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would the ability to carry guns in church be a lack of faith?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by autumn oddity, Jun 21, 2015.

  1. After the issue in SC, I read an article where some say the cause was the fact they weren't armed.

    At the same Time, I couldn't imagine a Pastor or any other church member , killing someone ( even if it's in self defense) in cold blood..
    Dead.. *throw a sheet over the dead body and resume Bible study*

    Tbh, it reminds me of David and Saul, when Saul was trying T harm David ...and one day he had the opportunity to kill him..but he didn't.

    I just wonder if you think it would be a lack of faith for the church to carry guns ?

    Also, a few more points...
    Wouldn't it look a bit odd, as a non violent organization to carry a weaon?

    Lastly, church folk tell us to have faith in this and that area... why wouldn't God protecting you be any different?
    (If it's not for the faith, it could be in your sleep, caused by a car accident..ect.. We all have our appointed time...IMO)

    I just wondered what you think of this;
    Alright let's get the discussion rolling..
  2. Difficult and I think a lot of the gun issues are cultural. I'm of a particular type of UK and anti gun person but I'll try not to cloud things that way in this thread.

    As far as I can remember, the only weapon I did once contemplate carrying was I knife. As it was at the time, walking lonely roads at night who knows? I kind of figured though that I could panic and stick it in an innocent person. I also kind of figured that I'd rather be killed than be a killer. But that's just me and in spite of problems in other areas of life, I think I've been kept safe from "bogeymen".
    Juk likes this.
  3. #3 boltardy, Jun 21, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2015
    Have fired guns btw. I've shot a Smith and Wesson 38 special, and a 45 semi automatic (make unknown - Colt???) and a 303. I think that was a Garand. Fired them in a disused quarry that became a range in N Wales. Cesarea?
  4. You asked our thoughts so here is mine. Shooting people in churches is not a new happening. Search the net and you will find names of Pastors that have been shot or shot at over the years.

    It is one thing to have guns in a church to protect people from a terrorist or unstable person. It is something else if that person doing the shooting is an enraged husband who has learned his wife is having an affair with that pastor. YES that does happen.

    The problem is that the person in the pew who is assigned to protect will not know who is who until he shoots the bad guy.

    IF he has stopped a mass murder spree.....wonderful!!!
    However if he kills a man who is bent on setteling the score with the man having an affair with his wife then......................
    Who knew????

    But to answer the question, is that a lack of faith, NO!
    Common sense!

    Jesus on several occasions told his disciples to carry a sword.
    KingJ and Juk say Amen and like this.
  5. Interesting Major and I think I've seen that sort of line before. Not that I agree with guns, the protection of others can be more of an issue than the protection of self.
    Major likes this.
  6. We have always had men in our church who conceal carry, and I personally always have a gun with me within legal parameters.

    It is not a lack of faith, that's like saying using a crosswalk on a highway is lack of faith. We still use the crosswalk because it is a safe means of travel. If Christians started walking into the highway saying "God will save me" we'd have a lot of dead/injured Christians.

    The gun is a means of self protection, even the apostles had swords. For me personally, I do not think I could kill somebody if they were going to take my life. But if they went to harm someone else, that's a scenario I do not want to have to go through.
    Major and Juk say Amen and like this.
  7. I appreciate everybody comments and opinions, its nice to see what everyone is thinking.
    Idk, I mean I understand it is commonsense as well natural to protect oneself and In the same way if youre child fell
    ill the first thing you'd do is take them to a doctor. (while praying in tandem, but as seen through experience of those who "tried to have faith" by just praying the illness away, believing God to intervene... and when a turn for the worst occurs they're slandered and reviled... < Not saying I support it, I believe God gave Doctors,sugeons, and nurses the desire and wisdom to help and adminster to those in need... so why not use what God gave us?>

    But I just wonder why , I mean I know this isn't an easy topic/subject, when it comes to certain situations people who mean well
    implore us to believe God will heal of this and that illness, do this and that,and they are right to encourage us:

    because Jesus is a miracle working God, and he wants us to believe in his promises....
    so if we have to believe for God to heal us from a deadly physical ailment like cancer...

    why can't we trust him with protectiing us from evil people?

    I remeber in the gospel, peter tried to protect Jesus, he told him to put away his sword after he slashed off the ear of a pharisee..
    saying those who live by the sword die by it...

    Now im not against self defense, as soon as I start driving.... Im investing in mace...
    it just baffles me how some tell us to believe God for certain things and not others..

    when his promises/miracles encompass every situation..

    just my thoughts : - )
    Mykuhl likes this.

  8. Yes but they didn't do any harm.... Jesus told peter to put his away..
  9. But Jesus also said to buy a sword in luke 22:36, Jesus told Peter to put it away because it was time for Jesus to be captured so in turn, scripture could be fulfilled. You can righteously kill a man in self defense, as is backed countless times in the old testament. Like I said, if somebody is going to harm another human, I will not hesitate to draw a gun. If I got on my knees and only prayed with no action, I would be useless.
    I do not trust that God will keep me safe indefinitely, because safety isn't promised. If that were the case, the apostles would never had been exiled, tortured or killed. We are promised persecution though, and that's something we need to remember.
    Major and Juk say Amen and like this.
  10. OK Ill try to take things another way. It's not difficult to be willing to die for a cause. Many of us would if we had the courage and were faced with it put our heads on the chopping block for Christ. At least in principle. The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak sort of thing?

    Dealing with day to day fears, problems and, sadly realities, is somehow more difficult????

    Just trying to pose questions here, not to give answers.
  11. My thoughts.
    I dont know any christians who carry guns, to church or anywhere else. I dont live in america, so i dont know, maybe your question is cultural specific.

    As for self defence, well,we meant to lay down our lives for others just as Jesus did. If there are any 'weapons' in church it would just be something like a knife to spread butter on the scones for morning tea.

    Our weapons of warfare are not carnal, but spiritual.
    Juk likes this.
  12. What is the general feeling in NZ about guns? I well remember back when I used to have such things. having a sporting hero in Richard Hadlee, one of the best all rounder cricketers ever. And another sport would remember Jonah Lomu. But (as I am with most countries of the world) am pretty ignorant about NZ.
  13. A pastor at a church I was attending once told me that he had no problems with members carrying.

    For myself, I have several small caliber firearms (3 handguns, 2 rifles) all small caliber stuff (22lr and 9 mm handguns, a 22lr rifle, and a 17hmr rifle). Virginia is an open carry state, meaning that if you have a clean record, you can go into a store to get a t-shirt, and come out a half hour (after a records check) and strap a pistol to your hip and walk around the local wally-world with a loaded gun. I have a concealed permit, but I do not commonly carry concealed or not.

    My firearms are for target shooting. I have some steel targets that I put up against a hill in the back of my home and love to shoot. They have nothing really to do with defense, although if someone tries to break into my home, I have no problems with using them. If I were to be carrying large sums of cash, I might keep a pistol visibly strapped to my hip. I could use the gun, but I would rather that the potential thugs would see the gun and change their minds.

    As far as concealed carry in church, if I felt that my family or congregation needed armed protection, and I felt that it fell to me, possibly because I am familiar with handling firearms, I would have to step up. I would rather that the evil men had time to repent, but not at the cost of the ones I protect.

    I don't think I would fire if it were only me that was being threatened. If I die, but my family is safe, I am content.
    Juk likes this.
  14. That does not address the question as to why Jesus instructed his disciples to start carrying a sword in the first place. One would have to consider that our Lord acknowledged that it might have to be used once the disciples were carrying money.
    Juk likes this.
  15. It is. I know a lot of churches that have members who legally carry concealed handguns during services - because of exactly what happened in SC.
    Major likes this.
  16. "He said to them, 'But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.'" (Luke 22:36)
  17. Nz feeling about guns...well. We dont carry them round everyday.
    I think people need to have a license but only hunters really have them for shooting pigs and deer. Mostly rifles.

    There was a big tragedy years ago when crazy gunman in aramoana shot dead heaps of people.
    Most tragic deaths are caused by cars...speeding and alcohol.

    If people do die by gunshot its usually they were out hunting and mistook their target for a deer or it was an accident.

    People usually get violent using other means...playing rugby for example. Or the odd riot. Or drinking too much beer.
  18. I agree completely!
  19. Amen!

    Without a doubt the Lord had self protection in mind when He said this. They were living in days that required a sword and we all need to recognize that if we do not resist evil today, all kinds of evil will come upon us.

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