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Cain and Judas

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by JeremiahD84, Jan 5, 2008.

  1. Cain and Judas

    So, I'm curious.....
    Are Cain and Judas in Hell?
    Both men are capable of being forgiven right?
    So is it possible that they were and are in Heaven?
    Please tell me what you guys know about the situation.
  2. Thats a great question. Right off the bat, I thought, no, but then after thinking some more, I realized I have no clue. Judas showed remorse and great grief after he handed over Jesus, so much so that he threw the blood money away and took his own life. Would this be considered evidence of a new belief and repentance for his sin, or simply guilt because he knew Jesus did not deserve to die, as he said in Matthew 27:3-4

    As for Cain, There is no account of the manner in which he died that I could find. God showed him mercy, in the face of his sin, by cursing anyone who killed him with His vengeance seven times, but He is never said to have looked favorably on Cain. I'd guess no, Cain is not in Heaven
  3. Jesus did say, (i'm paraphrasing) "Woe unto him who betrays the Son of Man."

    And as for Cain, he fled from God. I cannot see him in the same place as his brother
  4. It's likely that Judas will stand before the judgement of sin.. he did after all commit 'Satan's shortcut to hell', suicide.
    However, Cain.. we do not know what happened later on in his life, it might appear as that he repented, but this is something that we may only know when we enter paradise.
  5. It's not something I put a lot of thought into. Cain would have been under the old law, even BEFORE the law of Abraham, and he was punished immediately and specifically for his sin. So, I don't really see any reason to say that repentance would be impossible, at least in theory. There are, however, some other circumstances surrounding Cain that could pose other issues, but for the sake of *THIS* discussion, they aren't important. Cain had as much chance as Adam or Eve. They sinned, and he sinned. They were punished, and he was punished.

    As for Judas...it's a bit harder to make any real discussion about this. We don't know the exact circumstances surrounding his death exactly, nor his motives. Though, I do remember a verse that describes how Satan entered into Judas before the betrayal.
  6. I hear this a lot, but I've never seen any biblical evidence to back it up. But if thats the case then King Saul and Samson are in hell too, I'm sure more people in the Bible had committed suicide, but these are the only two the come to mind.
  7. According to SCRIPTURE, anyone who sins has the ability to repent of those sins and if that is accomplished, it is then up to God to sort it out.

    In Mathew 27:3 (KJV) we are told that Judas was filled with remorse and we can probably take that as Judas repenting. There is also good evidence in the original Greek manuscripts that Judas was murdered by the temple priests rather than committing suicide. Judas threw the silver coins back in the faces of the temple priests who had contracted with him to betray Jesus. Those priests could NOT allow Judas to tell the true story to anyone, so they killed him to silence him. Your insides do not gush out unless you have some "help". Acts 1:18 (KJV)

    Cain is not written of directly in scripture past Genesis 4 and his possible repentence is not spoken of. However, it is highly unlikely that he did repent based upon other scripture. Christ was speaking to the Pharisees and Kenites and mentioned something quite interesting in John 8:44 (KJV). < (Click highlight for text). Christ would have known if Cain had repented, so it is a pretty good bet that Cain was not remorseful, while Judas was.


  8. What i'm about to cover is alittle off topic, but considering I started the thread, it's ok. Plus I just couldn't resist....
    I absolutely DO NOT believe that suicide is a short cut to hell. No where in the Bible is it called the unforgiveable sin. We know that the only unforgiveable sin is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
    Jesus' forgiveness covers all transgressions, past, present and future. Surely suicide does not nullify His forgiveness.

    Now if Jesus is not your savior and you commit suicide then thats a different story... it wouldn't matter how you die, until you accept Jesus as King, all deaths lead to Hell.
  9. Jesus told the Father He only lost one and that one was lost to fulfill scripture. I believe Judas was eternally lost. But as far as that goes he or Cain or anyone else who call's on God with a repentant heart could be saved. I guess only God knows that answer as He wasn't specific in His Word on that subject.
  10. Hi guys,

    I thought this was an interesting discussion. It was enough to make me join.

    I agree with the brother and his last post. John 17:12 clearly pronounces eternal damnation upon Judas by the Lord, Himself.

    Also, Matthew 26:24 says...

    The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

    So it appears Judas is condemned.

    As for Cain...

    In Hebrew 11:4, talking of faith, it's said Abel had faith and Cain didn't. The context is saving faith by the way.

    Also, in Jude 11, Cain is lumped in with Balaam and Korah, both men who died in their sins and were counted with evil, false teachers.

    Hope this helps.

  12. Thank you all so much for your insights on the matter. This discussion has really helped me understand better.

    God Bless those in Christ!
  13. This is something that I wondered from time to time, too.

    Like the question that I posted about Pharaoh...was he actually doing good in the eyes of God? Because God Himself was hardening the heart of Pharaoh so that God's will would eventually be done.

    Like with Judas. The Son of Man had to be sacrificed. That was God's will...the cup could not pass from Jesus. God knew what was going to happen before it had happened.

    So Judas had no other choice but to betray the Son of Man. It had to take place for all of the other events to fall into line. What would have happened to Jesus that night if Judas had resisted...if he had not betrayed the Son of Man with a kiss?

    Jesus knew from the beginning that Judas would betray Him. Would it be sinful for Judas to NOT betray his Master? "It would be better for that man to not have been born at all." So was Judas destined to sin no matter which way he went? Betray the Son of Man and sin. Resist doing what must take place - go against the Will of God - and sin. A no win situation?

    As for Cain...didn't he already suffer his punishment? He received a mark on his body and was cast out. Was that his punishment? Was it over then? Had he paid the price then for murdering?

    Sorry - I feel like I'm adding more wax to the boiling pot. But these questions come up and itch in places where I can't reach them alone.:eek:
  14. I never really thought much about it.
    But now it makes me wonder, Cain was before the law of Abraham. And what about Adam and Eve? Did Got just punish them for their sins and that was the end of it? They didn't really no how to repent back then.
  15. Rom 9:14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
    Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
    Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
    Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
    Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
    Rom 9:19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
    Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
    Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
    Rom 9:22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
  16. For da-man,

    Your question about what happened before the law is answered in Hebrews 11.

    It said that those before the law were saved from their sins the same way those in the Christian era are...

    ...by faith in the one true God.

    Also, Romans 1 gives us an interesting angle regarding those evil who existed before the law. It said that some denied Him.


    By rejecting what they knew in their conscience and saw in creation (Romans 1:18-20.)

    I deal with a similar subject on my website...


    Hope this helps.

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