Am I Wrong??

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by ~forgiven_not_forsaken~, Jul 25, 2013.

  1. We all want to change the world for the better, right? to make marriages stronger, affair proof, and Godly, to stop wars, to feel the hungry, to make everyone financially secure, to end abuse of every type, to end all crimes, the list goes on and on. we want a better world right? we want everyone to know God's love and his word and be saved.

    here is where I want to know if I am wrong... I have not read the whole bible yet, I can't spout out verses for every situation. but I can tell you that Jesus took all the sin of the world when he died on the cross and salvation is ours thru him. he loved us that much....pretty amazing, isn't it!!!! and God said he knows us before he knit us in our mothers womb. Am I wrong for wanting love everyone and spread God's word with love and kindness and mercy and forgiveness???????

    here's the topic....homosexuality....

    it is when someone engages in intimacy and relationships or lusting after the same sex (of course we all know that)

    i know that God says to hate (does all bibles use that word or is it different in versions) all evil. i know that God detests when men lay with men (that includes women lay with women). but am i wrong that i am not afraid nor do i hate homosexuals.

    i can't hate because i have sinned in my life (not in that way tho) and God didn't and doesn't hate me.
    why do some "Christians" think they can change these people with hate, condemnation, and judgement?
    i cannot and will not tell someone they are going to hell if they do not change, there is a more loving way to spread God's word than to be hateful toward someone who lives differently. my job is to spread God's word and love, not to hate people and try to change them. im not saying i am or that we should be tolerable to homosexuality. just saying i don't think all the hate is changing the world.

    i do not allow my children to watch tv shows with homosexuality, cussing, sexual intimacy, violence, or cheating spouses... but i know they will encounter these things in the world. i will not focus my bible teaching to my children on being hateful or afraid of a group of people because they have a different lifestyle.
    we do not have to associate with those people if we choose not to....just like we do not have to associate to those who are "satanist". we are called to pray for them, just like we pray for family, friends, and those not saved, and non-believers.

    here's a little scenario: you meet someone and they are nice, funny, smart, etc... good friend material, you find out they are gay.... should you just hate them and tell them they will burn in hell and that God hates them and so forth? i don't think we should be that way (I say we as a general term). i think we should talk to them in a loving manner, pray for them and let them know if they want to know more about God and his word and love that we are their for them. you never know who's life you can change by showing love and kindness.

    scenario #2: we protest every gay person we meet or come across, bashing them with hate, telling them God hates them and they will burn in hell, that they are an abomination, not knowing that they probably get a lot of this from family, friends may have abandoned them, they probably already have all that going thru their mind and they are struggling.... that person may be so hurt and tired of it that they do something drastic and end their life....eternity in hell without the chance of change.

    we can be that spark that ignites anyones love for Jesus!!!!

    so am i wrong by wanting to change the world by using kindness, love, forgiveness, mercy, hope, positivity???

    not looking for anyone to be mean or rude, so please if you nice!!!! love is louder!!!!
  2. We often confuse "ministering" with "fellowship", and in some cases both are intermingled.

    We are to do all things "in His love", not in our ways; We minister in many ways, mainly this is by being the 'example' Christian which means you should carry yourself like you are always being 'watched'-YOU ARE! By believers, unbelievers, and God.

    The Bible teaches that once someone openly rejects the Gospel, your Job as a Christian is D-O-N-E! But that does not mean you change your attitude, you move along to the next person in need; and if they reject, you move on again. You will do a lot of moving on in your life BUT you maintain yourself as a Christian because that lost person is still watching-and they might just repent if they see a genuine Christian!

    'Fellowship' on the other hand is when we work on creating mature intimate relationships-#1 With Christ, #2 with Parents or Spouse, #3 with Children, #4 With Brothers & Sisters in Christ-including your Pastor. We are not called to 'fellowship' in this sense with unbelievers; including blood relations. This is very hard for most people to accept.

    Now say you meet a 'lost' person and/ or 'lost couple' no matter their sexual orientation. You should 'minister' to them-welcome them, be a loving example of Christ. Say you invite them to dinner:

    Scenario A: You share the Gospel and the fact you are a Bible believing Christian, they ACCEPT ! Hallelujah!!! Now it is time to begin a teaching fellowship of the Word.

    Scenario B: You share the Gospel and the fact you are a Bible believing Christian, they decline-but not openly reject. You have to be very cautious about crossing the ministry- fellowship line (And it is a very thin line). Let them come back to you for question or just be civil when you see them outside your home-be the example-pray for their salvation.

    Scenario C: You share the Gospel and the fact you are a Bible believing Christian, they REJECT the Gospel. Technically your job is done. Be heartbroken and pray for repentance and salvation of their souls.But by no means 'fellowship'. Minister to them by being a Christian example. The best thing you can do is pray.

    In an ideal world-we would always act like and present ourselves as loving Christians-we don't live in an ideal world.

    If you have a loving spirit- by all means, let it all hang out Sister! With the guidance and wisdom (Sword of the Lord) by your side.
    christianvolume and KingJ say Amen and like this.
  3. Thank you!!!! this is how i live, or atleast try to for the most part. i encountered some Christians on facebook and they were all about hate, and condemning people, especially those who really need Gods word and to know of his love. these types of Christians are the reasons most people either don't want to admit they are Christians or why people just don't like Christians. i am not on of those "Christians". i want to spread God's word the best way i can. and if the person rejects it then i will let them know there is always open communication if they have questions. i will not shun them. i just don't understand why people have to be so hateful :(
  4. It's in our sinful nature to reject the way of love-Thankfully we have God that paid for our iniquity. Love is a choice-not a warm fuzzy feeling...

    christianvolume likes this.
  5. I commend you for your loving, Christ like spirit that wants to reach out to the lost, I find that to be a rare commodity these days.

    As for you question, we are not called to change the world, the world will continue in it's downward decline until the Lord comes back to rule and reign for 1000 years, ...only when Jesus is ruling will the world's problems be solved, however, that doesn't mean we are to close our eyes to the suffering around us or to the suffering the Lord might lead us to help out with, so do what you can and don't become overwhelmed with enormity of the situation.

    For the subject of homosexuality, we MUST realize it is NOT a physical condition or crossed wire in them genetically, without this knowledge firmly established in our hearts we won't be effective, Paul clearly states they knew God (they knew there is a God), but instead in their vain imaginations they glorified the creation instead of the Creator, they did not want to retain the knowledge of God in their minds, so God said alright if you don't want to believe in Me I'll let you sink into the depravity of you sin and the last rung on that ladder is homosexuality. Rom 1:20-31

    Now that doesn't mean there isn't any hope or salvation for a homosexual because Paul tells us there were former homosexuals in the Corinthian church 1 Cor 6:9-11, but ministering to a homosexual is different than to someone else because they have been given over to a reprobate mind Rom 1:28 and that obstacle needs to be removed first through prayer. They must be shown that God isn't being mean because He sees homosexuality as an abomination, but instead it's a loving Heavenly Father that is saying homosexuality is bad for you, it will kill you,'s the results of their own prideful choice to leave God that has caused their problems, ...homosexuals will reap the results of their choice Rom 1:27 and that is the HIV virus (actually it was first called G.R.I.D.S. Gay Related Immune Deficiency Syndrome, but because of political pressure the name was changed) so prevalent in the homosexual community, so with that I suggest, beloved, that you make sure it's a calling from God with His guidance and not just your feminine emotions interspersed with the love of Christ that is in you before you get too involved.


    christianvolume and KingJ say Amen and like this.
  6. Amen!
    Amen (amen may be getting cheesy, but that line deserved it ;)).
    We must hate evil. But how can we hate a person when as you said Jesus died for them. Everyone living has hope. Even if it be those stuck in extremities of sin / rebellion.
    You need to evaluate Christian opposition to it properly. Rallying and such is not hating individuals, rather holding back the tides of darkness making the future unbearable for our kids. We are to judge / discern not condem.
    Loving someone is telling them the truth. We must not dim the light we bring. In my experience when people say 'love them don't judge them' they actually mean, switch your light off, come join us in the bar. Scripture is clear that we will be hated! When evil people love us there is something wrong with us!
    That is good, but we are called to do more then just pray for them.
    Friend material = someone who loves Jesus. Enemy = Someone who hates Jesus / righteousness. We need to differentiate between our witnessing and social circles. Doesn't matter how friendly they are. Inside they hate everything about you and seek to get your approval of their lifestyle / corrupt you.
    What exactly do you mean when you say 'bashing with hate'?
    That would be a lie, have you ever heard a Christian say that God hates someone? or that 'they' are an abomination? Hate sin, not sinner = Christianity 101.
    We all have the spirit of Christ and those are His characteristics. As long as we don't blur / sugar coat / hide / dim / run from / avoid the truth. Personally I prefer telling them (if they don't already know) on day one that they are going to hell. As it may just be their last day. ''You going to hell if you carry on as you are, repent and turn from your wicked ways'...No, then can I pray for you?...Yes....great, let me tell you about Jesus = 100% Love. I do this with the people I work with.

    You must understand that homosexuality is an extremity of sin / rebellion of the flesh. You cannot group movies with cussing / nudity in the same bracket. Movies are having it in them as the norm these days. Jesus is busy packing to come fetch us ;).
    christianvolume likes this.
  7. I think many of us often forget (and I'm no exception) that while we are not to judge others, we are to judge actions as being right or wrong.

    The case for homosexuality is a very tough one because some see it as being subjective wrong, while others (like me) see it as objective wrong--and then many others see it as good or just nothing at all. But even beyond that, there's debate as to whether it's a choice or neurological the way none of us decided at a certain age that we'd be straight. I'm inclined to side with the latter.

    Though while I don't believe one can choose to be gay or straight, one can always choose how they will approach these neurological differences. Human beings have an instinct to sin, but its especially our strength in God that allows us to go in the right direction. I'm very sympathetic to homosexuals because unless straight people, just proceeding in a romantic relationship can really cause problems for their own souls. So of course it isn't to say that we should just say "well, it's tough for them, so let's just say homosexuality is OK," but rather those of us who really believe in the truth should be seen as a beacon for them, that regardless of their desires, and regardless of what the world even says, they are still God's creation and deserve his grace.

    Of course, while his grace is a gift to all, one can't receive his grace if he insists on rejecting it.
  8. you are so right. I choose to love!!!!
    Brother_Mike_V likes this.
  9. Thank you Gene. I know I cant change the world, but if I can change the way someone see's it or be a light for them, then I know I have made a difference. some people see all the bad in the world, and I refuse to bother with it. all I want to see is the Good. and if I can let someone knows how much Jesus loves them and that he died for them and their sins and that they have a chance at eternal live in Him, then I have been part of the Good in the world.
  10. I like it and agree-but there is an old saying: 'don't be so heavenly minded that you are of no earthly good'. Be wise and ready to have an answer...

    There is another saying too: "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Matthew 10:16
  11. Yes, I have heard Christian people say that God hates homosexuals and that they are an abomination, that is where this topic stemmed from. and I believe its the sin that is hated, not the sinner because if the sinner was hated, then we would all be hated because we all sin in some way. most people who I have encountered were usually bisexual, already knew how God fells about this, even the atheist girl I met who is bi knew as she said "if there is a God I will go to hell for my choices" but I have always told them that God loves them and they are precious and it breaks his heart to see them living this way and that there is a chance of eternal life if they repent and stop living that way. I told them I will love them no matter what and always be available to talk to them more about this and that I will pray for them everyday. now its their choice. I have never met a full blown homosexual.... but I know that there are some in my town. I don't know their names but God does and I pray for them.

    one other thing that I know most true Christians know that a lot of men hate hearing..... when God said that man shall not lay with man, he meant that for women lesbians are not a gift for mens viewing pleasure as I have had a few "Christian" men tell me (including my ex-husband) its a terrible thing to think that God would ok this sin for lustful purposes. sorry I got off topic just had to throw that in since that came to mind.

    oh I only grouped that all together because I got into an argument with a man who is trying to help spread a petition to get a show canceled because one episode will feature a child with same sex parents, and was saying how God hates gay people and anyone who watches this show is living in sin (its a childrens show), and that their children will turn gay. this stuff is on tv like every other sin, no one has to watch it, turn off the tv, turn the can keep your children from hearing and seeing things on tv but you can keep them from hearing and seeing it in the world. I choose to just turn the channel, but I also choose to talk to my children, because they will encounter sins of all sorts when they grow up and enter the world...and even before them. I would rather they know how to respond, and to respond with love instead of fear and hate.
  12. Well I agree that we should take a stand for Christ and that this stuff shouldn't be on TV-but it is. So as Christians we have to examine our actions and ask if they are getting us closer to being 'HOLY".

    What I mean is this: lots of people pay for TV- whether it be cable or satellite, internet, etc..-with money given to them by the Lord. If we purchase things that support wickedness-does that make us good stewards? I struggle with this because I am on my last venue of media access-internet, and it is just as dangerous if not more than TV. And I am seriously considering tanking that.

    So we are caught in the complexity of 'being in the world, but not OF the world'. We are influenced greatly by the world, so we have to be MORE influenced by the LORD. At the same time-we can't expect unbelievers to comply with God's Word-and we should rebuke Brothers & Sisters that fall into the trappings of the world.
  13. oh trust me I know how to respond and I always have an answer of some sort, I haven't always been a Christian. I was saved when I was 21 and im almost 31.... I didn't have God's love shared with me. I had religion forced down my throat in a very harsh way. all I could think was that God hated me because I wasn't saved and because I had sinned in my life, even tho the person i sinned with was the person (and his family) that was doing this to me, but since he was saved he didn't worry about what he did. it took the churches pastor talking to me for me to realized that God didn't hate me for what i did, and that i would be forgiven if i came to Him. at first i really wasn't sure i wanted to be a Christian because of the way my (then boyfriend, now ex-husband) was as a Christian.

    i just think that some Christian should change their approach. i responded a lot better to being told of Christ's Love and how much he wanted me in his Kingdom and the plan of salvation and repent of my sins and ask forgiveness for my sins, than what i did to being made to feel worthless and feel like God didn't love me because i sinned and to be shunned as a person til i changed.... i didn't want to worship someone who i was made to feel didn't love me.

    i was blessed by that pastor who took me aside to talk to me about God's Love because i was in some serious doubt. i always believed in God and Jesus but i didn't know much other than that. i just want to be a blessing to others the way the pastor was to me, after that it's their choice.
    Brother_Mike_V likes this.
  14. I agree with the OP, except rather than trying the make the world a better place, we're seeking to get as many people rescued as possible. I view the world as kinda like the Titanic. The ship's fate was sealed on its maiden voyage when it hit the iceberg: when Adam ate the forbidden fruit. At first the ship was fairly level. Now it's up-end, and sinking fast.

    But other than that, yes. we are to warn everyone in love, pointing them to the Lifeboat (Jesus) with humility, gentleness, and urgency. I am not qualified to judge, but soon it will be time for the One who is.
    autumn oddity likes this.
  15. I know that whatever side of the coin you are on, it's not going to matter one bit. Ultimately it'll be God who determine who comes, and goes. But I can tell you this, there are plenty of "Christians" that are upset about homosexuality, when truthfully, they need to look inward, not outward and be sure of themselves.

    I believe that debating this (in church, not on message forums) wastes time that could be spent saving the masses from eternal damnation.

  16. I think you nailed it here, except the one statement you made that debating certain acts is a time-waster. I'm not sure it's productive to sweep things under the rug that might need to be addressed if it means their souls.
  17. No you're right. Sometimes things that are typed come out wrong. Not sure how to get that last part across so it's better understood what I actually meant lol.

  18. No worries. If what you mean is pointing out others' sins for no other purpose than to point them out, then you're completely right--what good is that?
  19. Exactly! Thank you for clearing that up. I mean we all know people who are homosexual. And I think it's important for them to know about Christ, and it's my job to tell them. But I leave it there. I do know what the bible says, but I do not know if being homosexual is enough to keep someone out of Heaven and it's not up to me to decide.
  20. I suspect merely BEING gay (apart from pursuing one's gay tendencies if that makes sense) wouldn't keep people out of Heaven if they are sincere in their faith and religion. I believe people don't choose to have a gay mind, I think they only choose if they will live their lives pursuing gay tendencies. This isn't to say that despite their homosexuality, they should instead live hetero lives.

    I think we should always remember to pray for our homosexual friends who struggle with this, that they are comforted by God, and that they can fight the pressures they get from vastly pro-gay culture. Many of us made a commitment to stay celibate until marriage--but if homosexuals intend to live for God, that means they are in a position to stay celibate completely--that's why they need so much prayer and support I think.
    insanemustang likes this.

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