Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by I_Survived_The_Eighties, Mar 7, 2013.
Naaa....It's way too crowded as it is...They'll never let you in.
The terms "Hebrew" "Jew" "Yehudi" are synonyms and the eras-long errors of equating race to religion and religion to race should have ended long ago. Let's look at how Christ looked at it:
He went out of His way to preach to Gentiles:
That was His longest journey (always on foot) of His entire ministry.
When she spoke the famous dogs/crumbs reply, did Jesus quiz her about here race? Tell her to become a Jew? No...He said
There are more examples.....God is no respecter of persons or races.
Actually the word "catholic" means universal or world wide, or all-embracing.
However the term "Catholic" capitalized refers to the Roman Catholic Faith specifically.
Likewise the term "orthodox" means adhering to the accepted or traditional and established faith.
Whereas "Orthodox" capitalized refers to all the Eastern Rite or Orthodox churches.
(But I reckon ya knew this, right?)
You always spoil my fun Rusty...
Oh drat....were you setting up to spike the ball? Sorry...
Here is, to me, and interesting point I discovered while studying years ago that shows that even in the Exodus, race and tribe was NOT a requirement of God's for salvation or worship.
This is God Himself speaking to Moses:
The actual Hebrew word for "stranger" is properly "guest". There are many references by God to these Gentiles in the Pentateuch...Here's another blockbuster that wipes out any racial suggestion of Jewishness in God's eyes:
It was much later that the "wall of racial partition". It was not God's "plan".
Now any suggestions as to where these Exodus "guests" came from in the middle of the 40 years of Israel wandering in the deserts?
(There's a set up for you, Mr. Dirty!)
Here's what I am discovering in all this:
All we are doing is throwing titles of status around-no matter how you slice it. So here is my proposal; there are only 2 types of people: believers & unbelievers.
So OT believers were "Jews" and the NT believers are "Christians". (in my opinion)
If someone can prove that bloodline strictly determines whether or not one can receive salvation-or- will believe in the Lord: please submit your DNA evidence.....
(Oh I think somewhere there is a scientist doing that already....)
Jews reject Jesus-Jesus rejects Jews...
John 8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. 41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. 43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me? 47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
John 10:22 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. 23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch. 24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly. 25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30 I and my Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
Matthew 7:24, Matthew 10:32, Matthew 16:25, Matthew 21:41, Matthew 23:12, Mark 3:35, Mark 8:34, Luke 6:47, Luke 7:23, Luke 9:24, Luke 9:26, Luke 12:8, Luke 14:11, Luke 14:27, Luke 17:33, Luke 20:18, John 3:15, John 3:16, John 4:14, John 11:26
Your BLOOD father makes no difference...your SPIRITUAL Father does....
That is what I've been yapping about all along.
Wanna stab at this question?
.11For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BEDISAPPOINTED.”12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;13for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”
Are we talking 'aliens'?
Oh come on-can't I have a little KJV word fun?
Ephesians 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Lamentation 5:1 Remember, O Lord, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2 Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens.
Deuteronomy 14:21 Ye shall not eat of any thing that dieth of itself: thou shalt give it unto the stranger that is in thy gates, that he may eat it; or thou mayest sell it unto an alien: for thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God.
Well...I was pointing out the Exodus times, the establishment of the Jewish religion; you quotes (except the Deut. one) are not in that time-frame or event.
The Leviticus verse I posted has the same Hebrew word as your Deut verse :"guest" [גּיר גּר
So I ask you....WHERE did the children of Israel pickup these "guests" that traveled with them in the desert, which God told them to treat them as "one born to you" and gave instructions to them concerning worship?
Well..I am guessing..pure speculation mind you...
Some of those 'lost sons of Noah' whom are presumably responsible for the surrounding populous in the 'promised land', Egypt (Afrika), Middle East/ Asia, moving onward towards Greece, Italy (Mediterranean), the rest of Europe and Asia, even the America's before the 'land was divided'.
But those Aussies and Kiwis I am pretty sure are just plain straight "aliens"! (Penguins too!)
My guess is this: with all the international 'flood stories'; the peoples of the Earth descending from Noah were very well aware of the Creator. So they had no excuse to deny Him and forget Him over time. So as with the 'Jews' after Christ, as with the peoples in pre- Israel, as with the Ramses Egyptians, as with the fallen away Israelites: The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away.
"Trust and obey-for there's no other way..." else you may lose your inheritance in your pride and pomp living. The slaves become the masters...boy could the USA really learn from Biblical History!
'And the meek shall inherit the Earth'
I was told once i belong to Messianic Judaism same beliefs, jews who believe in Jesus the Son ,Trinity, but i am not jewish or am i...
Well I think as I have previously stated-we are dealing with a 'status & title' issue. I think it was on another post I commented on the titles I would prefer:
'Prince of Heaven'
'Ambassador to Christ'
'Child of God'
But if "Christian" identifies me as a true believer in what Jesus Christ did on the cross for me-I'll take it...
Acts 11:26, Acts 26:28, 1 Peter 4:16
It's about HIM-not our man-made religion... So I guess I find it fitting that 'Christ' is the best part of "Christian"!
OK, Dirty...I'll cut to the chase: The pack that was wandering in the wilderness were not all Hebrew slaves:
So this is the source of the "guests" mentioned by God in my earlier verses.
Right; I agree with that statement in a literal sense-but are we not also speaking of future acceptance of outsiders after the Law was given? No argument from me....
Of course! Judaism has from the start NOT been about race.....racism developed afterward.
Um, this an old thread but just picking up on it as searching for something.
I thought jewish ppl were those who were circumcised.
But then...it seems other ppl are circumcised too who arent Jews.
I might say only those who are orthodox are Jews because they actually make an effort to live by all the comandments in the OT.
However, since there no more sacrifices at the temple, is that so? They cant even worship at the temple. Cos there is none.
Also theres jewish ppl living outside the holy land. How do we know they jews? Is it a self proclaimed identity? They dont seem more holy or chosen than anyone else. Is it just lineage that makes them jews? Is it bloodlines? Is it they speak Hebrew?
Or is it cos they keep kosher and the sabbath and go to synagogues? If so thats a cultural religious thing that even converts can do, and not anything to do with blood at all. They may keep all the feasts but theres nothing that would stop us christians from celebrating them.
So I dont understand the criteria for jews returning to the holy land which is now israel\palestine.
Then theres jewish people who also love Jesus, so..it kinda gets confusing.