Help me figure this out ( part 2)

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Via dolarossa, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. I'm still new to Christianity so forgive me for not understanding...
    whilst I can believe what is written, it's still hard to grasp and one thing that I'm struggling with is that...
    I read about Jesus torture at Calvary and image it to be horrible. And then read by Jesus stripes( flogging) that were healed. I feel more disgust that someone could do that to Him. how on earth can I be glad he died to save us from our sins?
    I'm finding it hard to understand
    How does dying for our sins work anyway?
    Truthfrees likes this.
  2. Before Christ, God required sacrifices to be made to atone for sins. Hebrews brought offerings to the priest and the animal was ceremonially slaughtered and offered up to God as atonement. This was a constant process. God, by His very nature is supreme goodness. Anything evil is His enemy and cannot stand in His presence or approach Him. In order to give mankind an intercessor, a High Priest who is perfect in every way, God gave His only Son born without sin, to become the ultimate sacrifice of atonement for the sins of all mankind. Once accomplished, this meant that man, who is born with the stain of sin on his soul, now had a perfect sacrifice that would stand for all time; a sacrifice that would allow us to approach God through Jesus.

    I once heard a sermon that tried to explain that true sacrifice always involves the shedding of blood. This is why it was necessary for Christ's blood to be shed for us, or it would not have fulfilled the requirements of a true sacrifice. You're right - it is a horrific thing that was done, but Jesus offered Himself of His own free will for US; you and me. That's the absolutely incredible marvel of it all - Jesus knew what was going to happen to Him, and for our sakes He allowed Himself to be a sacrifice for all mankind's sins so that we too may approach God through Him and ultimately enter the kingdom of God. Since good and evil cannot exist in union, only by cleansing us of our sins could it ever become possible for us to be near God. In order for the sacrifice to be perfect and enduring, the one being sacrificed had to be perfect, in other words, born without sin. Jesus is the only one ever to have been born without sin in order that his sacrifice would be the perfect, final sacrifice needed for all peoples for all time.

    Those who do not accept Jesus as their Saviour or recognize Him as the perfect sacrifice making Him our High Priest and intercessor with God, cannot approach God nor enter the kingdom. Jesus is the new covenant between mankind and God, and through Him our sins are forgiven, but as I already pointed out, in order for this to be brought about it involved blood sacrifice. I don't know if I've helped explain it for you, or if I've made things more confusing. I can only say that if there had been another way for this to be brought about, then it would have been done that way. But that is not what God required - what God required is exactly what happened. Thanks fo God's immense love for us and not wanting to see us perish as sinners, God gave us this perfect sacrifice. We have so much to be thankful for.
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  3. And so all the animal sacrificing with the spilling of innocent blood ended. “When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.” John 19:30
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  4. Thank-you I get it now egraine You explained it he game himself up as sacrifice was Jewish law or custom.
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  5. Blood sacrifice started when God had to kill an animal to make Adam and Eve clothes in the garden, right before He put them out of the garden.

    When God made His covenant with Abram (Abraham), He knew that Abram would understand the blood covenant. So it continued, and became part of the law like Egraine said, because it was a symbol of never forgetting what God had to do, because of Adam and Eve's sin.
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  6. Greetings Via dolarossa

    First of all Rejoice because now through Jesus our Christ your future can be intact and you can be made right before God.

    Jesus the Righteous one that knew no sin took our sin of our unrighteousness.
    So look at it this way, Jesus with our sin and unrighteousness and us with His Righteousness.

    It goes back to the day His light went out in the garden, that is the day that Adam and Eve gave into satans trickery of deception and not only brought the curse into this world but also gave the dominion and authority over to satan.

    Now to understand all of this, we must rid ourselves of human reasoning and understanding and grasp their are Spiritual Laws in place that God Himself put into being.
    We also must understand there is more going on in the Spiritual realm then in our 3D natural realm.

    Now since satan became god of this world and had adams authority and held the keys to death, well there was not much hope for any of us to get right before the Father and spend eternity with Him.

    But God being Thee All Wise had a plan or strategy of His own to turn this all around and get man back to the place he was created to be.

    His plan was Jesus our Christ.
    The Father new all along what was going to happen and to put it in a modern day term, He played satan like a 3 dollar fiddle.

    satan the master deceiver was Deceived through his greed and goal of being not like God but Thee Most High God.

    Here is how God's plan played out.
    First realize there is more at stake then just being nailed to the cross. The nailing was the means used to set God's plan into action.

    When scripture talks about He gave up the Ghost. He was separated from God, this is known as the second death.
    This is when our unrighteousness and sin entered Jesus. It was not a pretty sight and satan thought he had won.
    This was done because the Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit can not die nor be found with sin, little know all man's sins.

    So what's the importance of this? Hang on and watch God's master plan unfold.

    Scripture tells us He suffered our punishment. What punishment would this be? Our punishment of hell. He took our place in Hell.

    So now Jesus is just a spirit of man with a twisted sin filled soul. Watch how God's plan unfolds....
    Now all hell thought they won. They are Rejoicing in their evil and tormenting Jesus like no one had ever known. They are all there. satan and every imp and demon and wicked power, all gathered in One Place tormenting Jesus and bragging about their victory.

    Then at just the right moment, God said enough and God's Spirit began to fill this ugly, defeated twisted spirit filled with all our sin.

    Life Returned to Jesus and as Jesus Began to Rise up with the Light of God and I would truly like to have seen the reaction of satan and his cohorts as their plan was now being put to shame. So for me, I am truly going to find Abraham and Elijah once I get home and talk for hours. They were part of the Great Witnesses that saw all this go down.

    Anyway, Jesus rose up and began to Fight, He not only won this fight but whooped them good. He stripped satan of what Adam gave him and took back the keys of death and scripture tells us, Jesus paraded them through the streets of hell.

    Many say Jesus did not go into hell and paint so many different scenarios but scripture is quite clear on this.

    So to stand on His word that by His Stripes we are healed is something Jesus suffered dearly for. See He defeated sickness and diseases as he defeated satan and it all came to pass through His shed Blood for us through the cross. He bore our Victory and Right to be The Redeemed through all that He went through from pilot to hell and back.

    So to refuse this is the most utter most unpardonable sin. Rejecting What Christ Did For Us.

    When I was studying this I wrote some articles, I don't have the pdf's I made anymore but I will try and find my notes and put something together With The References used.

    Truthfrees, godbe4me, Via dolarossa and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  7. Greetings Via Dolorossa!

    My answer to this would be that God's intention from the very beginning is to establish a perfect kingdom on earth that would never crumble. And part of why it won't is because not only will all power and authority rest in His hands, but He will forever be regarded by all of Heaven as Worthy to reign. No one will even be able to gain entrance into the kingdom of God without acknowledging the price He paid for them as their Savior. And forever the scripture will be fulfilled which says that "every knee will bow, and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord." This verse is often interpreted as relating to what demons must do when they are cast put, but it actually relates to how believers will honor Him throughout eternity.

    Was it a terrible price to pay? Yes. But Jesus knew the reward awaiting Him, for as the scripture says, "Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." (Hebrews 12:2).
    Truthfrees likes this.
  8. A perfect kingdom sounds amazing!
    In my own mind!

    I remember trying out a kingdom of my own, I recall dictatorship! You must do this and you need this, in my limited glory I brought my kids up to be well...

    I had locks on my cupboard doors so they wouldn't swallow bleach!
    Why didn't God do this for us?
    He made the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
    I wouldn't like to think he opened a door to this bleach knowing full well we would take of it
    I'm upset with god right now knowing he would do this
  9. Think about though, what an awesome trust that God has in us. He trust us to do the right things with whatever the enemy throws our way.

    God is so amazingly smart. And so were Adam and Eve. Think about how smart and intelligent they were. Two people who.could make coverings for themselves with just the materials in the garden. Plus they were made in Gods image and likeness... they would have to be intelligent.

    The tree was something that I believe he would have had in-depth discussions about later... but in the beginning it was just about trust and obedience.
  10. Just like children!
    As kids we knew what was good and bad
    Our Heavenly Father knew us so well
    He trusted us with the Holy Spirit

    He gave us the gift of discernment with the HS
    I trusted it as a child
    I stayed well away from my auntie kath

    Cturtle likes this.
  11. Please don't be. Yes, He could have put the tree out of reach, but He made it accessible for a reason. He gave us free will and then wanted us to use that free will to CHOOSE HIM. He wants to be loved (see the Song of Solomon). He wants to be desired. He is a Lover, not just our God. So He gave us a choice, knowing the consequences that we would face for disobedience, but also knowing that He would die for our sins to redeem us, that we could return to Him in love.

    And unlike with bleach, the tree of life didn't ultimately kill us. It provided us the opportunity to see the terrible effects of sin. But the effects of obedience will bring us something you could never bring your children in the natural: ETERNAL life in Paradise. A life that will forever be joyful and happy and blessed when everything is said and done. It sounds like a good deal to me.
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  12. What's Eternal life in paradise like? Is it having everything you desire?
    That's what eternal life would be like for me.
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  13. Close. There are arguments about all of what it will include. But rest assured it will be good. Immaculate surroundings. Beauty beyond compare. Flowers everywhere. Colors like you've never seen on earth. Nothing ever dies. A leaf that falls to the ground just disappears. Perfect bodies restored to the prime of health. Beautiful, artistically built mansions, always built specifically to the taste of the owner, with precisely the kind of furniture they love the most. Animals of every kind, living in peace and harmony... I think that's the part I will enjoy most. I want to be able to have tigers and lions for friends, and get in the ground and wrestle with them.

    And most of all Jesus, the Lord of it all. Knowing Him, loving Him, worshipping Him together. There are said to be huge amphitheaters throughout Paradise, and that the worship services are beyond compare.

    Just a few of the things. If you'd like some books of people who have been taken there in spirit and come back to tell about it, let me know. I'm sure I can recommend a few things.
    Truthfrees and Via dolarossa say Amen and like this.
  14. Yes please! fire away!
    Thankyou and Blessings
  15. Ok. I think the best three resources on Heaven would be the following:
    1. My Dream Of Heaven, by Rebecca Springer
    2. We Saw Heaven, by Roberts Lairdon, and
    3. Close Encounters of the God Kind (DVD), by Jesse Duplantis

    The Rebecca Springer testimony is dated to more than 100 years ago, and she was Canadian. So the language is a little "flowery" I suppose you might say. But hers is the most detailed and beautiful account of all. We Saw Heaven is a compilation of four separate testimonies, one of which is a summary of Rebecca Springer's. But they're all good. And there are some that reject Jesse's heavenly account because they don't like the some of the things he teaches or the crowd he runs with. But his testimony is real, and that one is a recorded message on DVD. I strongly recommend that one, because it is possibly the best thing ever put on DVD.

    Hope these help. I'm sure every one is still available for purchase somewhere. There are others I could add to the list, but those three are the best Imo.
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  16. it is a place where your heart is blessed to the full

    everyone loves God and each other because everyone can feel God's love 24/7

    there is no sin, so no regret/shame/condemnation

    the glorious essence of God permeates heaven making every moment of every day perfectly peaceful and satiated with God's warm comforting love

    all the other beauty and unlimited provision is wonderful too, but does not remotely compare to the glorious essence of God that is tangible/palpable

    think of the most beautiful moment you have ever experienced in your life

    remember how it felt in your heart/soul/body - the peace/joy/satisfaction you felt

    then multiply that feeling 1000 times and make it permanent/unending/unceasing

    that is what heaven will be like

    this is the condition we will experience in the full presence of God
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  17. The most beautiful moment for me was when I was in love.
    And it never went any further than a feeling which for me brought much sadness.
    So now I equate falling in love with pain!!
    It's now a conditioned awareness which must be worked on through Christ.

    So Now I'm working on it! Now I have The Word, im overcoming it.

    Thankyou truth fees and many blessings
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  18. so sorry to hear this my dear friend

    praying for your heart/soul/memories to be healed of all the pain associated with love unfulfilled/devastated/lost

    human love is a poor image of God's unending/unconditional/unchanging love for us

    i had to ask God to give me His love for people because i saw how poorly i loved others - totally insufficient compared to God's love

    oh how we humans hurt each other

    oh how we need God's love to fill us and flow through us to others

    this is why Jesus said apart from Him we can do nothing : John 15:5

    we need to allow Christ to live in and through us via His Holy Spirit : Galatians 2:20

    as one of the fruits/manifestations of the Holy Spirit in and through us: Galatians 5:22-23

    Christ in us can do all things through us : Philippians 4:13

    it is God who works in us to cause us to both desire/will to do His will and be empowered to actually do His will : Philippians 2:13

    Paul called this doing all things with God's energy working within us : Colossians 1:29

    it's a matter of learning how to lean on God's ability dwelling inside us, rather than leaning on our own ability : John 3:30

    it's learning how to BE in Christ, rather than DO for Christ - be in love with Christ, rest in Christ's love, allow God's love to fill us first so that it is His love that overflows from us.

    praying for you my dearest friend

    what a precious heart you have
    inquiring mind, Fish Catcher Jim and Via dolarossa says Amen and like this.

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