Have you ever noticed Genesis 19:24?

Origen

Origen

I think that many people simply gloss over Genesis 19:24 without giving it due diligence. Everyone is pretty much in agreement that Genesis 18:1-19:25 is a theophany. That is why I find it so odd that Genesis 19:24 is rarely even mentioned.

"Then Yahweh rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from Yahweh out of heaven."

Essentially what we have is: "YHVH rained... ...from YHVH in heaven." Thus there appears to be two Yahwehs. One Yahweh on Earth (i.e. Sodom and Gomorrah) who brings down sulfur and fire from Yahweh who in heaven.

Thought?
 
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Abraham had pleaded with God for those in Sodom, if there were 10 good men the city would have been spared. Many believe that this was the pre-incarnate Jesus. Thus we could say that Jesus rained down sulfur from the Father in Heaven.
 
Origen said:
I think that many people simply gloss over Genesis 19:24 without giving it due diligence. Everyone is pretty much in agreement that Genesis 18:1-19:25 is a theophany. That is why I find it so odd that Genesis 19:24 is rarely even mentioned. "Then Yahweh rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from Yahweh out of heaven." Essentially what we have is: "YHVH rained... ...from YHVH in heaven." Thus there appears to be two Yahwehs. One Yahweh on Earth (i.e. Sodom and Gomorrah) who brings down sulfur and fire from Yahweh who in heaven.
Thought?
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Good morning, Origen;

I believe in all facets of God. In Genesis 18:1-19:25 God may have sent His three visitors, (angels or servants) of God as a theophany but it's always God in the center with a purpose and message in this chapter assigned to Abraham. This reminds me of instances in my life where the Holy Spirit gives me discernment to know right from wrong and will add to my accountability if I don't pay heed of obedience to God.

I feel we all should give Genesis 18:1-19:25 serious thought. Abraham gives serious thought and concern, then pleads with God but Sodom and Gomorrah give no thought of God because of their deep embedded sin of satisfying the flesh. Genesis 19:24 reveals God's wrath that we all have to accept as stern consequences for our sin.

Origen, why do you feel it odd that Genesis 19:24 is rarely ever mentioned, by whom?

When my wife and I study and discuss Genesis in the New Year we shudder how God gives us so many chances to turn back to Him from many of our free will and how we have to face the consequences of God's just when we're disobedient.

These are my thoughts.

God bless you, Origen, and thank you for sharing.
 
bobinfaith said:
Origen, why do you feel it odd that Genesis 19:24 is rarely ever mentioned, by whom?
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Because when discussing the plurality of God (i.e. the trinity) in the Old Testament, Genesis 19:24 is rarely cited as evidence if at all. Most people, in my opinion, jump to the "let us" passages while ignoring this one. Genesis 19:24 clearly provides evidence for the plurality of God. We have a Yahweh at Sodom and Gomorrah on Earth, and a Yahweh in heaven.
 
Origen said:
Because when discussing the plurality of God (i.e. the trinity) in the Old Testament, Genesis 19:24 is rarely cited as evidence if at all. Most people, in my opinion, jump to the "let us" passages while ignoring this one. Genesis 19:24 clearly provides evidence for the plurality of God. We have a Yahweh at Sodom and Gomorrah on Earth, and a Yahweh in heaven.
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24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven; i fail to see your point
 
ChatGPT 3.5

User
Genesis 19:24

ChatGPT
Genesis 19:24 from the Bible reads: "Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens."



User
What is the original text?

ChatGPT
The original Hebrew text of Genesis 19:24 is:

"וַיְהִ֗י יְהוָ֛ה גֹּ֥שֶׁם עַל־סְדֹ֖ם וְעַל־עֲמֹרָ֑ה גָּ֖פְרִ֥ית וָאֵֽשׁ מֵאֵ֥ת יְהוָֽה־מִן־הַשָּׁמָֽיִם׃"

It translates to: "Then the Lord rained down sulfur and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens."



User
Which word is "Lord"?

ChatGPT
In the original Hebrew text of Genesis 19:24, the word translated as "Lord" is "יְהוָ֛ה" (Yahweh). This is the divine name of God in the Hebrew Bible.



User
So it says "Yahweh rained down sulfur and fire... from Yahweh"?

ChatGPT
Yes, that's correct. The verse states that Yahweh (the Lord) rained down sulfur and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, and it specifies that it was from Yahweh, indicating divine intervention.



User
Does this verse contain the word "elohim"?

ChatGPT
No, the word "elohim" does not appear in Genesis 19:24. The verse specifically uses the divine name "Yahweh" to refer to God.



User
Thank you.

ChatGPT
You're welcome! If you have any more questions or need further assistance, feel free to ask.
 
LearningToLetGo said:
ChatGPT 3.5

User
Genesis 19:24

ChatGPT
Genesis 19:24 from the Bible reads: "Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens."



User
What is the original text?

ChatGPT
The original Hebrew text of Genesis 19:24 is:

"וַיְהִ֗י יְהוָ֛ה גֹּ֥שֶׁם עַל־סְדֹ֖ם וְעַל־עֲמֹרָ֑ה גָּ֖פְרִ֥ית וָאֵֽשׁ מֵאֵ֥ת יְהוָֽה־מִן־הַשָּׁמָֽיִם׃"

It translates to: "Then the Lord rained down sulfur and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens."



User
Which word is "Lord"?

ChatGPT
In the original Hebrew text of Genesis 19:24, the word translated as "Lord" is "יְהוָ֛ה" (Yahweh). This is the divine name of God in the Hebrew Bible.



User
So it says "Yahweh rained down sulfur and fire... from Yahweh"?

ChatGPT
Yes, that's correct. The verse states that Yahweh (the Lord) rained down sulfur and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, and it specifies that it was from Yahweh, indicating divine intervention.



User
Does this verse contain the word "elohim"?

ChatGPT
No, the word "elohim" does not appear in Genesis 19:24. The verse specifically uses the divine name "Yahweh" to refer to God.



User
Thank you.

ChatGPT
You're welcome! If you have any more questions or need further assistance, feel free to ask.
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Every word is correct. I must try out that ChatGPT one day.
 
forgiven61 said:
24 Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven; i fail to see your point
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Forgiven Origin be pointing to the two Jehovahs. One in heaven and one upon the earth though not Christ incarnate in the flesh as yet but still fully God plural nevertheless just as with the burning bush unto Moses or like the blazing heavenly pillar that guided that Hebrews from the exodus.
 
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Prim90 said:
Forgiven Origin be pointing to the two Jehovahs. One in heaven and one upon the earth though not Christ incarnate in the flesh as yet but still fully God plural nevertheless just as with the burning bush unto Moses or like the blazing heavenly pillar that guided that Hebrews from the exodus.
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there is only one God not Gods one Lord one faith not plural
 
forgiven61 said:
there is only one God not Gods one Lord one faith not plural
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Well Forgiven me can’t ever remembering writing the ( gods ) in post 9. there certainly only be one True God. The God that expresses himself in PLURIALITY. GOD the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit these three be ONE. We not know how the trinity fully works. No one really does. But we know what scripture clearly tells us. And that is God is plural When Ananias and Sapphira kept back part of the possessions and lied about it in Acts chapter 5:1-4 they not only lied to their brethren but they had also lied to God the Holy Ghost. When God the Father calls himself the First and the Last . We also find in the the book of Revelations that the Jesus very much lays claim to those words also ( I Am the First and the Last ) And doubles down I am Alpha & Omega. D1AC272B-C08A-4AF1-8404-0D1D1B4467B1.jpeg Yes there be many that claim the plurality of the individual gods of this world or even 3 seperate gods as one they be numerous. But our God claims plurality also and is yet only One GOD. Me just tries to accept what the scripture says. If we take the plurality away than we back to Judaism
 
Prim90 said:
gods
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God the only Gods is in a false god the rest is used as God's. which does not make Him plural as in many . i cant help what others claim one Lord one faith one baptism
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4 the God of Abraham Jacob and israel . the God who gave his only son. to die for us. the God who will judge the secrets of man heart
 
forgiven61 said:
God the only Gods is in a false god the rest is used as God's. which does not make Him plural as in many . i cant help what others claim one Lord one faith one baptism
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4 the God of Abraham Jacob and israel . the God who gave his only son. to die for us. the God who will judge the secrets of man heart
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We not speak of 3 gods when referring to the One True God we speak of 3 persons being the essence of the One True God. You mention one Lord, one faith one baptism and one God being the Father of all. But I not hear you write so much about Jesus being Lord. Are you any way trying to refer that the Father is superior to the other persons of the Godhead? And again Forgiven me do ask if you deny the plurality of the Godhead than we have no Godhead
 
Prim90 said:
if you deny the plurality of the Godhead than we have no Godhead
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i have not denied anything.. other than 3 gods we have GOD THE FATHER GOD THE SON GOD THE HOLY GHOST each one is separate has separate ministries. personally when i read the o.p i found it a bit left field theology.

Colossians 1:16-20

King James Version

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16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
 
forgiven61 said:
i have not denied anything.. other than 3 gods we have GOD THE FATHER GOD THE SON GOD THE HOLY GHOST each one is separate has separate ministries. personally when i read the o.p i found it a bit left field theology.

Colossians 1:16-20​

​

King James Version​

​

​

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
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Forgiven the word plural is not a dirty word Actually the word God in Genesis 1:1 is plural you could say impregnated with plurality such is the emphasis placed on word Elohim. And again in Duet 6:4 ( the lord your God ) there be many more examples. Christian thought be this. That we are dealing with 3 persons in our trinity and not 3 seperate or individual gods this 3 persons be one God. That is our understanding more so with the revealing of the New Testament which does now shed much light on the plurality of our God when considering the Old Testament . We have no problem with Colossians. It in no way challenges the plurality of God. Perhaps put a search in for plural trinity or God plural or plurality you will be amazed at the vast riches of the word. The word Plural certainly isn’t boxed in to merely meaning only individual gods or many gods which would be contrary to what Christianity believes, If that were the case. With what Christian believe is that God is plural in 3 persons yet one God. There be nothing wrong in using the word plural in the sense of 3 persons. All Origin is showing us in Genesis 19:24 is another example of the Godhead at work with the 2 Jehovah’s mentioned and not two seperate gods.
 
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Origen said:
I think that many people simply gloss over Genesis 19:24 without giving it due diligence. Everyone is pretty much in agreement that Genesis 18:1-19:25 is a theophany. That is why I find it so odd that Genesis 19:24 is rarely even mentioned.

"Then Yahweh rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from Yahweh out of heaven."

Essentially what we have is: "YHVH rained... ...from YHVH in heaven." Thus there appears to be two Yahwehs. One Yahweh on Earth (i.e. Sodom and Gomorrah) who brings down sulfur and fire from Yahweh who in heaven.

Thought?
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Through the teaching of the late Michael Heiser i saw this. Beforehand, by reading study Bible's some explained this away as Melchizedek, which confused me and caused me to just proceed with my reading and let the Holy Spirit guide me.

I think its things like this, that cause some people to believe there are contradictions in the Bible, when if we as Christians have answers to these things, that fit with the rest of scripture, many more eyes would be opened.
 
Scooter said:
I think its things like this, that cause some people to believe there are contradictions in the Bible, when if we as Christians have answers to these things, that fit with the rest of scripture, many more eyes would be opened.
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I could not agree more. Thank you.
 
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