Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by JustPassingThru, Jul 3, 2013.
Excellent calvin. I guess that is way the thread went so far off course.!!
It's not off course at all...Just not flowing your way, IMO.
Stan: How has that Holman translation clarified "apparent" contradictions for you?
Seeing that there are no contradictions listed, I will list one for you that has been asked of me a long time ago.
"Those that seek me early shall find me" (Proverbs 8:17 contradicts "they shall seek me early, but shall not find me" (Proverbs 1:28).
Is there a contradiction here??? No! Once again we see that it is a lack of Bible understanding.
Proverbs 8:17 is in reference to those who "love" the Lord. Proverbs 1:28 is in reference to fools (verse 7) and sinners (verse 9), who do not love the Lord. Proverbs 1:28 is dealing with sinners who are in calamity, distress, and anguish (verses 26-27) and despise the knowledge of God (verses 29-30), who are seeking God out of selfishness, not a repentant heart.
I haven't found any in it Rusty, and I use it mostly when studying scriptures to get a complete sense of what the Greek is saying. I like it though and the fact that is was a free download for my Blackberry Playbook did hurt either.
I mostly use MOUNCE for NT reading and NIV for OT. I try to quote from the NIV mostly to maintain consistency in style and language.
The lack of posted "contradictions" indicates that there are none to be posted!
Praise the Lord!
Exodus 33:11 And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God. The One and Only Son-- the One who is at the Father's side-- He has revealed Him.
Luke 8:26Then they sailed to the country of the Gerasenes, which is opposite Galilee.27And when He came out onto the land, He was met by a man from the city who was possessed with demons; and who had not put on any clothing for a long time, and was not living in a house, but in the tombs.
Matthew 8:28 aWhen He came to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were bdemon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs. They were so extremely violent that no one could pass by that way.
The word LORD is a reference to the Son of God in the Old Testament, when Moses was speaking to Him, God was on the Mercy Seat, Moses and Joshua saw the glory of the Lord between the Cherubim on the Mercy Seat.
John 1:18 is John the Baptist talking and he is saying the Son of God came to reveal the character of the Father, don't forget the Word laid aside His supernatural power and humbled Himself to become a man, all the miracles Jesus did were by the Holy Spirit.
Matthew is an eyewitness account, Luke gathered his information from others, however a clue to these verses is found in Googling the names of the two cities, if you are interested.
This is the physical manifestation of God in the OT, NOT God. God is spirit. You can't see spirit. God manifested Himself a few times in this way. He walked in the furnace with Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego. He wrestled Jacob. He was Melchizedek.
This is NOT a contradiction. Some say Matthew attested to both as a matter of true witness whereas Luke 8 and Mark 5 only addressed the one demoniac that was demonstrably the dangerous one. There is a doublet history in Matthew that stems from the allegations that Matthew did NOT actually view these occurrences. The following article may help sort that out.
In any event, neither of these are CONTRADICTIONS.
Can God be Seen?
The Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaks with his friend. Exodus 33:11 No one has ever seen God... John 1:18
In the first verse, the Hebrew idiom for face to face translates into English as without a mediator. This verse does not imply Moses physically seeing the face of God but that he was able to communicate with God as a man. This explanation is given once we read the context:
Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory." And the Lord said, "I will cause all my goodness to pass in front of you... "But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live." Then the Lord said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back. But my face must not be seen." Exodus 33:18-23
God can appear to us as a physical manifestation but He does not appear to us in full glory.
However, we seem to find ourselves in a bit of a predicament with the verse in Genesis 32:30: So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, 'It is because I saw God [Elohim] face to face, and yet my life was spared.' Again we see the Hebrew idiom face to face referring to without a mediator.
The words "yet my life was spared" as a possible reference to his struggle with God in Genesis 32:22-30 (and not necessarily a reference to him seeing ("God's glory"). Lastly, the context shows Jacob struggling with a manifestation of God and not God's glory (Then Jacob was left alone, and a man (iysh) wrestled with him until daybreak.
Two men (Matt. 8:28) - "And when He had come to the other side into the country of the Gadarenes, two men who were demon-possessed met Him as they were coming out of the tombs; they were so exceedingly violent that no one could pass by that road."
One man (Mark 5:1-2) - "And they came to the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gerasenes. 2And when He had come out of the boat, immediately a man from the tombs with an unclean spirit met Him,"
One man (Luke 8:26-27) - "And they sailed to the country of the Gerasenes, which is opposite Galilee. 27And when He had come out onto the land, He was met by a certain man from the city who was possessed with demons; and who had not put on any clothing for a long time, and was not living in a house, but in the tombs."
A contradiction occurs only when one statement makes the other impossible. If Mark or Luke said that only one demoniac came to Jesus while Matthew says that two came out, that would be a contradiction. If there are two demoniacs, there is certainly at least one; therefore, there is no contradiction.
There is a useful book called " Alleged discrepancies of the Bible "
pub'd by. Whittaker House..
Google it.......I will do later and put it on my website.
During ministry today, my leader stated that there are numerous contradictions in Proverbs. She then brushed it off. Thoughts?
That reflects a lack of study (or lack of belief). The so called 'contradictions' disappear when one does enough study.
As Mr. Darby said. In addition, proverbs though inspired are not considered to be exclusively Hebrew in origen. What this means is that context and idiom can play havoc with unskilled study.
Someone who is leading should have an understanding of what they are doing.
It is always a matter of deeper study to get to the bottom of anything.
Sounds like it was just some offhanded comment. Unless she provides more details, or shows signs of weak theology in later sermons, I'd file it in the back of my mind because there really isn't a lot to be done with that. Contradictions don't mean they are unresolvable, only that when read, they appear to disagree. They can always be resolved eventually, either definitively by digging deeper and deeper to find the context, or at least passably by finding one of possibly dozens of solutions. In the end, I stick by the Bible.