence proving the existence of Jesus and why He was who he said he was. He proves the existence of Jesus in the same way historians have proved the existence of Caeser,Napoleon, and all other characters from history.

    Ericisme, I strongly urge you to buy this book and then I believe you won't be able to say.... quote "I wish to believe in God but I just can't see it" or "I can't believe in nothing".

    God bless you Ericisme, I believe God will honour your honesty and your desire to know Him.:)
  9. vision1 Is the only response to this question that I can really get on board with. Although, i havent read the book yet so i cant completely agree, he has shown a neutral explanation to the existence of jesus.

    But the existence of jesus does not justify the existence of God. The verification of the stories told in the Bible justify the existence of God. Were all the stories true including the "miracles" i could then begin to believe in God. But there are some discrepancies between gospels, and the fact that there are multiple derivatives of the same religion that force me to be skeptical.

    1) Different gospels leave out certain facts that i feel are extremely important. How can one gospel mention the virgin birth and some not. I feel that that discrepancy brings up the question of how much of these stories is "God's word" and how much is man's word.

    2) Evangelism Catholicism Protestantism each with minor differences in their beliefs that however bring up a question of how man can interpret God's word differently. If God were to build a book that were to guide our lives wouldnt he do that in a manner in which we couldnt falter.

    I am an engineer at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, and was brought up as a Hindu and currently believe in no religion. I have read many books that have effectively argued the inexistence of a God but am now very intrigued by one that argues the other side as i wish to not be biased.

    In Response to the argument of Evolution, St. Paul II himself says that Evolution in the Darwinian sense is far from hypothesis and nearing conclusion.

    I can't say there is no God, because the same way you have no definitive proof to say there is i have none to say there isnt. However the scientific basis for the fallacy of a supreme being outweigh the proof (excluding the bible) of one existing. So although i can't say there is no god, the probability of one is minimal.

    I don't say I want to believe however i want to understand those who do. I have few friends who still believe in any form of religion, and wish to understand the thought process and make an informed judgment.
  10. Guest, In answer to your 1st question. The fact that the 4 gospels talk about different events, in the life of Jesus in my mind make them even more reliable. Have you ever listened to different people talk about the same events? They will all tell it from a different perspective, some omitting some facts while others inserting others. Don't you think the early church fathers knew this when they were making the cannon of scripture and yet it wasn;t changed?

    Talking of the miracles being true. After the death of Christ the early churches were being formed and these letters were being sent speaking of the miracles. Don't you think people who lived at the same time or just shortly after Jesus would have disputed these facts, rather than dying for them. If you were told that John F Kennedy raised the dead, healed the sick, and rose from the dead, would you believe it? No of course you wouldn't and you certainly wouldn't die for it.

    God did build a book to guide our lives, but men having free will and being under another influence(that is a different subject altogether) will do there best to change the most important part. You will find that if you look into various religions the one thing that is changed or omitted is the fact that through faith in Jesus and NOTHING ELSE (not church, not good works,not religion )do we become children of God.

    As for evolution. I know Christians who have the view that IF evolution is true(and it is not an absolute) then God created this pattern and it is He who masters the changes.

    Guest, the book I mentioned is a very easy read. The author thought that followers of Jesus were basically crazy, and he set out to prove that this was the case, by the end he couldn't refute the evidence. I will pray the same for you:D

    If you want a more detailed book on christian apologetics then maybe a visit to a christian bookstore would be an idea. :)
  11. First off, Im no Bible expert like TD Jakes or anything of that sort, but i do know certain facts about the Bible and the Gospels and the history of the Bible that may help explain that.
    1) Each gospel was written by a different person (save 1 or 2). For example the book of Luke was written by, of course, Luke and the book of John was written by, yet again, of course, John. Now when they decided to write their respective books, they didnt all get together and discuss what would be put into them. They each wrote them of their own individual accords. Taking a quote from an animated movie, Hoodwinked, "If a tree falls in the forest, there will be 3 stories. Yours, mine, and the tree's." For example, some writers may not have been there to witness the birth of Jesus but heard about it from somebody who was there or even Mary herself. So one author decides not to include it in his book due to the fact that he couldnt verify it with anything but what other people say and wanted to be on the safe side. Another author feels he has heard enough testimonies of the birth from who was there or even was there himself so he includes it in his book.
    2) You have to remember the authors were human just like us. They may have had sketchy memories of some events and very clear memories of others so they left out the sketchy memories so that we wouldnt be left with an incomplete story. Why not give us atleast something? (this is my opinion to the question btw) Nobody likes an incomplete story...well nobody that i've met anyways. I know i cant stand to get half a story so that would probably cause even more doubt for me and drive me away from reading it. The authors may have had this in mind
    3) The Bible has been reprinted many many times. I mean just look at how many version of It there are out there. (NIV, KJV, NCV, etc.) Obviously due to human error and/or manipulation, something could have been changed from the original text. I mean we all do that experiment in grade school where the teacher tells one student something and tells him to pass it on down a line of students, and by the time it gets back to her, its completely different than what she said.

    Well in the Bible it warns against denominations, that humans will occassionally produce false prophecies and to be weary and cautious before entering into a certain denomination. (Not that any particular denomination or being a part of a denomination is bad). It also says that no man created these denominations because he interpreted them by his own will but that it was God's will that he interpret them the way he did.
    In my opinion, each denomination has certain things aboout it that appeal to people and God knew that so He allowed them to be created. But in the end, each denomination of Christianity leads to and celebrates accepting to Jesus Christ as your savior and that is what the point of sending Jesus was.

    In response to this, believing in God and Christ gave me so much more than just a religion, than just a system of beliefs or a righteous way of thinking. It gave me an understanding of who we as people really are, why we act the way we do, even something to look forward to in life (because how dismall is a life that points to nothing but death and then nothing afterward?). It gave me a new perspective of the world and the beautiful things we find all around us. Even the simple pleasure of a beautiful day. It enhanced my life and in a way renewed my imagination.
    Sure i have questions and doubts (every believer of Christ will have them at some point in his/her life) but one day Christ will return and all the questions will be answered. And as for the doubts, simple praying can take care of that.

    And that is the best part about it.
    I hope you have found what you were looking for in this post. If not then I would be happy to answer more questions or atleast talk about them if I cant answer them.
  12. Two Gospels mention the Virgin birth and two do not. But only two of the Gospels deal with the early life of Jesus both of these mention the virgin birth. While the other two Gospels only start their commentary at the start of Jesus ministry. Just because two Gospels do not cover the story of Jesus birth does not mean they disagree with the Gospels who do.

    If one man says :"Yesterday morning was sunny and bright and in the evening there was a storm."

    And another man says: "We had a storm yesterday evening." Does the second account call into doubt the first?

    And another observation. If all 4 Gospels covered all the same ground why would there need to be 4? The 4 where compiled as they where to guard the integrity of each one.

    But human beings do falter. Also if there is a desire in one to interpret God's Words to conform with what one sees as good. Then should God force one who desires what is against His will to accept His will?

    Why should God prevent one who desires to follow a perverted way from doing just that? In the end if the true Message is there it will become clear to those who are willing to trust in God and follow the true Way to Him. Jesus promised a Helper to guide us into all truth. I believe the Holy Spirit to be that Helper and He will guide those who will be meek and contrite towards God in the right Way.

    All Praise The Ancient of Days

  13. You cannot see the air but you can breathe it, feel it's power and see it's effects.
    You question what you do not know- I speak of Him whom I do know. He sought me out and made Himself a reality in my life.
  14. btw, this was me before i registered. So you know who to contact in reply

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