First Church?

[MichaelH]

MichaelH...you've reverted to a pretty vile and flawed argument. You looked for pictures and found this. Did you look for facts? Did you read about Pope Pius XII's aid to the victims of the holocaust -- 5,000 Jews in Rome alone saved by the efforts of the Pope. People like St. Maximilian Kolbe, a Franciscan friar who put his life down at Auschwitz for a man he didn't know.

Someone once said "Anti-Catholicism is the thinking man's Anti-Semitism." Don't prove this guy right, MichaelH.

If you have those articles then please provide them. History clearly states with records that Hitler signed an agreement with the Catholic Church. This was to provide the right of Rome in Germany. Cardinal Faulhaber helped negotiate the concordant with Hitler saying.

"At a time when the heads of the major nations in the world faced the new Germany with cool reserve and considerable suspicion, the Catholic Church, the greatest moral power on earth, through the Concordat expressed its confidence in the new German government.

This is a indisputable Historic fact.

Faulhaber believed the New Germany would not make it in power without solid christian beliefs. Though there is no history of him saying this, my guess is that after 1938 he regretted any dealing with Hitler, but the damage had already been done.

This knowledge though did not stop high ranking Catholic officials raising their hand to hail Hitler. Something Rome should never have endorsed.

Pope Pius XII
I can't judge this man. It's easy to look back and say this could have been different and that could have been different. He was surrounded by Nazi's on all sides and kept pretty quite. He later spoke out against what Germany was doing but had no power to do nothing.
He did support the concentration camp in Croatia and recorded telegrams with Pavelic who with Muslim and Cathloic clerics were committing some horrible crimes against human beings.
Pavelic was a monster and in 1938 was about to be tried for serious war crimes but Pius gave him sanctuary. One can only guess why.
I am not opposed to having mercy on even the most vile of human being despite any act they have committed. It was a very confusing time then.

In 2002 there was a massive court case looking for lots of wealth that vanished between Pius and pavelic. Certain parties in California are trying to find out exactly what happened also as they feel some of that lost wealth belongs to them.

LysanderShapiro

Thank you for the respect in providing facts instead of drawing crazy conclusions. I myself only want facts, and I already stated that despite what Rome did at this time (If much of anything), it would not necessarily be conductive to the current heart condition of Modern day Catholics. Any conversation I was having was between me and Michael B, I am unclear as to when I addressed Rosa or anyone else making crazy accusations without first reading what exactly was said.

Michael H. before i address your accusations, i would like to know is Word of Faith a theology church based on Calvin, or Lutheran, or what may i ask... thanks

I will say this ONE MORE TIME. Please write it down so you don't forget.
Word of Faith is not a denomination that any so called Word of Faith ministers had come up with. We can thank our traditional denominations for giving that tag and creating a new denomination. The earliest I can trace the term "Word of Faith" to describe certain teaching is 1979. The term did not really catch on until 1990 though.

The Word of Faith message does not have any foundation of consistency because many things get Labeled Word of Faith. It's not like Cathartics, 7th day Adventist or even Baptist who have a solid root doctrine someone can look up and follow. Many things have been labeled Word of Faith, so if it gets labeled Word of Faith then it must be because there is no agreeing doctrine to base the term on.

The first concept of what all Word of Faith have in common is Mark 11:23.................... They believe what Jesus said that you do have what you say. How that is taught can vary though from crazy things to just what the scripture says.

Benny Hinn is often considered Word of Faith, but if you ever watched brother Hinn, you find he does not teach anything from the bible. He just got the term also despite the fact He teaches nothing but stands and calls for the Holy Spirit to do something.

So it's not a denomination....................... It's nothing you can understand then understand all ministers who got labeled Word of faith. It's not like being 7th Day Adventist, or Catholic but an expression thrown at people who teach God wants to bless and heal you.

The term used to be Full gospel as there is Healing in the full gospel and pentecostal where the branch off came from. Pentecostals in the early 1900's would be considered Word of Faith today. As some groups changed like AOG through the years then they needed another name to describe what has always been.

I do not support Luthor or Calvin.

i do hope all can see as i do right thru you, using this forum beating your chest and keep on boasting about your powers of healing , etc...

I also never mentioned one time about having any power or ability to heal. I would ask that you find where I mentioned that but It would be wasting your time. Pay attention to what your reading, if you have questions about a comment ask for the scripture to back it.
I back everything with scripture when it comes to healing and believing the Word. If you think I am off then use something called "SCRIPTURE" and show me. If I am wrong then I am wrong and will admit it.

If i make a statement about the Word I can't back with scripture then show me. Just yesterday River Jordan called me on a comment and though there was not conclusive evidence I was wrong there was not conclusive evidence I was right either and I admitted to River Jordan as such.

All I am asking is that others respect the Word of God which I don't think is to hard to ask on a Christian site. I don't mind being wrong, as I want to believe right.

blessings.

 

[ixoye_8]

I also never mentioned one time about having any power or ability to heal. I would ask that you find where I mentioned that but It would be wasting your time.

the last post on the page ..
perhaps you forgot ..
however in your defense, I do not think you bragged ..

Example:
I lay hands on the sick and they always recover. Every sickness with a name must bow to the name of Jesus, every thing not right in a persons life has a name and must bow in the Name of Jesus. When I lay hands on the sick in the name of Jesus, they always recover because Jesus said they would. That is a fact as the Lord always goes with me performing his word with signs following.

I know that is just basic stuff as Paul said let us not go back to milk and laying on of hands, but that is where I was at back then. I did not want to run into a "What if they don't get healed, then what? What if I look bad?" I am not the healer and it's not up to us to perform the Word, we just deliver the message. Recover does not always mean instant as I also found out, but they will recover.

http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/for-rosa-vera.36301/

 

[Michael B]

Matthew 23:9
King James Version (KJV)

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

There is the verse he is meaning in the spirit, you can distort it anu way you want, but the way its read is the way it is read, obelisk, priest being celibate, money, what you call your priest, idols, praying to someone other than Jesus, none of these are in The Word. Dislike the past events from your church, but the harlot church will be drunk on the blood of the martyrs, how many people have been killed in all the inquisitions?

 

[Michael B]

the last post on the page ..
perhaps you forgot ..
however in your defense, I do not think you bragged ..

Example:
I lay hands on the sick and they always recover. Every sickness with a name must bow to the name of Jesus, every thing not right in a persons life has a name and must bow in the Name of Jesus. When I lay hands on the sick in the name of Jesus, they always recover because Jesus said they would. That is a fact as the Lord always goes with me performing his word with signs following.

I know that is just basic stuff as Paul said let us not go back to milk and laying on of hands, but that is where I was at back then. I did not want to run into a "What if they don't get healed, then what? What if I look bad?" I am not the healer and it's not up to us to perform the Word, we just deliver the message. Recover does not always mean instant as I also found out, but they will recover.

http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/for-rosa-vera.36301/

Mark 16:15-20
King James Version (KJV)

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

And they shall recover.

 

[MichaelH]

the last post on the page ..
perhaps you forgot ..
however in your defense, I do not think you bragged ..

Example:
I lay hands on the sick and they always recover. Every sickness with a name must bow to the name of Jesus, every thing not right in a persons life has a name and must bow in the Name of Jesus. When I lay hands on the sick in the name of Jesus, they always recover because Jesus said they would. That is a fact as the Lord always goes with me performing his word with signs following.

I know that is just basic stuff as Paul said let us not go back to milk and laying on of hands, but that is where I was at back then. I did not want to run into a "What if they don't get healed, then what? What if I look bad?" I am not the healer and it's not up to us to perform the Word, we just deliver the message. Recover does not always mean instant as I also found out, but they will recover.

http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/for-rosa-vera.36301/

Thank you I appreciate that. Jesus said those that believe on Me shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. My part is to just believe what Jesus said. Peter saying to the man at gate beautiful, "In the name of Jesus rise and Walk- taking action and pulling the man up" Peter went on to explain it was by the authority in the name of Jesus that the man was made whole for no other name has been given to men by which they must be saved.

I have absolute no healing ability in me, nor can I heal anyone by my will. The bible talks a lot about the person also believing and receiving. Jesus saying according to your faith so it be done unto you. Our part is just to do what the Word says do, nothing doubting. The Lord worked with them confirming the Word with signs following.

If you read about Healing in the bible, you find that healing comes normally at the direction of the Lord. Jesus just did not heal everyone by laying hands on them, one women came and grabbed healing, and the centurion just said speak the word only and my servant shall be healed. One man had mud in his eyes, Jesus just said come forth to Lazurus. Paul preaching perceived a man had faith to be healed on his own and said rise and walk.

One time in a prayer circle with about 10 guys this new guy shows up. Someone was praying and the Lord said to me, "I want you to walk over to that man (The guy I have not met yet or talked to) and speak to his neck and back. Tell the neck and back to be healed, be whole in my name"

I waited on the prayer person and ask if I could have just a moment before He continued and did what I was told. I walked over to the guy and spoke to his neck and back. Healed instantly of something that has plagued him his whole adult life.
How hard is that? I did nothing but just obey.
The guy though did not come back for a couple months because He got scared and thought I was some super holy person to have that power. I believe we were able to get him straight on that though as some of the men went to talk with him. He has been healed since though.

Miracles are simple................... get direction and follow it. Nothing else to do on our part. As Mary told them boys filling those jugs of water at the wedding......... Whatever He says do, you boy just do. The Water became wine............

Blessings,.

 

[MichaelH]

Matthew 23:9
King James Version (KJV)

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

There is the verse he is meaning in the spirit, you can distort it anu way you want, but the way its read is the way it is read, obelisk, priest being celibate, money, what you call your priest, idols, praying to someone other than Jesus, none of these are in The Word. Dislike the past events from your church, but the harlot church will be drunk on the blood of the martyrs, how many people have been killed in all the inquisitions?

I personally want what is true. I found some bad evidence against the Catholic Church and some shady deals with Hitler that are historical fact. I also found by 1938 Some of Rome was protesting Hitler, but not really doing anything to stop him. I am not sure they could anyway. Hitler had planned to remove the Pope and set up a puppet pope and move the Vatican to Germany. We stopped him before that happened.

Though some things Historically true, I have to ask if I would want to be thrown in with the corrupt if I was Catholic. If I am ignorant then I am ignorant. Calvin and some others that were not Catholic have some shady things also. The time of the inquisition we would have to admit that most everyone was superstitious and ignorant anyway. Not just Catholics.

Though History be true, I have to ask how does it apply now? I think everyone would love to believe that what they are part of has always been pure and spot on right with no goof ups. Only in fairy tales though.

The question is.................. What was the first church. The Catholic Church was the first Organized church after acts. That is a fact and all else were those that broke away from the Catholic church (Cept one other group but it was more a divided about the divinity of Jesus)

Do I see any denomination that I can spot clearly in acts that I can pinpoint to today? I can't......................

 

[ixoye_8]

you can distort it anu way you want, but the way its read is the way it is read, obelisk, priest being celibate, money, what you call your priest, idols, praying to someone other than Jesus, none of these are in The Word. Dislike the past events from your church, but the harlot church will be drunk on the blood of the martyrs, how many people have been killed in all the inquisitions?

no .. I told you the word NO is not in the Greek .. men translated scripture .. the bible does not always say what scripture says ..
if it was as the bible says .. then the Father, Jesus, Peter & Paul did it .. and you make Jesus into a hypocrite ..

as to your last question .. half of the inquisitions of Europe was done by the Protestant Church and all of them in Colonial America ..

past sins of some men .. not sins of parishioners .. by your logic, then Protestant Church is a harlot drunk on the blood as well ..

perhaps you didn't know Martin Luther came up with his 95 thesis while sitting on the toilet ..

 

[ixoye_8]

what is wrong with Priest being celibate ???
Paul recommended those who preach God's word to be ..

1Cr 7:8 But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I.
1Cr 7:9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

 

[ixoye_8]

perhaps you didn't know Martin Luther came up with his 95 thesis while sitting on the toilet ..

WILL THE REAL MARTIN LUTHER PLEASE SIT DOWN
yah .. on das Klo is fine ..

Martin Luther himself noted, in two after-dinner speeches (Nos. 1681 and 3232b),
that Protestantism was born in the sewer. (the 95 Theses)

in his own words ..
“The spiritus sanctus (Holy Spirit) imparted this creation to me on dis cloaca.” (sewer)

at his house in Wittenberg, they found his large annexed outhouse with books, quills and stylus .. and a stone toilet sitting over a sewer ..

not only that ..
they found out he lied about his family being poor ..

they were very rich ..

and he lied about lightning almost striking him why he ran away to the Abby ..

he was running away from an arranged marriage ..

they also found 250 silver coins hidden in his house ..
and dead cats in his garbage ..

he also ate a lot and drank a lot of beer, and had to have his 330 lbs self taken to his lectures in a wheel barrel ..

and while at home chased the devil with farts (his own words) ..

I almost forgot .. one of Adolf Hitler's favorite books was the self-proclaimed “doctor above all doctors in the entire papacy” (got to love his humility) Martin Luther's "On the Jews and their Lies" (1543) ..

excerpt ..
Did I not tell you earlier that a Jew is such a noble, precious jewel that God and all the angels dance when he farts? And if he were to go on to do something coarser than that, they would nevertheless expect it to be regarded as a golden Talmud.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Matthew 23:9
King James Version (KJV)

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

There is the verse he is meaning in the spirit, you can distort it anu way you want, but the way its read is the way it is read, obelisk, priest being celibate, money, what you call your priest, idols, praying to someone other than Jesus, none of these are in The Word. Dislike the past events from your church, but the harlot church will be drunk on the blood of the martyrs, how many people have been killed in all the inquisitions?

This is one of the many responses against the Catholic Church, and I actually think it's one of the fair ones to ask as it seems so straightforward.

To forbid it would rob the address "Father" of its meaning when applied to God -- there would no longer be any earthly counterpart for the analogy of divine Fatherhood. The concept of God’s role as Father would be meaningless if we obliterated the concept of earthly fatherhood.

So here's the response to that...

Jesus criticized Jewish leaders who love "the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men" (Matthew 23:6–7). His point here is a response to the Pharisees’ proud hearts and their grasping after marks of status and prestige. Matthew 23:9 is responding to this mis-titling of the word rather than the word itself, as well as recognizing the one, true Father in heaven. Otherwise there would be a series of verses that would have to be removed from the Bible...

1 John 2:13-14 says "I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one."

The author was speaking directly to Church elders as he addressed them as "Father."


But that's only one verse...here's another.

Acts 7:1-2 says "The high priest said, 'Are these things so?' And he said, 'Hear me, brethren and fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran,"

Here, the word "father" was used twice, but I think it holds more weight when he addressed Abraham as "Father Abraham" because of his position as an elder that everyone knew. (You can also see this title being used in Luke 16:24). In Luke 16:27, it says "And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house—" -- He wasn't talking to his own father when he called Abraham "Father Abraham" (He being the rich man in 'the bosom' as responding about Lazarus). And then he says it again in verse 30.

In Acts 22:1, Paul says “Brethren and fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you.”

Most significantly in Matthew 23:32 (only a few verses later from the one you referenced), it says "

He is not forbidding the perfunctory use of honorifics nor forbidding us to recognize that the person does have a role as a spiritual father and teacher.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

MichaelH, you asked for links and references...

'Hitler's Pope' saved thousands of Jewish lives - the Telegraph

Documents Reveal Pius XII Saved 11,000 Roman Jews - ZENIT

Man Recalls How Pius XII His Jews in the Vatican - ZENIT

Pius XII 'secured visas for Jews' after Kristallnacht - The Catholic Herald

Vatican to Put Wartime Archives Online - CBS News

Friend to the Jews - New York Post

Pius XII's War Efforts Seen on Rediscovered Films - ZENIT

American Jew comes to the defense of Pius XII - National Catholic Reporter

Top Vatican official: Documents show Pius XII worked to help Jews - Catholic News Service

Pius XII: Hated or Revered by the Third Reich? - Catholic World News


Also, you wanted to also get info on St. Maximilian Kolbe...I'll a few basic articles on him (as his saving a stranger in the camps is what he is best known for). You can the the rest together...

Wikipedia - Maximilian Kolbe

Catholic Online - Maximilian Kolbe

EWTN - Who is Maximilian Kolbe?

Jewish Virtue Library - Maximilian Kolbe

Also check out

Bernhard Lichtenberg - German Catholic Priest Sent to Dachau because he prayed for Jews at Evening Prayer.

Rufino Niccacci, a Franciscan friar and priest who sheltered Jewish refugees in Assisi, Italy, from September 1943 through June 1944.

Sára Salkaházi - a Hungarian Roman Catholic nun who sheltered approximately 100 Jews in Budapest

Andrey Sheptytsky - Metropolitan Archbishop of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, harbored hundreds of Jews in his residence and in Greek Catholic monasteries. He also issued the pastoral letter, "Thou Shalt Not Kill", to protest Nazi atrocities.

Omelyan Kovch - Ukrainian Greek Catholic priest who was deported to Treblinka camp for helping thousands of Jews.

Alfred Delp S.J., a Jesuit priest who helped Jews escape to Switzerland while rector of St. Georg Church in suburban Munich

Do your homework

 

[MichaelH]

thank you for the links. That is what I like, someone that backs up things and not just runs their mouth saying silly things about bashing or this or that. Back it up or be quite please.

I will go over those, but looking I think with that law suite and things there was some shady things going on during the 1930's. It was a rough time though because of the pressure, but I am running into accounts of Catholics Helping out. I am not impressed with the current Pope though at that time or those Catholics in Germany. Then again I would have to judge unfairly because My life was not in danger and I can't say How I would respond. I would like to say I would have given Hitler the finger when it came time to raise my hand to him but it's easy to say that here at home behind a computer screen.

Thank you for sharing those, I'll go and read them.

Blessings.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

thank you for the links. That is what I like, someone that backs up things and not just runs their mouth saying silly things about bashing or this or that. Back it up or be quite please.

I will go over those, but looking I think with that law suite and things there was some shady things going on during the 1930's. It was a rough time though because of the pressure, but I am running into accounts of Catholics Helping out. I am not impressed with the current Pope though at that time or those Catholics in Germany. Then again I would have to judge unfairly because My life was not in danger and I can't say How I would respond. I would like to say I would have given Hitler the finger when it came time to raise my hand to him but it's easy to say that here at home behind a computer screen.

Thank you for sharing those, I'll go and read them.

Blessings.

You are quite welcome. There were many, many more links I could have provided (I only provided a fraction of I found from a quick search), but I figured this would at least suffice for now.

In your defense, there were probably clergymen and laity that didn't disapprove of Hitler's actions and looked the other way. However, this would've been going against Pope Pius' position...but even if Pope Pius dropped the ball, this wouldn't the Church's position either.

 

[MichaelH]

You are quite welcome. There were many, many more links I could have provided (I only provided a fraction of I found from a quick search), but I figured this would at least suffice for now.

In your defense, there were probably clergymen and laity that didn't disapprove of Hitler's actions and looked the other way. However, this would've been going against Pope Pius' position...but even if Pope Pius dropped the ball, this wouldn't the Church's position either.

Well, i read over your links some very interesting and informative. That is want I want, counter evidence to what I find so I can get things right. Scripture if at all possible.

The Pope Dropped the ball big time and so did the clergy in Germany. However later I read in 1938 there started to be some change of stance and bravery.

I was not there, my country was not surround by and evil army and my life was not in danger for not submitting to Hitler. Therefore I can't judge what it must have been like then and the pressure.

That is what I have concluded, shady things or not we can't imagine being in their shoes. I find the majority of those Catholics not next to Hitler were opposed to what was going on. The ones next to Hitler would have had to watch their step or be tortured and Killed.

As for the rest of the History and the Witch burnings, I can't really count those things because man was not to bright back in them days and very superstitious. Not just the Catholic church either.

I can be reasonable, I just need proof and wisdom.

blessings.

 

[Michael B]

This is one of the many responses against the Catholic Church, and I actually think it's one of the fair ones to ask as it seems so straightforward.

To forbid it would rob the address "Father" of its meaning when applied to God -- there would no longer be any earthly counterpart for the analogy of divine Fatherhood. The concept of God’s role as Father would be meaningless if we obliterated the concept of earthly fatherhood.

So here's the response to that...

Jesus criticized Jewish leaders who love "the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men" (Matthew 23:6–7). His point here is a response to the Pharisees’ proud hearts and their grasping after marks of status and prestige. Matthew 23:9 is responding to this mis-titling of the word rather than the word itself, as well as recognizing the one, true Father in heaven. Otherwise there would be a series of verses that would have to be removed from the Bible...

1 John 2:13-14 says "I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one."

The author was speaking directly to Church elders as he addressed them as "Father."


But that's only one verse...here's another.

Acts 7:1-2 says "The high priest said, 'Are these things so?' And he said, 'Hear me, brethren and fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran,"

Here, the word "father" was used twice, but I think it holds more weight when he addressed Abraham as "Father Abraham" because of his position as an elder that everyone knew. (You can also see this title being used in Luke 16:24). In Luke 16:27, it says "And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father’s house—" -- He wasn't talking to his own father when he called Abraham "Father Abraham" (He being the rich man in 'the bosom' as responding about Lazarus). And then he says it again in verse 30.

In Acts 22:1, Paul says “Brethren and fathers, hear my defense which I now offer to you.”

Most significantly in Matthew 23:32 (only a few verses later from the one you referenced), it says "

He is not forbidding the perfunctory use of honorifics nor forbidding us to recognize that the person does have a role as a spiritual father and teacher.

Matthew 23:27-32 KJV
[27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. [28] Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. [29] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, [30] And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. [31] Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. [32] Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. …

Ounce again earthly fathers,

Genesis 17:5 KJV
Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Genesis 26:3-5 KJV
[3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. …

Genesis 26:15 KJV
For all the wells which his father's servants had digged in the days of Abraham his father, the Philistines had stopped them, and filled them with earth.

Genesis26:24 KJV
And the Lord appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake.

There are many verses were father and Abraham is used in the same verse, naturally God multiplied Abrahams seed, whether he be Isaac father or the father of the seed, never spiritually that I came across yet have they called any mortal man in a spiritual sense father other than God.

 

[LysanderShapiro]

Matthew 23:27-32 KJV
[27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. [28] Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. [29] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, [30] And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. [31] Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. [32] Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. …

Ounce again earthly fathers,

Genesis 17:5 KJV
Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Genesis 26:3-5 KJV
[3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, and unto thy seed, I will give all these countries, and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. …

Genesis 26:15 KJV
For all the wells which his father's servants had digged in the days of Abraham his father, the Philistines had stopped them, and filled them with earth.

Genesis26:24 KJV
And the Lord appeared unto him the same night, and said, I am the God of Abraham thy father: fear not, for I am with thee, and will bless thee, and multiply thy seed for my servant Abraham's sake.

There are many verses were father and Abraham is used in the same verse, naturally God multiplied Abrahams seed, whether he be Isaac father or the father of the seed, never spiritually that I came across yet have they called any mortal man in a spiritual sense father other than God.

Out of curiosity, what do you think it means when a Catholic calls a priest "father"?

 

[Michael B]

Out of curiosity, what do you think it means when a Catholic calls a priest "father"?

From what I understand the term is used in a spiritual aspect as in to infer that the priest is some how, referring himself as a leader, or as a go between.

 

[ixoye_8]

From what I understand the term is used in a spiritual aspect as in to infer that the priest is some how, referring himself as a leader, or as a go between.

that is correct, a spiritual leader ..
in the same way Paul and Peter used it ..
I ask you this .. how is it all the Apostles set up spiritual leaders ???
episkopos (bishops) diakonos (deacons) & presbyteros (elders) yet God has a problem with semantics ???
or Jesus appointing the Apostles to be the Spiritual leaders ???
NO .. it is like I told you .. the verse is saying to not "call upon them" to save you .. even the gift of teaching takes a spiritual leading role as you aid those not taught by the HS ..
or EVERY church of EVERY denomination has a spiritual leader ???

KJV
1Cr 4:14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.

KJV
1Cr 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Peter did too .. calling his disciple John Mark "his son" is the same thing

yet you stick your head in the sand when I show you men erred in their translating ..
the Greek word οὐ (absolute negative) means "no, not or never" ..
and that word is NOT in the Greek in Mat 23:9 ..

 

[MichaelH]

that is correct .. in the same way Paul and Peter used it ..

KJV
1Cr 4:14 I write not these things to shame you, but as my beloved sons I warn you.

KJV
1Cr 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Peter did too .. calling his disciple John Mark "his son" is the same thing

yet you stick your head in the sand when I show you men erred in their translating ..
the Greek word οὐ (absolute negative) means "no, not or never" ..
and that word is NOT in the Greek in Mat 23:9 ..

My son does not call me Father either because of the Word. He calls me Biodad.

blessings.

 

[ixoye_8]

οὐ in the New Testament
Definitions

Thayer
1) no, not; in direct questions expecting an affirmative answer
Part of Speech: particle

Strong
G3756
ou – no ("not"). 3756 (ou) objectively negates a statement, "ruling it out as fact."

Winer's Grammar, 476 (444)
absolutely and accented, οὐ, nay, no

LSJ
οὐ, the negative of A fact and statement , as μή of will and thought ; οὐ denies, μή rejects; οὐ is absolute, μή relative; οὐ objective, μή subjective