You Are The Healed: Reason 03

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by MichaelH, Feb 18, 2014.

  1. Forgiveness and Healing are part of the package
    1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

    Praise God everyone!

    Peter is quoting part of Isa

    Surely our sicknesses he hath borne
    , And our pains--he hath carried them, And we--we have esteemed him plagued, Smitten of God, and afflicted. And he is pierced for our transgressions, Bruised for our iniquities, The chastisement of our peace is on him, And by his bruise there is healing to us.
    (Isa 53:4-5)

    Being forgiven also includes being healed. One goes with the other. As we learned in Reason 01, Jesus bore the punishment we deserved from the curse being made a curse for us.

    Now some who don't want to believe anything say this is "Spiritual Healing" they don't even know what the heck that is, just as long as they have to have faith for anything. Its all up to God they say, but God commanded us to believe His Word and take heed to what He said.

    The Word is Spirit and Life, so of course it's spiritual, but God sent his Word to effect the Natural, Not just move some things around in the spiritual realm we can't see and has no benefit.

    The Holy Spirit however helped us interpret this verse by comparing Spiritual with Spiritual.

    And evening having come, they brought to him many demoniacs, and he did cast out the spirits with a word, and did heal all who were ill, that it might be fulfilled that was spoken through Isaiah the prophet, saying, `Himself took our infirmities, and the sicknesses he did bear.'
    (Mat 8:16-17)

    See, the Holy Spirit saw that the passage in Isiah was physical healing, not just some strange spiritual healing.

    Healing follows after being forgiven. We just don't take a few verses to make a doctrine though. Let's get more evidence.
    And he that was healed wist not who it was: for Jesus had conveyed himself away, a multitude being in that place. Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
    (Joh 5:13-14)

    Jesus said sin no more because once the mans healing came, the sin part was taken care of. Jesus said go sin no more, so the idea is that sin gives place to the devil or we can say disobedience to God brings the curse by which all sickness on the earth is mentioned. (Deut 28)

    Healing and Forgiveness are the complete package.

    You don't have to suffer because you believe you deserve it

    Now some believers think that just because they have HIV, or have been crippled in a car crash they caused by drinking and driving that killed someone else, that it's just part of their punishment.
    They have not forgiven themselves and feel that they deserve the trauma they have caused their body because of their sins. Some believe they are forgiven but have to keep the results of the sin that harmed their body.

    I have good news, If God forgave you, then what caused the trauma to your body is also forgiven and healing follows being forgiven.

    Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
    (Psa 103:2-3)

    To say it's not God's will to heal everyone, would be to say it's not God's will to also forgive everyone.

    It's would be like telling someone who came to the Alter to give their life to Jesus this..... Now, Now. I know you came up for Alter call. I know you confessed the Lord Jesus and you want to be saved. I understand that, but you just never know what God is going to do. You might be saved, you might not. God is just so mysterious in all his ways when it comes to Choosing Jesus to be the Lord of your life. Now, you will find out later my son. If you knock the bottom out of Hell, then you know that God did not respond to your call for Jesus. If you end up in Heaven then you know that you got saved. We just never know.

    If there is forgiveness, then there is healing!!! Otherwise God lied and that can't be the case.

    One more witness:
    Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
    (Jas 5:14-15)

    What does the prayer of faith do? It saves the sick, but it also does something else automatically because healing is involved. Because Forgiveness and healing are a package, the person not only gets healed but they also are forgiven.

    So, if there is Forgiveness with God, then there is also Healing. One goes with the other. You can believe two things now. Believe and receive your forgiveness and believe and receive your healing.

  2. Mike........I wish that the healing of all people was the Biblical truth but alas it is not. You are teaching Pentacostal theology NOT Bible theology. Not everyone can be healed.

    The Bible teaches that it must be the will of God in order for someone to be healed. It is a mistaken idea to believe that James in chapter 5 is referring to some kind of religious ceremony of placing oil from a bottle on someone's head as if that has some kind of healing merit in it. YES, it may help the believer to "feel" better mentally and to be encourage but it has no healing effect at all.

    James tells us to do what we all should do. When someone is sick, "anoint thine head" (wash up, comb your hair), call for the church to pray for your health, and go to the best doctor you can find.
  3. Sure, sometimes God heals through medicine...He commanded the Prophet to make a poultice if figs to heal a certain kind of boil (it still works...drying it up and drawing out the puss)...Jesus mixed saliva with a certain kind of clay to remove the scales from a persons I know that is not many examples but do not forget, Luke was a physician and that is noted in the Bible...I am sure he did not stop...maybe he even cared for Paul's wounds and so on...the Bible does not tell us all the truth just that all it tells us is true...antibiotics kill infections and one kind cures actual leprosy...I am not talking of sorceries (pharmakai) which is used to harm or control or manipulate people, I am talking about doing a very important work of the body of Christ....healing people...making them well...

    I personally always go to God first (as I am sure you all do...I would hope) but do not dismiss the wonderful miracles He has blessed the human mind with...He made us to discover and use these things...Michael acts as if none of us should ever be sick but as I pointed out to him, these bodies are part of the fallen first Adam's day we will out them off. Sickness is definitely an unfortunate consequence of Adam's disobedience as is death because we all have sinned...besides...we know he gets sick sometimes as well...but does not God still heal until it is time to pass over? Now surely He has borne our sicknesses...

    But he was wounded H2490 for our transgressions, H6588he was bruised H1792 for our iniquities: H5771 the chastisement H4148 of our peace H7965was upon him; and with his stripes H2250 we are healed. H7495

    Healed of what? These things! The things He was wounded for. He healed us of our transgressions, our iniquities, and the disturbance of our peace...His stripes, His shed blood was for the forgiveness and remission of sins and to free us from held us bound.

    Just my $.02

    brother Paul
  4. I thoroughly believe in healing. When my wife, a Spaniard, came to meet some of my friends, one of them asked me to translate a question "how long have you suffered from headaches?" I was shocked. I didn't know she was suffering, she never said anything and she wasn't pulling on her neck or head or any indication, and the question came within 45 sec of meeting them. So I asked. She replied that a large pot had fallen on her head at work a couple of months before. My friend prayed over her and the headaches left and never returned. Amazing.

    However, 6 years later she develops a thyroid condition because of the pregnancy of our second child. She has yet to be healed and that child is now 18. Nothing we do, say or pray is healing her. I thoroughly believe in healing, but believing isn't enough.
  5. Well, Praise God Paul, I am glad you do believe and Jesus paid for Adams transgression for How much more....... Jesus fixed than Adam blew it. There is healing in God's wings. He bore our sickness and disease. (Both Hebrew words are in there).

    Now if I could Get brother Paul to stop misquoting me, I would be even more blessed!!!

    These Bodies are not fallen, they are redeemed and not our own. They belong to GOD!!! Scripture............

    Still, By his stripes we are healed would not even be in there if we did not need healing ever. James would not say if there be any sick among you, call the elders of the church and the prayer of faith shall save the sick if we never had to deal with sickness. Would not even need those verses.

    We have a devil, we have a flesh body and the two mixed makes messes. Even enticing to sin it's just a bad mix.

    There might be a reason to watch our adversary the devil and resist him steadfast in the faith, might be a reason to fight the good fight of faith, and that includes all the Word we observe.

    How can it be folks think I just blindly miss scripture. I am trying to encourage and make a point. It would take a book that none of you would read to cover everything. Cut Mike some slack here, I have something important to share.

    What happens If I get hurt badly or sick?
    (I should not even have to post these, it's in scripture)

    1) Wisdom is the principle thing, therefore get Wisdom. Faith is not the principle thing, wisdom is. Without wisdom we don't even know what to believe God for. Before taking a stand on scriptures, get direction.
    By His stripes I am healed does not mean we dictate to God how that happens. lean not to our own understanding but in all our ways acknowledge God. Jesus healed many different ways. Naaman complained about how God wanted to heal him. Wash in some dirty river. GET WISDOM FIRST

    2) Once you got direction, get your scriptures and keep them before you. The devil will give 10 reasons why God does not want you healed. Get a foundation and cover the enemy at every angle. Remember, He is an adversary and we resist him by faith. No scripture, No Word, No faith. Meditate on the Word, write them down, take them with you. Keep focused on the Word and God. Not like Peter who focused on the wind, or Israel who focused on giants.

    3) Side with God.............. I am Healed........ Not trying to get healed, or could be. Call those things that be not as though they were, just speak the Word only. Jesus said believe you receive, then you shall have it. If you switch that around, your in trouble. It's real simple, just speak the Word. How hard can that be?

    4) Give God thanks. There seems to be great power in just praising God. Can't say I understand all that but be thankful. If one finger is smashed, then focus on the one that did not get smashed. I got healed almost instantly from drinking bleach and window cleaner by just saying Thank you Father, for you said if I drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt me. That is all it took, I was thankful He said that.

    5) Your healing was a test....... (No God does not test anyone with evil, but God does consider how we handle adverse situations) I think you find most of what you go through in life, gets used to help others. What we learned though things, believed on is for someone else. Paul said Glory in tribulations.... Why? Because it tries patience and patience brings experience and experience brings Hope. You get though one thing then that experience tells you nothing else will mater down the road. David said God gave the Bear and Lion into my hands....... Experience Told David a giant who did not even have a covenant with God will fare much worse than a lion or a bear.

    6) Stop misquoting and picking on Mike. It will make you feel better.

    No Major.............. read again............... The Prayer of Faith shall save........... Shall......... shall......... and God will rise them up. Who will?

    Now if you don't even practice that or believe it having not even given God a chance....... why comment. It works every time someone who works it.

    Major I was preaching in a small church, Night crowed who just hated me but it was a favor for a Pastor. I was real careful to not get to "Faithy"

    Had to do the alter call, anyone who wants to give their life to Jesus come up.

    had a landslide of ONE.

    A young girl someone brought to church with them. Did the confess Jesus thing with her, she cried and time to go home. She does something though in front of all these people who were just glaring at me. Something she had no clue about, just her concept of God I guess.

    She asked me real loud like it seemed. "Will God heal my Stomach?"

    Now praise God she did not end up in front of some be thy will pastor who don't know God from a cow.

    How do you answer that one? I said, "God will heal you right here and now."

    Now, I don't carry oil.......... so........... But the scripture in James was in my mind and a bunch others. I asked if I could put my hand on her stomach and she said yes. I then said.... "Devil, in the name of Jesus, get your hands off God's property!!!! Stomach be strong, be whole, work as God intended you to work."

    She grabbed her stomach and fell down to her knees crying again. Not knowing really what to do I asked one of the ladies to come talk with her.

    About 10 minutes later as I was trying to bolt out of there she came up to me and asked me...... Since God healed me can I go eat with my friends. I told her eat whatever she wants. She smiled and left.

    2 days later I had her and a couple adults come to my house, show me these scans and told me they did not need to do do surgery, the scans showed scars where something repaired all the ulcerations in her stomach. I found out she had to be on a liquid diet and was suppose to get operated on the next day.

    Major, You came to late brother to convince me............ James says the prayer of faith saves the sick............ Not the prayer I hope it works saves the sick.
  6. Now if I could Get brother Paul to stop misquoting me, I would be even more blessed!!!

    These Bodies are not fallen, they are redeemed and not our own. They belong to GOD!!! Scripture............

    true and they will become perfect again when He returns to claim us...but not until then or you would never physically die because of your faith but I would because of my lack of without a doubt, Jesus is not a liar and we do have eternal life but our bodies (though redeemed) are still part of this fallen creation...And yes they belong to God and He is doing with them just as He planned (three score and ten give or take a few)...and one day...the resurrection (when we are 'face to face') until then, let us know the next time you are ill and we will pray with and for you.

    The Lord bless, Michael
  7. That was a wonderful story Mike. But there are just as many, probably more where such things have taken place and the little girl or boy or whoever 2 days later found out that that had an ulcer or tumor and the healing was adrenalin or the excitement of the moment.

    I for one am not going to argue with you on what you saw or took part in. I do however suggest to you that as a human, with pre-conceived notions on this subject, try to look at it with eyes that have not been convinced in it.

    Remember, you are of the Pentacostal denomination and what you described, is exactly what you would be wanting to see happen.

    I for one am not saying that God does not heal for I have seen the evidence time and time again. What I do say however is that God is not at the beck and call of any human being to show off His ability to heal. That power does not rest in the hands of men.
  8. I believe that is absolutely correct. The body is placed into the ground at death but the spirit goes to be with the Lord. We all know that and accept that.

    Bro. Paul says that the body is resurrected at the Rapture (At least that is what I believe) and then the spirit is returned to that resurrected body.
  9. I understand Major........ that is not what I am trying to show. I already talked about tempting God with scripture examples.

    Is God at the beck and call when someone wants to get saved? They told to wait, come back next Sunday? Not one time have I seen any Pastor send someone away telling them we just don't put God in a box like that. You just can't make Jesus your Lord anytime you feel like it.

    You guys practice that at your church? Tell those that want to get saved that we just can't force God to do anything and you have to stay lost until we think God is good and ready to save you?

    The same scripture that says by his stripes ye are healed, Same scripture that says according to his divine power we have all things that pertain to life, is the same scripture that says whosoever believes on me shall not perish. All of them are past tense.

    You believe God supplys all our needs according to his Riches and Glory? You ever starve to death and die. God ever tell you He don't have time to take care of you or you family?

    Major to say it's not God's will to always heal, is to say it's not his will to forgive always. That means Nobody gets saved until some how God just says he open for business on the days he wants. That is what the thread is about.

    Forgiveness always is connected with healing.

    I even gave scripture. Here is another.

    Psa 25:18 Look upon mine affliction and my pain; and forgive all my sins.

    You think God said...... ummmm I'll cover the forgive part, but i am not open today for the affliction and pain part.

    how are you reading scripture? Bless the Lord all my soul who forgives all my iniquities and heals all my diseases.
    If one is true, then the other must be true.

    I think it's more an issue of expecting to actually see the healing and doubting because you can't see a sin being forgiven. I think that is the real issue because the scripture is just as true in both cases.

  10. Of course not one sends away anyone who asks........"What must I do to be saved"????

    Is God at mans beck and call when he wants to be saved. ABSOLUTLY!
    "Believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved"!

    But you are comparing "spiritual" things with "physical" things. It will not work Mike.

    You are trying to place physical healing on the same level as spiritual healing.

    Isaiah 53:6 does NOT say anything about the physical healing of the body. IT is all about SIN Mike.

    We are all SIN SICK. Now........God saves us from the inside out my friend. He save our soul from hell unto heaven. BUT while we are alive on this earth we will have pain and suffering!!!

    Consider how God actually does uses suffering and tribulation among the brethren,

    2 Cort, 1:3-8
    "who comforts us in all our affliction, so that we may be able to comfort those who are in any affliction, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. 5 For as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too. 6 If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer. 7 Our hope for you is unshaken, for we know that as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in our comfort.
    8 For we do not want you to be unaware, brothers, of the affliction we experienced in Asia. For we were so utterly burdened beyond our strength that we despaired of life itself.

    There it is my brother in the Scriptures, in the black and white for you to think about.
  11. First, let no man complain about his own faults//////////// Peter.
    Nothing in those scriptures about sickness, it was persecution for preaching the Word. Not only that be we are comforted. Paul is talking about what He suffered for preaching.

    The same Paul who said God is faithful to deliver us from unreasonable and wicked men.
    Here is what the Holy Spirit compared Isa to.

    Surely our sicknesses he hath borne, And our pains--he hath carried them, And we--we have esteemed him plagued, Smitten of God, and afflicted. And he is pierced for our transgressions, Bruised for our iniquities, The chastisement of our peace is on him, And by his bruise there is healing to us.
    (Isa 53:4-5)

    It's actually Sickness

    Hebrew for Sickness and disease........... it's Physical and never used one time in the OT to mean something spiritual.

    Jesus bore that punishment we deserved.

    What the Holy Spirit say about the Passage in Isiah?

    And evening having come, they brought to him many demoniacs, and he did cast out the spirits with a word, and did heal all who were ill, that it might be fulfilled that was spoken through Isaiah the prophet, saying, `Himself took our infirmities, and the sicknesses he did bear.'
    (Mat 8:16-17)

    Cast out devils and healed all that were ill.

    When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and healed all that were sick: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare our sicknesses.
    (Mat 8:16-17)

    You saying these folks got born again and healed of some spiritual sickness? This is what the Holy Spirit compared scriptures with and it was Physical Healing............

    There are my scriptures by what the Holy Spirit connected that Passage to Isa to. black and white Brother.
  12. #12 Brother Paul, Feb 19, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 19, 2014
    Michael, do you even know what you are saying? Be specific....Are you saying no Christian if they have real faith should ever be ill? If they really believe the word they would never get sick? Is that it?

    We have all said God heals (but He does not always heal, He is sovereign and does so for His purpose). And yes Jesus healed all who were brought to Him or came to Him for it (however not all people in the world who have come to believe Christ stay healthy... Pentecostals get sick just like everyone else...only I must admit I never met a polytheistic Pentecostal)...and Young is the only translator who uses "And" instead of "But" in verse 5...

    The sentence in ends with the word for afflicted. Do you imagine that the Hebrews did not know how to write in their own native tongue? Yes of course He did this (vs. 4) and while He was yet alive He demonstrated this, and He who is living still heals to this very day. I cannot count how many times He has healed me and even frought me back from the valley of the shadow of death (at least twice).

    But the reason for His CRUCIFIXION was ...But He was wounded for....our iniquities were...and by this chastisement He restored our Shalom (Shalom with God, the Shalom of God, and our Shalom with one another)...YES CHRIST HEALS but the Lord laid OUR INIQUITY on this we are healed in a different way...a much more important sin, sickness, and death are all dealt with in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ but the full realization of that for us comes when we are with Him and when He appears we will be like Him...

    The LXX concludes Isaiah 53:4 as one completed thought, just as it is in the Hebrew. Then Isaiah 53:5 begins with "BUT He was wounded for "a second thought another purpose in all this is begun (though related it is not one continuation, therefore the conclusion of that related thought goes with the things just mentioned, just as the conclusion (yet we esteemed Him stricken of God in His affliction.) in verse 4 speaks to what had previously been said there.

    So in verse four, even though He did these things for us we esteemed or assumed Him smitten by God is one thing (in fact this sentence does not even say He actually was smitten by God, as in enduring a full outpouring of the Father's wrath as some mis says WE esteemed this or thought this to be the reason...but the REAL REASON is revealed in the next verse...)
  13. Michaelh said in Reply 11
    Paul I did not finish reading what you said this time. I stopped here.

    You keep misquoting me because you want to believe in 15 years of teaching healing and faith that I have not covered all my bases. Have a very reasonable explinatin for Paul's Thorn, Job and so on

    And you think I am dumb as rocks.

    I even if I put out a neon sign you will still say I said different.

    I was very specific.

    WE GET SICK!!!!

    I coughed blood for 6 months, Drank Bleach, Hurt my back I could hardly move, My daughter gets sick.............

    I never say anything you accuse me of.

    It's very discouraging, just to let you know. Knowing that no matter what I have already said, it does not mean a hill of beans. It's still misquoted and misunderstood.

    Be blessed Paul.
  14. First off I do not think you are dumb as rocks and I have only dealt with what you have said to me (like Job cursed God to His face and so on)...I haven't even quoted you. When any of us say anything (and it seems we all came to the same conclusions) you say we are missing imply at least that we do not get it...

    So what is it we do not get? What do you specifically mean regarding healing then? What is to be for Christians? If it was just to say healing is included, of course, only obviously not right now for THE TRUTH is that we all get sick some times (even the most faithful) if I have missed some point then Major and the others must also have missed it. Are you saying that if we also believe and refuse to accept we will get sick (seeing it as part of the package) then we won't?

    Here I will quote you..."So, if there is Forgiveness with God, then there is also Healing. One goes with the other. You can believe two things now. Believe and receive your forgiveness and believe and receive your healing." So a person who has cancer accepting they are healed should not have cancer anymore? Tell me what do you believe should happen, and if it does not go away what IYO is the problem? They did not believe correctly? They must keep confessing what they believe until the temporal catches up? What...if I am misunderstanding you I want to know...
  15. Mike......I must agree here with Paul. You tend to always imply that it is us who has a problem with what you are trying to say.

    You are, whether admitting it or not, teaching classic Pentacoslism. There are a lot of really wonderful Christian believers on this forum and because we do not accept the tenets of your denomination, that is no reason for you to assume a position of higher thought or spirituality.

    I hope that you hear this with a heart of love and not one of confrontation and argument. It is what I have observed as well as has Brother Paul. I hope you will hear what is being said and understand that it is for your good.

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