“Once for All”

[netchaplain]

The crux of Hebrews 10:10 is the doctrine of eternal security! Hence there is only one type of salvation—eternal salvation (Heb 5:9). Does it seem sensible to consider the oxymoron of receiving eternal salvation, then loosing it? If it’s something that one can lose, it’s not eternal. Eternal has only one meaning—forever.

Can one even accurately assume that God would be required to remove eternal life from those to whom He gave it? If God gives eternal life it has to be forever, otherwise it would be to consider that God is ‘fickle.’ No, when eternal life is granted, it has to be permanent, or it wasn’t eternal life. Let’s keep it sensible.

All spiritual growth doctrines derive for the doctrine of eternal-security. It’s not as though one can go in and out of Christ, which again, would be fickle. The only answer is that there are those who think they are in Christ but in reality, they aren’t. This is the hypocrisy and apostasy with which so much of Scripture is taken up.

Of course there will be hypocrites and apostates, for the sake of contrasting what is true and what is false. These are exemplary of the classes of people who demonstrate truth or hypocrisy, in order to identify those who genuinely are seeking truth to please God, or those who eventually realize themselves that they are not truly seeking to please God. One thing is for certain, God will not let anyone continue in ignorance of where one stands concerning truth; for their “sin will find them out” (Num 32:23), and they will move on from the charade. Thankfully what one believes concerning the loss of eternal life has no effect upon one’s salvation, but on one’s growth from salvation.
NC

 

[bobinfaith]

The crux of Hebrews 10:10 is the doctrine of eternal security! Hence there is only one type of salvation—eternal salvation (Heb 5:9). Does it seem sensible to consider the oxymoron of receiving eternal salvation, then loosing it? If it’s something that one can lose, it’s not eternal. Eternal has only one meaning—forever. Can one even accurately assume that God would be required to remove eternal life from those to whom He gave it? If God gives eternal life it has to be forever, otherwise it would be to consider that God is ‘fickle.’ No, when eternal life is granted, it has to be permanent, or it wasn’t eternal life. Let’s keep it sensible. All spiritual growth doctrines derive for the doctrine of eternal-security. It’s not as though one can go in and out of Christ, which again, would be fickle. The only answer is that there are those who think they are in Christ but in reality, they aren’t. This is the hypocrisy and apostasy with which so much of Scripture is taken up. Of course there will be hypocrites and apostates, for the sake of contrasting what is true and what is false. These are exemplary of the classes of people who demonstrate truth or hypocrisy, in order to identify those who genuinely are seeking truth to please God, or those who eventually realize themselves that they are not truly seeking to please God. One thing is for certain, God will not let anyone continue in ignorance of where one stands concerning truth; for their “sin will find them out” (Num 32:23), and they will move on from the charade. Thankfully what one believes concerning the loss of eternal life has no effect upon one’s salvation, but on one’s growth from salvation.
NC

Hello netchaplain;

Excellent thread going into the Holiday Season. I'm actually delivering the message along these lines on the first Sunday in December.

There are times saved Christians can very easily disconnect from God by overwhelming circumstances alone. Satan pollutes the world by enticing and deceiving us to make quick, rash decisions that bring us instant gratification, many times sin, instead of God’s results. Sin breeds sin and connects to other sins and before we know it, we ask ourselves, what did I just do?

We lose a sense of God's promises of forgiveness, even our salvation of forever and ever.

God bless you, Bob and your family. Happy Thanksgiving.

 

[netchaplain]

There are times saved Christians can very easily disconnect from God by overwhelming circumstances alone. Satan pollutes the world by enticing and deceiving us to make quick, rash decisions that bring us instant gratification, many times sin, instead of God’s results. Sin breeds sin and connects to other sins and before we know it, we ask ourselves, what did I just do?

There can be difficulty as to what to so with those immature in Christ, if a bad habit is what is considered. But those who truly love God will continue to grow in Christ, and those who are not reborn will always return to their pleasures, because that's really all they have without God (2Ti 3:4).

We lose a sense of God's promises of forgiveness, even our salvation of forever and ever.

Yes, one could go through the motions of being saved, but if it's not genuine it will eventually show. God wouldn't have anyone continue in ignorance of truth if they are sincerely seeking it.

 

[Prim90]

Hello netchaplain;

Excellent thread going into the Holiday Season. I'm actually delivering the message along these lines on the first Sunday in December.

There are times saved Christians can very easily disconnect from God by overwhelming circumstances alone. Satan pollutes the world by enticing and deceiving us to make quick, rash decisions that bring us instant gratification, many times sin, instead of God’s results. Sin breeds sin and connects to other sins and before we know it, we ask ourselves, what did I just do?

We lose a sense of God's promises of forgiveness, even our salvation of forever and ever.

God bless you, Bob and your family. Happy Thanksgiving.

I would agree very much. Gods promises of redemption from the 1st sacrifice and shedding of blood in the garden to provide Adam & Eve a covering. All the the way up to Calvary with the promise of redemption finally fulfilled. Christ was like a Hen who broods and hovers over her chicks protecting them. So it was with Christ suffering the full affliction from the price of sin. Staying upon the cross he did love his church until the very end. And with Conquering Sin and Death he did redeem his own. Be they Past , Present or Future Saints.

 

[BibleLover]

I have observed that persons who believe if a Christian sins, that Christian becomes unsaved until that sin is confessed never seem to mature like those who are secure in Christ. It seems that the devil picks out such persons for special torment by keeping some habitual temptation at the forefront of their attention.

 

[netchaplain]

I have observed that persons who believe if a Christian sins, that Christian becomes unsaved until that sin is confessed never seem to mature like those who are secure in Christ. It seems that the devil picks out such persons for special torment by keeping some habitual temptation at the forefront of their attention.

Hi, and thanks for the reply! We know of course that Christians still sin, but the difference now is that the sins are impulsive than intentional. No Christian wants to sin, unless it's just one who claims to be saved but really isn't. I'm sure there are those who might think the way you mentioned, but they are either saved and just still growing, and will eventually mature; or they are not saved yet.

 

[2404]

Just one point. I think it is important to understand that Christians don't sin, they fall but get right back up. If one is in Christ you can't sin because the only 'real' sin is unbelief. Jesus said 'go and sin no more' saying keep walking in Me.
The unbeliever sins because that is what they are. They are not under the blood. They are not in the process of justification, sanctification and then the sealing. The only way is in Christ, as we all know.

 

[netchaplain]

I think it is important to understand that Christians don't sin

It's my understanding that Christians still sin, just never deliberately or intentional (Heb 10:26). The sense in "go sin no more" is with the understanding of not willfully sinning.

We would have to be rid of the sin nature to live without sinning. Since we still have the sin nature, we will continue to sin, just not on purpose.

 

[2404]

It's my understanding that Christians still sin, just never deliberately or intentional (Heb 10:26). The sense in "go sin no more" is with the understanding of not willfully sinning.

We would have to be rid of the sin nature to live without sinning. Since we still have the sin nature, we will continue to sin, just not on purpose.

The sinning willfully in He. 10:26 is of course 'rejecting the trueth' (unpardonable sin).

 

[bobinfaith]

Just one point. I think it is important to understand that Christians don't sin, they fall but get right back up. If one is in Christ you can't sin because the only 'real' sin is unbelief. Jesus said 'go and sin no more' saying keep walking in Me. The unbeliever sins because that is what they are. They are not under the blood. They are not in the process of justification, sanctification and then the sealing. The only way is in Christ, as we all know.

Hello 2404;

Please read within the verb of my questions and confession. I'm not baiting nor am I trying to trap you. My sole reason I'm asking is because of our friendship and being brothers in Christ, I just want to have an honest conversation with you and understand your point.

I have been told by Christians that we are saved and don't sin. So when we fall but get right back up, what does that mean?

Does it mean that if I have murderous thoughts of hatred, bitterness, anger and violence toward another man or organization reference Matthew 5:22, or when I battle with letting down the guard of my heart and tongue, or (with high respect to my wife) in the past whenever I saw an attractive woman my eyes would wander and wonder with lust.

Are these examples of falling? How do we get back up?

I'm not referring to unbelievers. If I, a Christian man don't sin and go before God one day, and this holds true then I'm reaping the benefit. But in the meantime, I have to reconcile my understanding between these two Scriptures, beside others, of cleansed by sin or sin;

Hebrews 10:26, 26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. - ESV

1 John 1:8-10, 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. - ESV

In my Christian walk and personal testimony, I have sinned willfully (deliberately,) caused others to sin, and sinned in order to take shortcuts in my trials, my foolish, folly sins committed, instead of relying on God's strength. I have to lean on the latter passage by getting on my knees everyday, confess, repent and seek His forgiveness daily.

God bless you, 2404, your family and have a blessed Thanksgiving.

Bob

 

[forgiven61]

In my Christian walk and personal testimony, I have sinned willfully (deliberately,) caused others to sin, and sinned in order to take shortcuts in my trials, my foolish, folly sins committed, instead of relying on God's strength. I have to lean on the latter passage by getting on my knees everyday, confess, repent and seek His forgiveness daily.

i think we all fit in this same boat not taking this off course .i am firm beliver in our salvation kept by the power of GOD.. but also 1 john 1:9 is a very Vittel scripture . that must be applied

 

[2404]

Hello 2404;

Please read within the verb of my questions and confession. I'm not baiting nor am I trying to trap you. My sole reason I'm asking is because of our friendship and being brothers in Christ, I just want to have an honest conversation with you and understand your point.

I have been told by Christians that we are saved and don't sin. So when we fall but get right back up, what does that mean?

Does it mean that if I have murderous thoughts of hatred, bitterness, anger and violence toward another man or organization reference Matthew 5:22, or when I battle with letting down the guard of my heart and tongue, or (with high respect to my wife) in the past whenever I saw an attractive woman my eyes would wander and wonder with lust.

Are these examples of falling? How do we get back up?

I'm not referring to unbelievers. If I, a Christian man don't sin and go before God one day, and this holds true then I'm reaping the benefit. But in the meantime, I have to reconcile my understanding between these two Scriptures, beside others, of cleansed by sin or sin;

Hebrews 10:26, 26 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. - ESV

1 John 1:8-10, 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. - ESV

In my Christian walk and personal testimony, I have sinned willfully (deliberately,) caused others to sin, and sinned in order to take shortcuts in my trials, my foolish, folly sins committed, instead of relying on God's strength. I have to lean on the latter passage by getting on my knees everyday, confess, repent and seek His forgiveness daily.

God bless you, 2404, your family and have a blessed Thanksgiving.

Bob

We fall/transgress daily in many ways. Due to our weakness we even transgress when we know better. But our desire, after a transgression is 'oh Lord forgive me', that shows the nature of our heart. If Jesus Christ has accepted our repentance, which is evident by the new birth then we are in Christ and covered by His atonement. Our old man will plague us as long as we are here and the devil's lie is 'look at you...'. We must cast that aside and look at Christ. He is our righteousness. If we stand on that the devil is defeated and we can have faith that will overcome the world - He will work it out in us.

 

[forgiven61]

I have been told by Christians that we are saved and don't sin. So when we fall but get right back up, what does that mean?

that is a 64 thousand dollar question

1 John 3:9​

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

i use this site for a lot of reference you can take it or leave it...

What does 1 John 3:9 mean?​

John continues his teaching on the topic of those who continue in sin. This is most often interpreted as a warning that such people are not believers. While this seems to agree with the general sense of Scripture, John's advice here is actually being targeted specifically at believers. In particular, that there is no excuse for sin in the life of a believer. Grace is a not a license to sin. Those who sin without remorse, conviction, or change have no relationship with Christ whatsoever. But even a saved Christian has to choose good over evil.

In this verse, the emphasis is on the one "born of God." God lives in the believer and the believer can therefore no longer live the same life as prior to becoming God's child. Though believers continue to sin, they will be changed more into the likeness of Christ. God's children are expected to reflect his characteristics to some degree. Again, the emphasis is not on perfection, but likeness. An unchanged person is not a true believer. A true believer cannot help but live differently because God lives within them.


i find much of the things i research to make sense.. some will reject any other reference than the Bible . i use out side resources to help me understand.. the Holy spirit will show me caution and will show me good things.


this is the link if you want check it out for your self https://www.bibleref.com/1-John/3/1-John-3-9.html

 

[bobinfaith]

The crux of Hebrews 10:10 is the doctrine of eternal security! Hence there is only one type of salvation—eternal salvation (Heb 5:9). Does it seem sensible to consider the oxymoron of receiving eternal salvation, then loosing it? If it’s something that one can lose, it’s not eternal. Eternal has only one meaning—forever.

Can one even accurately assume that God would be required to remove eternal life from those to whom He gave it? If God gives eternal life it has to be forever, otherwise it would be to consider that God is ‘fickle.’ No, when eternal life is granted, it has to be permanent, or it wasn’t eternal life. Let’s keep it sensible.

All spiritual growth doctrines derive for the doctrine of eternal-security. It’s not as though one can go in and out of Christ, which again, would be fickle. The only answer is that there are those who think they are in Christ but in reality, they aren’t. This is the hypocrisy and apostasy with which so much of Scripture is taken up.

Of course there will be hypocrites and apostates, for the sake of contrasting what is true and what is false. These are exemplary of the classes of people who demonstrate truth or hypocrisy, in order to identify those who genuinely are seeking truth to please God, or those who eventually realize themselves that they are not truly seeking to please God. One thing is for certain, God will not let anyone continue in ignorance of where one stands concerning truth; for their “sin will find them out” (Num 32:23), and they will move on from the charade. Thankfully what one believes concerning the loss of eternal life has no effect upon one’s salvation, but on one’s growth from salvation.
NC

i think we all fit in this same boat not taking this off course .i am firm beliver in our salvation kept by the power of GOD.. but also 1 john 1:9 is a very Vittel scripture . that must be applied

We fall/transgress daily in many ways. Due to our weakness we even transgress when we know better. But our desire, after a transgression is 'oh Lord forgive me', that shows the nature of our heart. If Jesus Christ has accepted our repentance, which is evident by the new birth then we are in Christ and covered by His atonement. Our old man will plague us as long as we are here and the devil's lie is 'look at you...'. We must cast that aside and look at Christ. He is our righteousness. If we stand on that the devil is defeated and we can have faith that will overcome the world - He will work it out in us.

Hello netchaplain;

With all respect to you being the author of “Once for All" I'd like to comment on very good answers / posts.

Christians must conscientiously live and apply what one believes. We should not proselytize another's belief and convictions within Christianity which can break down our co-existing fellowship with each other. This thread has been a good example.

My wife and I just studied James 3:13,17,18, 13 Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. 18 And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace. - ESV

And James 4:11, 11 Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. 12 There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor? - ESV

I find the best practice is to "listen" to another brother or sister, go into prayer time and ask God what He says. God is consistent and in His time will reveal what His Word says which is good for our personal learning and growing. Meantime we are to continue to pray and minister to our families, communities, labor and sustain the love in Christian fellowship reference, again, James 3:13, 17 and 18.

God bless everyone and thank you.

Bob

 

[netchaplain]

Christians must conscientiously live and apply what one believes. We should not proselytize another's belief and convictions within Christianity which can break down our co-existing fellowship with each other. This thread has been a good example.

Yes, how we share our belief's with one another is one of the most important aspects of being in the faith. We should share in a manner of teaching, and not by pressing others in what we believe. If we are always seeking truth with what we believe is truth, the Spirit "will guide you into all truth" (Mat 7:7; Jhn 16:13).

I find the best practice is to "listen" to another brother or sister,

This is the most important part of our fellowship with one another, that is, thinking of others before ourselves (Phl 2:3); and the significance of this cannot be overexpressed, as it is one of the ways we show our love to one another!

God is consistent and in His time will reveal what His Word says which is good for our personal learning and growing.

Yes, He will give us understanding, if we patiently wait for it (Eph 5:17; 2Ti 2:7). Waiting on the answers is a requisite, and it's in the waiting that we demonstrate trusting God to give us our needs in His time," as you've mentioned. He is very timely!

Appreciate much your replies and comments. I believe they are useful instruction in the Word.

God's blessings to the Family!

 

[Choose Life]

The crux of Hebrews 10:10 is the doctrine of eternal security! Hence there is only one type of salvation—eternal salvation (Heb 5:9). Does it seem sensible to consider the oxymoron of receiving eternal salvation, then loosing it? If it’s something that one can lose, it’s not eternal. Eternal has only one meaning—forever.

Can one even accurately assume that God would be required to remove eternal life from those to whom He gave it? If God gives eternal life it has to be forever, otherwise it would be to consider that God is ‘fickle.’ No, when eternal life is granted, it has to be permanent, or it wasn’t eternal life. Let’s keep it sensible.

All spiritual growth doctrines derive for the doctrine of eternal-security. It’s not as though one can go in and out of Christ, which again, would be fickle. The only answer is that there are those who think they are in Christ but in reality, they aren’t. This is the hypocrisy and apostasy with which so much of Scripture is taken up.

Of course there will be hypocrites and apostates, for the sake of contrasting what is true and what is false. These are exemplary of the classes of people who demonstrate truth or hypocrisy, in order to identify those who genuinely are seeking truth to please God, or those who eventually realize themselves that they are not truly seeking to please God. One thing is for certain, God will not let anyone continue in ignorance of where one stands concerning truth; for their “sin will find them out” (Num 32:23), and they will move on from the charade. Thankfully what one believes concerning the loss of eternal life has no effect upon one’s salvation, but on one’s growth from salvation.
NC

Christians are saved, unless they choose not to be.

can it be lost?

God said to cain 'If you do well, will you not be accepted? Sin lies at the door, but you must master it'

Therefore, choose Life

 

[bobinfaith]

Christians are saved, unless they choose not to be. can it be lost? God said to cain 'If you do well, will you not be accepted? Sin lies at the door, but you must master it'
Therefore, choose Life

Hello Choose Life;

(tongue in cheek) I got it! lol!

After reading your post I'll always remain bob in faith.

 

[netchaplain]

Christians are saved, unless they choose not to be.

can it be lost?

God said to cain 'If you do well, will you not be accepted? Sin lies at the door, but you must master it'

Therefore, choose Life

Hi, and appreciate your reply and comments! We can suspect others are saved if they say they love and obey God. One doesn't love God because of obeying Him, but obeys Him because of loving Him. It's love to God, then obedience. Therefore a Christian in one who will always choose to love and obey Him, because He makes sure he will never want to choose not to love Him (Phl 2:13).

 

[Secured]

The crux of Hebrews 10:10 is the doctrine of eternal security! Hence there is only one type of salvation—eternal salvation (Heb 5:9). Does it seem sensible to consider the oxymoron of receiving eternal salvation, then loosing it? If it’s something that one can lose, it’s not eternal. Eternal has only one meaning—forever.

Can one even accurately assume that God would be required to remove eternal life from those to whom He gave it? If God gives eternal life it has to be forever, otherwise it would be to consider that God is ‘fickle.’ No, when eternal life is granted, it has to be permanent, or it wasn’t eternal life. Let’s keep it sensible.

All spiritual growth doctrines derive for the doctrine of eternal-security. It’s not as though one can go in and out of Christ, which again, would be fickle. The only answer is that there are those who think they are in Christ but in reality, they aren’t. This is the hypocrisy and apostasy with which so much of Scripture is taken up.

Of course there will be hypocrites and apostates, for the sake of contrasting what is true and what is false. These are exemplary of the classes of people who demonstrate truth or hypocrisy, in order to identify those who genuinely are seeking truth to please God, or those who eventually realize themselves that they are not truly seeking to please God. One thing is for certain, God will not let anyone continue in ignorance of where one stands concerning truth; for their “sin will find them out” (Num 32:23), and they will move on from the charade. Thankfully what one believes concerning the loss of eternal life has no effect upon one’s salvation, but on one’s growth from salvation.
NC

save, saved and salvation, according to Strong's concordance means, save=deliver, saved=delivered and salvation=deliverance.

There is an eternal deliverance that was accomplished by God's grace in having his Son Jesus to redeem from their sins all of those that he gave him, without the loss of one. (John 6:37).

There is a deliverance, as they live here on earth, for all of those that Jesus died for, and are born again, when they repent, and follow his instructions.

You are correct in affirming that those, that Jesus died for, can never lose their eternal deliverance.

There is an eternal deliverance by God's grace, without the works of mankind, and there is a deliverance received. for God's born again children, as they sojourn here on earth, by their works of repenting and following God's instructions.

 

[In Awe of Him]

Well... WOW.... This is the FIRST time I have witnessed this topic being discussed with RESPECT. OH my goodness... it seems the Lord delights in revealing to me on a daily basis how special and safe these forums really are.