Baptism

Discussion in 'Biblical Advices' started by Born2LoveYou, Aug 12, 2007.



  1. No, what i am saying is that baptism in water and baptism in the Holy Spirit are both necassary for salvation for those that believe today. There are two cases in scripture when the Spirit come First Pentecost and Cornelius,Now all the other cases the People where baptized first and then recieved the Holy Spirit, and that is how it happens today,unless you can prove that when you where saved there was a mighty rushing wind and divided tounges of fire settled on you then you will not be able to use pentecost and cornelius as an example of how a person is saved today, as pentecost was a one of event and so was the acceptance of the Gentiles. Can you now defend your taking the scripture out of context as i have shown you did earlier,if you conseed that i am right then please let me know otherwise can you please explain to me your using these scriptures as i do not want to miss understand you.

    God Bless You Boanerges
    d2m
     
  2. I am not trying to confuse anyone, perhaps I am not putting this clearly enough- My point is that these people were indeed saved before they were baptized or they would not have received the Holy Spirit- that is not out of context but is a chronological fact.
    also Pentecost or the outpouring of the Holy Ghost is indeed an ongoing event as I have expierienced it myself
     
  3. Please tell me what was it like to witness that mighty rushing wind and can you discribe what it was like for the divided tougnes of fire setteling on your head felt like?.

    Another chronological fact is after the conversion of cornelius this event of the Holy Spirit coming first never happened again, but what did happen was people where baptized and them recieved the Holy Spirit by the Laying on of hands.

    God Bless
    d2m

     
  4. But it did happen- therer are other scriptures on salvation that never mention baptism

    Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.


    Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    Act 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
    Act 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
    Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

    Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

    So if I get this right- you are saying that if I accept Jesus as my saviour and trip , hit my head and die on the way to the baptismal I am not saved?
     
  5. daniel2macarius I would like to say I respect your opinion on this matter and I wish to present my beliefs on the subject:

    Eph 2:8 For1063 by grace5485 are2075 ye saved4982 through1223 faith;4102 and2532 that5124 not3756 of1537 yourselves:5216itis the3588 gift1435 of God:2316
    Eph 2:9 Not3756 of1537 works,2041 lest3363 any man5100 should boast.2744

    Grace is the power, faith is the vehicle- not of works-
    G2041
    ἔργον
    ergon
    er'-gon
    From ἔργωergō (a primary but obsolete word; to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication an act: - deed, doing, labour, work.

    This is what I base my salvation on- I was gladly baptised as I love God's Word and want to be obediant but I find my salvation in Christ's redeeming sacrifice alone.

    Even if we disagree on this I consider you a brother and love you with the love of my LOrd- blessings on your day- bOther Larry
     
  6. Dear adonaicole,

    May God be with you!

    Then why did Christ Himself insist on baptism in the Holy Spirit and water? Why did the Apostles baptized whole households?

    God bless you.
     
  7. It is quite plain to me that :
    Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
    Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    Rom 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
    Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    salvation was always FOLLOWED by baptism as an act of obedience- baptise a lost soul and all he will get is wet- Jesus said it best-
    Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
    You must be born again to see, percieve or understand the kingdom of God, these are the Word's of Jesus Christ- so get saved and then go ahead and get wet- if needs be I will gladly dunk anyone who is ready - :D
     
  8. After i was born again last november, the Holy Spirit has definitely played a big role in my life. He convicts me of my sin and i know i have hurt my relationship with God due to my transgressions. But as Solomon said, although a righteous man falls, he will make his way back up to that place where he once was.
    As of now, although the temptation will never cease, if you put your love for God over the sinful ways, things will go well with you, and surely God will reward his faithful children handsomely.
     
  9. Dear CatholicWifeandMom,

    May God bless you and your family as well,

    Did Christ insist on baptism? Where does it state, "you must be baptised to be saved". On the contrary, it clearly states:

    Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    Belief is what is required. Abraham believed in God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. That doesn't mean that baptism is not desirable or important, it is, I've been baptised and so has my son, it's highly recommended. I just don't believe it's an absolute requirement. Was Jesus saved before he was baptised? Of course he was. I hope you understand the spirit of what I'm saying, I'm not trying to disagree with you, just trying to share what I believe.

    God bless you and your family,

    Don
     
  10. Dear adonaicole,

    May God be with you!

    Matt. 28:19-20 - Jesus commands the apostles to baptize all people "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit."



    Acts 2:38 - Peter commands them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in order to be actually forgiven of sin, not just to partake of a symbolic ritual.


    Matt. 28:19-20; Acts 2:38 - there is nothing in these passages or elsewhere in the Bible about baptism being symbolic. There is also nothing about just accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior in order to be saved.


    Mark 16:16 - Jesus said "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved." Jesus says believing is not enough. Baptism is also required. This is because baptism is salvific, not just symbolic. The Greek text also does not mandate any specific order for belief and baptism, so the verse proves nothing about a “believer’s baptism.â€


    John 3:3,5 - unless we are "born again" of water and Spirit in baptism, we cannot enter into the kingdom of God. The Greek word for the phrase "born again" is "anothen" which literally means “begotten from above.†See, for example, John 3:31 where "anothen" is so used. Baptism brings about salvation, not just a symbolism of our salvation.


    Acts 8:12-13; 36; 10:47 - if belief is all one needs to be saved, why is everyone instantly baptized after learning of Jesus?

    I realize that not all here believe as I do. But I do believe that baptism is necessary and for me the Scripture is quite plainly telling me so as well.

    There is more scriptural evidence for the necessity of baptism but I will leave it at this. Perhaps we will have to agree that we both interpret Scripture differently?!


    God bless you! May Christ be with you always!
     
  11. We can indeed view things differently and still fulfill our Lords call to " love ye one another"! :D
     
  12. Dear Boanerges,

    May God be with you!

    I think these say it all!! ;)

    Luke 24:15 And it happened that while they were conversing and debating, Jesus himself drew near and walked with them,

    1Peter 4:8 Above all, let your love for one another be intense, because love covers a multitude of sins.

    Matthew 22:36-40 36 "Teacher, which commandment in the law is the greatest?" 37 He said to him, "You shall love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the greatest and the first commandment. 39 The second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 The whole law and the prophets depend on these two commandments."


    God bless you!
     
  13. I agree with you good catholicwifeandmom.

    May God bless you and your family. To love the Lord your God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself is the sum of all commandments. I love the spirit of your posts and your great attitude, you are a blessing to us all.
     
  14. Hi, I guess this will be my 2nd post on the forum! It's great to see people with different view points respectfully, and peacefully expressing themselves. Anyway - back on topic - it's my understanding that there are 2 distinctly different baptisms. These are the baptism of John (water) and the baptism of Christ (fire). Going back to Acts 2:38-

    Then Peter said to them, Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins;
    and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    What this verse says to me is this:
    Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation! Baptism not in water, but in the name of Jesus Christ who through dying on the cross and returning to life completely took away our sins. Once we have experienced this baptism - we receive the gift of the Holy Spirit - LIFE! :dance:





     
  15. Indeed Brian.

    To answer one of the origianl questions- for a dead man the old man sure pops up a lot. We must be renewed in the spirit of our mind - in every area this occurs we are free in that particular area to expierience both the power of God and the reality of that truth.
     
  16. Very good point, i can relate to this. I was water baptized around the age of 10 or so. But it was not until last November when i was Baptized in the fire so to speak. Surely this is when the Holy Spirit was given to me, now i have eyes that can see and a new understanding of God's Word. Amen
     
  17. These are two short essay i wrote on baptism, i know not all will agree, but this is what i believe.


    Just believe or believe and be baptized
    Every generation has the thoughts that prevail in it and studies that conform with it and its ministers should not live in a different generation unaware of the wars faced by their children and even them selfs so some wars even affect many generations.This is why it is important to know the scriptures and to interpret them correctly, in this article we will have a look at what what the Holy Bible speaks about baptism and how the apostles and first and second century church interpreted them. So let us start with this verse’s from the Bible,

    Jesus said

    3:5 Jesus answered, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.( John 3:5)

    and

    Jesus said

    16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.(Mark 16:16)

    From these two verces that our Lord Jesus Christ spoke it obvious that baptism is linked with entering the kingdom of heaven and being saved even to the point that He said if you do not believe and are not baptized you will not enter the kingdom of heaven. This is what The Lord Jesus Christ taught his disciples and this teaching has been passed down from one generation to the next up until today, but these are only two verces what does the rest of the bible say about baptism let us see

    pentacost

    2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ.
    2:37 Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
    2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

    And

    pauls conversion

    22:14 Then he said, `The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth.
    22:15 `For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard.
    22:16 `And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'

    These verces show that on the day of pentocost after hearing peter preach many where cut to the heart(they believed in Jesus Christ) and asked the apostles what they should do to be saved from the wrath of God and peter replied that they should repent and be baptized in Jesus’ name for the remission of sins and that the apostle paul also had to be baptized to wash away his sins it is obviously not enough to have faith alone for if faith only was sufficient peter would not have instrucked all to be baptized nor would paul have had to be baptized for if faith only was enough then the holy apostles would not have added baptism as a must for salvation and neither would have our Lord Jesus Blessed be His Name. Now the epistle that were written by the apostles also testify that baptism is nessasary for salvation e.g.

    paul on baptism

    6:4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
    6:5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection,(Romans 6:4-5)

    and

    peter on baptism

    3:20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
    3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,(1 Peter 3:21)

    these verces state that baptism is death and burial with Christ and raising again to newness of life and in Peters epistle it is stated clearly that baptism is what now saves us .I will end with some quotes from the leaders of the church in the first and second century including some that where taught directly by the apostles and probably seen the Lord Jesus Christ during his three and a half year ministery.

    DO I BELIEVE ALL THE BIBLE OR JUST PARTS

    This article as you probably have gathered from the title is about asking your self this question; Do I believe all the bible or just parts. To this question I’d think most believers would affirm that they believe in all the bible and not just parts of it accepting what is pleasing to them and easy to follow and rejecting what is not even if it is, out of ignorance not knowing any better. So let us examin just one subject that of baptism.


    1.Salvation is through baptism and Faith, not Faith alone. "He who believes and is baptized will be saved" (Mark 16:16)

    2.Through baptism we receive the second birth which is of water and the spirit. "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the spirit, he can not enter the kingdom of God" (John 3:5)

    3.Baptism washes away sins. "And now why are you waiting?Arise and be baptised, and wash away your sins" (Acts 22:16)

    4.In baptism there is forgiveness of sins. "Men and breathren, what shall we do?" Then Peter said to them "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins" (Acts 2:37,38)

    5.Baptism is dying with the Lord Jesus Christ and rising with Him. "Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?" (Romans 6:3,4)
    "Now if we died with Christ, we believe we shall also live with Him" (Romans 6: 8)

    6.Another result of baptism is newness of life.
    "therefore we were buried with Him through baptism in to death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life" (Rom 6:4)

    7.In baptism we put on Christ. "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (Galatians 3;27)

    8.Baptism is becoming a member of the church and the church is the body of Christ.there is no salvation apart from the body of Christ. "I now rejoice in my suffering for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the affliction of Christ, for the sake of his body, which is the church. (colossians 1:24)

    This simple table shows just some of the teachings in the Holy Bible about baptism and from it we see that baptism is nessaccery for salvation if we study the book of Acts in the new testament we will see that on every occasion that salvation occurred the apostles baptized those that believed, which leads me to ask you to ask your self DO I BELIEVE IN ALL THE BIBLE OR JUST PARTS OF IT

    Augustine Bishop of Hippo: If the forgiveness of sins were not to be had in the church, there would be no hope of a future life and eternal liberation. We thank God, who gave his church such a gift. Here you are; you are going to come to the holy font, you will be washed in saving baptism, you will be renewed in ・the bath of rebirth.・ You will be without any sin at all as you come up from that bath. All the things that were plaguing you in the past will be blotted out.


    God Bless
    d2m
     

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