Your opinion on women preachers

Discussion in 'Biblical Advices' started by violet, Jun 21, 2007.

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  1. I think GsusFrk nailed it. Just because this idea is hard to grasp and completely unpopular in our society doesn't make it acceptable to ignore.

    That's not at all what God instructs. I think you're taking scripture and twisting it to suit your viewpoint. Women are essential to the role of God's work, as are men, but they are used in different ways. We cannot allow ourselves to get caught up in which role is better or worse, they're all equally important.

    If a woman believes that her calling is to be the pastor of a church, I would have to wonder if it's her pride or God's plan that led here there...I'm going to give God the benefit of the doubt. The same goes true with many men...there are TONS of pastors that have not been genuinely called, but do so because they want the glory.
     
  2. Paul states that he does not permit a woman to teach or have authority.

    I believe Paul is speaking as Paul and not for God in this passage. If he meant God does not allow this, then why not say so?
     

  3. Hi Bridgit,
    In answer to your question, We help each other here.....
    The women are helping men, men are helping women.
    It is a learning experience for us all and equivilent to witnessing;
    sharing our faith.
    I think it is that women are not to teach men in church.
    But as I mentioned before, we as women are told to teach the younger women in how to be wives, mothers, homekeepers.
    If there were more wise and gifted women doing this inside and outside of the churches, our daughters would be better off, marriages would be more successful and so on.
    This is an important scripture, commandment in teaching that is very much overlooked.
    Blessings,
     
  4. Hismanysongs, Hello,
    In the chapter you mentioned,1Timothy2,
    2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.

    verses 3 and 4 says this~


    3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
    4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

    Who has authority?

    Also, All authors of the Bible were inspired by God.
    Blessings to you~

     
  5. We need to be careful about doing things like this. We shouldn't try assume things that are not consistent throughout the Bible.

    Paul reminded his readers that he was an Apostle of Jesus Christ. This was a title not given to everyone. Only those who had been with Jesus from the beginning of his ministry to his resurrection were called his apostolic witnesses (Acts 1:21-22). Paul qualified because he had seen the risen Christ (1 Corinthians 15:4-10).
    In his writings Paul used the word “apostle" to Show his Authority. Where “apostle†takes on more meaning through the phrase “of Jesus Christ†(1 Corinthians 1:1; 2 Corinthians 1:1; 11:13; Galatians 1:1; Ephesians 1:1; Colossians 1:1; 1 Thessalonians 2:6). The “sent one†is the “sent one of Jesus Christ†So when the apostles spoke, it was supposed to represent God's views.

    They is only one time I could think of where it didn't. 1 Cor 7. Paul was very specific when he is sharing his own opinion and not necessarily something God commands.
     
  6. OK lets look at 1 Timothy 2:11-15 from a couple of different versions:
    If you insert the footnote (b) in the NLT version, there seems to be agreement. Paul does not want women to 'take over.' I think this was more a reflection of the times and the roles of men and women.

    It's also interesting to note how Eugene Peterson translates verse 15. Here it is childbearing which brought about salvation (Mary bore Jesus) not that having children will save a woman.
     
  7. My question is how can a woman be the husband of a wife as Paul mentioned. Well, come to think of it--in this day of "gay" ministers, I guess that is possible. Another question is which one is the wife, and which one is the husband?:D;)
     
  8. Allot of the things in the Bible probably don't apply to these times. I believe a woman can be as good as a teacher as a man can. A woman with authority can lead an army as well as a man could.

    -Nate
     
  9. Nate, you are right, a woman can have authority over men in many situations but remember, the Bible says, not in church!
     
  10. Jon Marc, aha, a man with a sense of humor!
    Though what you said is just about right in this era!
    :):eek::)
     
  11. Much of Paul's writings about women taking positions and teaching in churches were specifically aimed at particular churches and situations IIRC. I remember a study on this once, stating that in Chorinth, in the Jewish church, women were not allowed to speak or learn. But with the rise of Christianity, women were being allowed to learn openly and not simply from their husbands and fathers. But, they were newly learning. They did not have the background in scripture that people raised in the church had, and therefore did not have the foundation to really preach about anything. Simply because, their knowledge in this case was lacking, and their experience was that of a child.

    Violet, I was referring more of a general "calling" to the ministry. Not specifically women, but all preachers. Because being a pastor is a huge responsibility, and we need pastors who are willing to really sacrifice everything for their calling. Those who have more important responsibilities, or other things they want to do with their lives can certainly hold positiions in church, including teaching and preaching even. I just think, that if anyone feels CALLED into ministry, you will know it's truly a calling, because they won't be happy doing anything else.
     
  12. 1 Timothy 2:9-12

    In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; 10But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
    11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
    12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.



    It is imperative that we look at the context of what is being written. Because for those of you that apply verse 12 and say that women should not preach over men, should also apply verse 9 that says, women shouldn't wear jewelry, have expensive clothes, or braid their hair.
    I believe Paul was addressing an issue in that particular church, with women trying to take over the authority of the man.
    Men are supposed to have authority over the woman, but this does not mean that the woman is wrong or condemned for preaching.

    There are many examples in the Bible of women who preached to crowds.
    I.E. Luke 2:36 The prophetess Anna was at the temple day and night fasting and praying. She began to preach about the child (Jesus) to ALL (not just women) who where looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.
    God also used Esther to call an entire nation to fasting and prayer and He used her to save the entire nation of Israel.




    On a side note, God can use anything or anyone to speak His word...If He can use a donkey, I think He can use a woman. Besides, coming from a male point of view, men are not stepping up to the plate as much as they need to be, so maybe God is having to use women for the lack of true male leadership.
     
  13. I'll tell you what~ I appreciate everyone's opinion and if I am wrong about something I want to know, learn and understand why.

    To be honest, reading one opinion at a time makes sense and I still am not sure how God feels about this today.

     
  14. But the church is us, the body of believers. Also, we have no personal authority. When we communicate with others about God, it is by Christ's authority that we are speaking. By ourselves we are nothing.
     
  15. My opinion

    I was raised that it was wrong for women to be the head. But I have no problems with a woman preacher as long as she isnt the pastor of the church. God said the man is the head not the women. ALthough in my church my pastor would probably rather have a stroke than ever let a women in the pulpit. I say women preacher are okay but not women Pastors.
     
  16. what the early church taught

    I am sorry roman but the above quote is simply not true from the very begining the church taught that as violet said woman are not to preach if they where Jesus would have picked some to be Apostles and the Apostles would have picked some to be Bishops that is all for now i will post something in more detail at a latter date

    May The Lord Bless
    daniel2macarius
     
  17. If you think in terms of family structure it's not hard to see how we got to this discussion.
    The family is in trouble, the worlds solution is to redefine the family. It's like saying I can't find as many apples as I used to find so I'll solve that problem by renaming apples to include anything I find. An apple is an apple, a family is a family, there is no new definition to either. That's a hard truth that needs a ton of love behind speaking it.
    God created the family first. Is there a father in a family? yes is the correct answer.
    God created His church to be like a family. Would God create the family with a father as head and a church with a woman as head? Jesus said I do only what my Father does.

    There are as many fatherless families in the church as in the world so we need to be aware of the changing needs in the church family. But we don't need to redefine it. We can love and help the single mothers without changing anything. We can help carry the burden of what our current culture has brought us. We just need to submit ourselves to God and not to our circumstances.
     
  18. No, there is a difference in witnessing and holding the office of preacher/teacher. A woman is allowed to share her faith to the lost. By the way the command is to go and tell, not invite them into the church and share, so the pulpit is not her venue.
    God has commanded women not to be pastors or teach men in the organized church. They are not allowed too have any authority over any man in the church, ever. Any deviation of this is rebellion against God and holds serious consequences no matter how much good it may seem she is doing. Uzza is a prime example.

     
  19. 1 Timothy 2:9-12

    9.In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with braided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
    10.But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.
    11.Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
    12.But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

    This is God imparting wisdom through Paul to women. Expectation being that they would take it and use it to better serve the Lord. It is not some legalistic commandment or doctrine to be debated, contested and or rejected to accommidate personal desires or cultures.
    There are very good reasons for the biblical structure for the church and for women not to be head of it.

    Let me ask the women here some questions.

    Is there any one of you who would not have a problem with submitting to a husband that was in submission to another woman, in or out of the church????? His mother, his woman boss or woman pastor???

    If your husband is to go on a business trip or work late with the boss /Pastor?? Which do you prefer they be ??? Man or woman???
    Why????

    And guys it's your turn.

    How would you handle the possition of being in the middle between your wife and a woman boss/pastor that says you need to be working with and or for her????

    And the biggy.

    How immune to the temptations of flesh are you or the woman in a possition of authority over you in or out of church????

    -------------------------------------------------
    Men are biblicaly called to the possition of leadership in the church. It is just as wrong of men to reliquish this possition as it is for a woman to take it.

    It is the mans responcibility and birth right to take the leadership role in the church, in the marriage, and family and to no less extent in his relationship to the world, no matter what is politicaly correct or culturaly acceptable.

    And it has been this way from the Garden of Eden.



    Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

    Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

    You just got to know ,brothers an sisters that if God would have a wife in submission to her husband that he would not upsurd that to allow a woman to have authority over other men in church.
    It is not as much about mans authority over women as it is about the womans willingness to submit the will and plan of God.


    Sincerely His
    Cliff
     
  20. From Notable women of the Bible, http://www.cswnet.com/~duxrow/Women.htm

    Anna - means "grace", Lk2:36 - One of the six women called "Prophetess" in the Bible: Deborah, Judg4:4 - Huldah, 2K22:14 - Mirium, Ex15:20 - 'Mrs.' Isaiah, Isa8:3 - Noadiah, Neh6:14. Rev2:20 speaks of someone named Jezebel who "calls herself a prophetess".

    Deborah - means "bee, wasp". Judges 4:4 says: "And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time". She is one of about twenty persons who "judged Israel" in that time period between Joshua and Saul: the era leading to the Prophet Samuel. Deborah's only recorded prophecy concerned the outcome of the battle between Barak and Sisera. Judg4:9


    Elisabeth - means "God of the Covenant" (or oath) -- [Heb: berith, Grk: diatheke, Eng: contract/agreement/pledge/promise] - Mother of John the Baptist, wife of Zacharias the priest, and cousin of Mary, mother of Jesus. Barren until late in life, similar to Sarah, Hannah, Rachel, etc. Her name comes from the wife of the non-celibate high priest Aaron: Elisheba had four sons: Ex6:23.

    Esther - means "Star". One of just two books named after women. She's theyoung Jewish beauty selected to replace the disobedient Queen Vashti. Her next of kin Mordecai believed it was "for such a time as this" that she was instrumental in providing a Way for the saving of her people from annihilation, and deliverance from the prideful Haman. (Satan)

    Huldah - means "weasel". 2Chr34:22 says she was a prophetess who lived at the college in Jerusalem and was consulted by the great King Josiah (he'd always been a follower of the Lord) who "found a lost book" and now realized they'd been disobedient to what had been written. 2K22:14

    Noah - One of the five(5) daughters of Zelophehad: he had no sons. Numb26:33. Marriage and Inheritance involved here. Numb36:6
    Precepts of how a Son carries on the "The Name", but daughters inherit too. Now we "whosoevers" are joint heirs with Christ! Rom8:17

    Phoebe - means "bright". Spelled Phebe, w/o the "o" in Romans 16:1 (KJV) where Paul commends her, and seems to qualify her as a 'deaconess' (per NIV). Other likely woman names in this chapter include Priscilla, Mary, Persis, Julia, Tryphena, and Tryphosa.

    Priscilla also spelled Prisca - Wife to Aquila (eagle); this New Testament couple had accompanied the Apostle Paul, and so they took Apollos (who was very learned in O.T. theology) aside to explain things more fully. Acts 18:24. Paul called them his "helpers in Christ", Rom16:3, and referred to the Church in their house with the mystery "Mary" who labored in the Lord.

    Ruth - means "Friend". Think Truth with a capital "T". Her first mother-in-law is Naomi, but her second is Rahab who marries into the tribe of Judah, and bears a son named Boaz: the Redeemer-Husband! Isa54:5 Ruth is a Gentile: the scripture foretelling concerning the Bride of Christ, the Church or part thereof, and how we achieve the victory by gleaning in His fields only.


    From: http://www.churchofgoddfw.com/monthly/junia.shtml
    Junia, A Woman Apostle


    By Dianne D. McDonnell


    For many years many thought Junia(s) was a man--or if they admitted she was a woman, they discounted her as just someone highly regarded by the apostles. Recent scholarship proves she was both a female and an apostle! But let's start by looking at each piece of this scripture puzzle.
    Romans 16:7
    "Greet Andronicus and Junias (Junia) my relatives who have been in prison with me. They are outstanding among the apostles, and they were in Christ before I was." NIV (The NAS and NASU both use "outstanding", the KJV uses "of note" meaning notable.)
     
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