Auschwitz: God On Trial

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by I_Survived_The_Eighties, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. Ive read the book The Holocaust:The jewish tragedy 3x by Martin Gilbert. A grusome account on the events that happen to the jews during world war 2 and the nazi rein of the extermination of the jews by utter cruelty showing no mercy to its victims. i use tosay where was god in all this? the jews are Gods chosen people yet he is letting them be destroyed by nazis? Sent to the gas ovens. one gruesome part i read from this book at a prison - Block 5 ( jump to page 642 if you plan on buying this book) is about how the SS had decided that all 7 jews at this prison were told they must all die by christmas day. They must voluntare, if they dont then the prison guard who enjoyed killing jews would chose one per day and with his pickaxe smashing the victims skull in till dead the last 2 died on Christmas night a father and son who committed suicide instead of letting this nazi thug beat them to death so they both touched the electric fence dying together. Meanwhile that night a Christmas carol was playing. This was told by a P.O.W British pilot who witnesses what happen and only survived cause he wasn't jewish.

    And where two SS guards enjoyed stomping on Jewish pregnant mothers till the unborn baby popped out, laughing while the woman died in agony. Or the hanging of Jewish children with piano wire while the mothers had to watch, usually takes 20min for them to die by strangulation again while the SS taunted the mothers "Where is your god now".
    The grand father whos job was to throw the already dead gassed jews into the ovens two at a time. one day he came across two jewish children. His grand children. He struggled to do what he had to do holding back his tears. So nartually i would say while reading this book & very upset and confused "Where was God in all this?!? He failed to save his Chosen people! He saved them from the Egyptians why not with the Nazis! Why did they had to suffer? ( yeah a bit of a fool huh but anyone would after reading this book it will chill you to the bone to be honest)

    I dare any one who might have doubts if the holocaust was real or a hoax to read this book, Read it anyway if you believe the gassing of the jews did happen. You will be chillled to the bone. I still am when i re read it.

    History must not repeat itself. Next time it might not be the Jews that will be gassed it could be you or me or someone you love by a people who hate us. I have read too,Some say the Jews got what was coming to them they crucified Jesus, but thats a pretty poor cowardly reason. Maybe they did have it coming who knows? Maybe the world power America and its allies with plenty of pride have it coming too. We just dont know whats round the corner. Jesus said to the father while dying on the cross. "Father forgive them for they do not know what they're doing". We christians should take heed at the warnings: "And you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved". ( eg we are seen as infidels by some in the name of Muhammad christians need to be taken out.)

    Jesus also said Watch.

    Anyway today i came across this where now when i think about it i could of just asked here and probably would of got a good enough aswer.:)

    These same struggles have been a prominent thread in theology throughout its history. The ‘problem of evil’ is called theodicy. How do we reconcile the existence of suffering and of evil (whether or not they are synonymous) with the existence of God? How can there be wars, terrorism or plagues such as AIDS and an all-loving, all-powerful God? If God allows free will, or created a universe in which Satan exists, does not that suffering in some way emanate from God? From that beacon of respectability.

    While I haven’t read Elie Wiesel’s The Trial of God, I have read his Night. I found Night to be one of the most ghastly things I’ve ever read, due to its simple descriptions and basis in the reality of the Holocaust. In Night, Elie Wiesel describes the hanging of a child in Auschwitz. In A History of God, Karen Armstrong describes the episode thus:
    It took the child half an hour to die, while the prisoners were forced to look him in the face. The same man asked again: “Where is God now?” And Wiesel heard a voice within him make this answer: “Where is He? Here He is—He is hanging here on this gallows.”

    Dostoevsky had said that the death of a single child could make God unacceptable, but even he, no stranger to inhumanity, had not imagine the death of a child in such circumstances.
  2. I have also read extensively on the Holocaust...My father-in-law was a German prisoner. I have visited the original concentration camp, Mauthausen, in Austria. My ability to read German opened up this visit into another level. I never use tours or guides.

    Yes...I would like to hear an answer from Christian Zionists why they think God allowed the slaughter of millions. Where is the prophecy of this? How can Christians justify God in this?
  3. We all have free will, and we all abuse it. What do you expect God to do? Shall He kill every one who would commit a sin before that person does it? We'd all be dead by dawn.

    What the Nazis did was horrendous, but it was not the first time, nor will it be the last.
    KingJ and Rusty say Amen and like this.
  4. I am not a 'Christian Zionist' (at least I don't think I am); anyhow, we just finished reading Deuteronomy. There are some pretty powerful statements made by the Moses & the Lord about the blessings and curses of the children of Israel.

    I tell you after rereading this as a parent to my daughter last night-lets just say I felt extremely impacted by God's Word last night-humbled if you will. Especially thinking of my own country and the 'Christians' in it.

    Deuteronomy 28-34.

    Now before you get on to me Rusty-I am not saying this is 'prophecy' about the Holocaust. Just sharing my experience last night and the coincidence of this thread....
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  5. I think the impact of WWII is solidified in history because it was the same time period that technology allowed the mass archiving of information from this war and the atrocities have been visualized for generations to come.

    Whereas- if he had video, picture and audio recordings from the wars in the Bible-maybe WWII would not be pinnacle of horrendous war atrocities? Either way...I am looking forward to no more war....ever....

  6. Glad to hear that Dirty: I didn't even begin to think you were suggesting this was a prophecy selection in Deut.

    However, you will note that all of God's promises were conditional:

    The ancient Jews failed in there obedience. They murdered they prophets and even the Lord Himself. Therefore the promises were rendered meaningless. And no amount or pretense can change what happened to them after their rejection of their least I can't pretend.
    Juk likes this.
  7. Right! History records many organized campaigns in Europe against Jews by all denominations. This one in WWII was just extra recent and extra horrific.
  8. I guess I look at it like this: after Christ ascended back to Heaven, and the religious tradition was broken for the cause of Christ, the Jews no longer had the 'monopoly' -if you will- to access to God. The Lord opened the wedding feast up to those in the hedges-gentiles and what not.

    Knowing what I know of God and His long suffering; is it possible his long suffering tapered off from the 'chosen' people once Christ resurrected? Therefore enacting the cursing of Moses....?
  9. many way this is right....Thing is: most Gentiles never ask WHY God chose the descendents of Abraham (NOT a Jew himself) to be chosen. Chosen for what? Rituals? Tradition?
  10. Obedience? Are we not all of Adam>>>>Noah>>>>Jesus? Were their Jews before Abraham?
  11. Well yes, but that's true for anyone who follows the Lord.

    My opinion is that God chose the least to be His vehicle for the birth of Christ. Repeatedly He says that they were the outcasts that He chose. It was not because of their virtue, purity or race.

    Ancient Israel was chosen by God because in those days it was the trading crossroads of the world....perfectly situated for His purposes....not merely for nation building, but to be MISSIONARIES to the planet of God's grace and the Promise of Christ.

    This they utterly failed to do. They built walls against the "unclean foreigner" and perfected racial and religious hatred among the very people God wanted them to reach.
    Dirtyrottensinner likes this.
  12. I agree:

    Deuteronomy 9:1-7
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  13. In modern secular Israel today what constitutes a Jew is highly contested. The following people are Jewish:
    [​IMG]From the Arabic nation of Yemen.

    [​IMG]Chinese Jews of Kaifeng

    African Jews

    And the most familiar to Westerners, the European or Ashkenazim Jew

  14. So to answer your question: Abram was a Chaldean...from Ur...we would call him an Iraqi today.

    Bottom line....Being Jewish is a religion, not a race.
  15. I guess what I was getting at was the roots of 'Judaism' started with Moses-as a religion.

    Worshiping the only true God-started at creation! :D
  16. This is the common understanding, but I see the Exodus experience as a codifying a re-establishment of the original faith in God lost to them by so many years of slavery and idolatry. God and Moses were institutionalizing what was formerly a family community lifestyle.

    The Jews lost their way man many times.

    As you say: The Way was known since Cain slew Abel...remember the altar? With the symbol of the lamb?
  17. I Think we ALL need to get back to worshiping God as He wants-Like Christ said:

    John4:21...Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
    Rusty likes this.
  18. thats what hell is for i suppose.
  19. @ Rusty you missed out the Jahmacian Rastafarians who believe Jesus was not the Son but a prophet and God is a living man on this earth and hes black - Emperor Halli Salassie Jah Rasta Fari a man who happen to like the rastas very much cause they believe he is a God. One follower famous muscian Bob Marley has fool many people with his music into taking on the Rasta movement and believing rasta beliefs.

    Rastas at church service. Why are they saluting...
  20. I don't consider them Jews...but their own cult.

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