Your true "Service to God"

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by JohnC, Dec 3, 2015.

  1. I guess I feeling kinda dense but I am just not getting the whole iniquity thing. I feel like you are agreeing with me but the semantics/ terminology / vocabulary is throwing me off.

    It feels like you are saying that "iniquity" - aka wickedness - should more properly be defined as intentionally failing to follow God rather than our usual definition of intentionally not living up to some ethical or moral standard that exists independent of God....

    And therefore - failing to recognize and follow God's true calling for us (which in Abrahams case was to wander around in the land of Canaan for example) should properly be characterized as wickedness even though there is no prima facia overstepping of a garden variety moral standard such as murder, rape, or idolatry...

    Am I anywhere in the vicinity?
  2. Iniquity is when a man decides on his own to do any works that the Bible describes as holy, and just. Even Jesus, the Son of God said "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord (John 5:19) Of course the man part Jesus could have decided to do his own thing with out the direction of His Father, or the Holy Spirit, and if he would have that would have been called iniquity. As a Christian it is not our decision when, how, or where God himself decides to use us for his Glory. It is as the Spirit wills. Very few brothers and sisters in the Lord understand this, and they go about doing things without the Lord guiding them, or even telling them to do such things. This is also called "iniquity". A son of God is someone who is lead by the Spirit of God in all they say or do. Abraham fully understood this when in Romans it says...

    Rom 4:20.. He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
    Rom 4:21.. And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
    Rom 4:22.. And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

    Abraham was fully persuaded that what God had promised, (in which Abraham had faith in) that he (God) was able to perform. Only God can perform the works of our faith, not us, that is not our job. God the Father was the one working through his Son Jesus. Jesus simply had faith and trust in his Father to perform his works through him. It is exactly the same for all Christians today, it is never our works but the Lord who works through us.
    The Apostle Paul also understood this when he said.......

    1Co 15:10.. But whatever I am now, it is all because God poured out His special favor on me—and not without results. For I have worked harder than any of the other apostles; yet it was not I but God who was working through me by His grace. (NLT)

    Paul worked and labored more than all the other Apostles put together, but he understood that it was never himself that was doing the works, but God himself.

    If Paul or Abraham ever believed it was by their own works that got them where they were they would have been doing "iniquity", but they didn't because they knew it was God who was performing his works through them.
    How many times have we heard preachers tell us just read the Word of God, and then do it? No you don't, unless the Holy Spirit moves you to to do them. and if he (Holy Spirit) does there will power and authority that flows through that person.
  3. 1. I disagree. James 1:27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

    2. You are misinterpreting Paul. Paul is simply giving the glory to God. Did Paul lose free will? God gives us air and bodies. Gods love fills and prompts His people. I believe you are abnormally reading into this to push a belief /faith > works message. Belief comes after works / being after His heart. Many in the OT got themselves into Abrahams Bosom. It is the same NT. The Lord makes the effort to get to know those after His heart James 4:8. Would you say all in iniquity are deserving of hell outside of the grace of Jesus / God working through us?
  4. Ok. The answer is that you do agree with me, it's just semantics/vocabary was throwing me off....

    The points you make are a very good one... That ignoring God's specific call on my life and trying to follow a call that I feel is more "holy" is extremely dangerous. It frequently causes more harm than good in the Kingdom because we don't take seriously what God really wants us to do and focus on other things. We spend all our effort trying to get the preacher to allow us to lead a bible study and ignore creating profit and good paying jobs at work.

    My leaning on this matter is that what you are speaking about is a direct consequence of eating the tree of them knowledge of good and evil in the garden. Through this event - we inherit a sense of ethics, morality, and conduct that defines behavior as "good" or "evil" outside of God's will.... We decide on the black and white and the shades of gray.... It's a great discussion, related to this post about discerning your true service to God....

    Aka Abraham's primary service to God was to wander around in Canaan and to be fruitful while he did. His ministry was specifically NOT to stay in Ur and preach YHWH. Other prophets were specifically called to stay and preach right where they were at - like Isaiah.

    I think it takes us right back to The Shema.... Hear God... Today... Right now. Listen to what he is saying right now today... Don't ignore God today in lieu of someone else's guidance 3,000 years ago.

  5. Jeremiah 22:15-16 to the ruling house of David...
    "...Did not your father eat and drink
    And do justice and righteousness
    And it was well with him.
    Did he not judge the cause of the poor and needy.
    And it was well
    Was this not knowing me?" Says The Lord.

    Notice again here that God equates following through with His call on your vocation with "knowing Him". That should make us pause.

    We see the same in Revelation 2-3. Every time we read the word "works" it could be properly translates as "occupation". It does not mean miscellaneous religious feeling stuff we do - but rather the occupation God has called you to do.

    What I continue to find is that this theme runs through the bible end to end.

    Failing to be effective and taking our day jobs seriously as a real ministry to God profanes the Name of The Lord. People speak ill of our Lord when we pour chaos, anger, hurt, uncertainty, and frustration down on them.


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