Women in the church

[Euphemia]

Then if you count the church is the Bride you must then resolve your disagreement with the Lord .

I don't disagree with the Lord. I happen to see the true Bride in her splendor, and don't focus a critical eye on the local churches who are not doing it right. God calls us to encourage the brethren and not to tear them down. I make sure I am right with the Lord and my energies are to help support and lead the Body.

Casting one's eye around at others and speaking ill of the Bride doesn't serve the Kingdom. It serves the enemy.

For the church is to be the salt of the earth.

Not really. The Church IS the salt of the earth and IS the light of the world.

The church needs a revival of which I am a part.

No, the Church doesn't, but many churches do.

This is a discourse but i fear it is but one way .

Yep.

 

[Euphemia]

This is talking about wives, not all women. Wives ought to be silent, as to not excel in authority over the man that they are in submission to. Women are free to speak if they are single, but not wives. If a wife wishes to say something, should ought to say it to her husband, and then her husband speak as the one in authority among them two.

Single women are free to speak out in the meeting? Wow! That's a new one!

 

[geralduk]

I don't disagree with the Lord. I happen to see the true Bride in her splendor, and don't focus a critical eye on the local churches who are not doing it right. God calls us to encourage the brethren and not to tear them down. I make sure I am right with the Lord and my energies are to help support and lead the Body.

Casting one's eye around at others and speaking ill of the Bride doesn't serve the Kingdom. It serves the enemy.



Not really. The Church IS the salt of the earth and IS the light of the world.



No, the Church doesn't, but many churches do.



Yep.

Ignoring any scriptures to the contrary does not do any one any good.
Who says I speak ill of the bride?
I say the church is not ready and if scripture says she has got herself ready then clearly when was she not ready?
and if the lord said to the disciples "be ye also ready" ther eis the implication you can be not ready .
I with the Lord say the church needs to repent .
I also say with the Lord that "be hold I stand at the door and knock " There is only ONE church .
and whatever local church you or I belong to there is but oen church and therefore one door .
If you consider that after the resurection no door was any barrier to the Lord entering a room. You have to or should consider why he feels the need to knock!?
Then as the most of the church says he is inside .Given that he says he is outside .The knocking ojn the door is and must be a call to the whole church to repent!
To who then is the promise made?
To them that have ears to hear and open the door ;to THEM will I and the father sup with . or have close fellowship with in other words.
Before Gidion did anything he first cast down the idols in his fathers house .
The only thing Im casting down or rejecting is the vain imaginations of a church that says "I am rich increased with goods and in need of nothing " Yet the Lord says "Ye are wretched poor and blind and in need of eye salve"
In comparison what I have said was and is quite mild.
Ill ask again then if not to you but to al who read but dont write.,
Was the laodocian church ready?
and was the Spirit that was and IS speakign to the churches then at fault to say what He did?

Ive said enough on the matter .

in Christ
gerald

 

[Euphemia]

Yes of course, the law of submission is in relation to wives, not women. But once a woman comes under submission as a wife, then she ought to remain silent to respect the authority of her own husband, and he should be the one that speaks on behalf of them both.

Sorry, but that is just not what Paul was saying to the church. Women had been causing a commotion by speaking out in meeting---women---single and married. He was establishing proper etiquette in the new-found Christian churches.

Note: all people are to remain quiet when someone is speaking or teaching. Men already knew how to learn in silence. Women, not so much at that time.


.

 

[Euphemia]

Also, if you notice the context of both passages, the women in those passages are presumed to have husbands, or be child bearing, both instances conveying women that are married. Yet if a woman remains single, she can be used by God just as any man of God. Marriage is what binds the woman to come under submission.

This is not a proper assessment. We are ALL called to submit to one another.

Yet even in the resurrection, there won't be any difference between men and women, because we will be like angels, not given into marriages, so it would make sense that not being bound by marriage would make a women equal as a man in the eyes of God if she remain single.

There is no difference NOW in the eyes of God. Man and woman are equal partners in the Kingdom, NOW.


.

 

[Euphemia]

Ignoring any scriptures to the contrary does not do any one any good.
Who says I speak ill of the bride?
I say the church is not ready

Jesus could come at any moment, and He will take the Bride that is ready and waiting.


.

 

[Euphemia]

It seems to me like you're trying to say in a subtle way that wives can indeed speak. Am I correct?

No one---not even men---can speak out of turn in the meeting of the assembly. That is what Paul was iterating.

.

 

[Euphemia]

Let me rephrase this question, because you are being sneaky, and I am not easily fooled by cunning words. If it were a wive's turn to speak, can she speak? Yes or no.

I am not sneaky, but plain-speaking.

Anyone can speak as leadership calls upon him or her to do so.

 

[Euphemia]

Alright, so you are deviating from the written command of the apostles. Not good.

There is no deviation---just the good understanding of Paul. All good.

 

[KingJ]

We, as brothers and sisters in Christ have been elevated to before-the-fall status, where Adam and Eve, before their sin worked shoulder-to-shoulder, equally bearing the load..

What load did they bear?

 

[KingJ]

This is not a proper assessment. We are ALL called to submit to one another..

Submitting to one another has absolutely nothing to do with whom teaches us from the pulpit.

That God used a woman here and there is also not a valid argument. God used a donkey to speak His word Num 22:28. Yet we don't see donkeys teaching from the pulpit.

 

[Complete]

Hi there,

God made woman to be a helpmeet to man. They work together to achieve the goals that they share.
However, 'The man is the head of the woman', (1 Corinthians 11:13). That is God's order of things, for sound reasons, given in Scripture. (eg., 1 Tim. 2:14; 1 Peter 3:7).

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Euphemia]

What load did they bear?

We all bear the load of leadership in the world and doing the will of God for the fulfillment of His will in the world...The Great Commission. Adam and Eve worked together, shoulder-to-shoulder taking care of Creation.

 

[Euphemia]

Submitting to one another has absolutely nothing to do with whom teaches us from the pulpit.

Correct!

That God used a woman here and there is also not a valid argument. God used a donkey to speak His word Num 22:28. Yet we don't see donkeys teaching from the pulpit.

Nice metaphor. We see many godly, anointed women preaching from the pulpit, doing exactly what God has called them to do. Thank God for godly people in churches who know that freedom in Christ, and do not hinder God's called.

 

[Euphemia]

Hi there,

God made woman to be a helpmeet to man. They work together to achieve the goals that they share.
However, 'The man is the head of the woman', (1 Corinthians 11:13). That is God's order of things, for sound reasons, given in Scripture. (eg., 1 Tim. 2:14; 1 Peter 3:7).

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Your reference is an error. 1 Corinthians 11:3 is the one you mean, and that is talking about HUSBANDS. Beside, the word "head", if you follow it all the way through the first cannot mean head in your sense, but "kepha" also means "source" or "origin", and that is the appropriate meaning here, as in the head of a mighty river, or the source of that river. Using the typical English meaning distorts the entire verse.

.

 

[geralduk]

Hi there,

God made woman to be a helpmeet to man. They work together to achieve the goals that they share.
However, 'The man is the head of the woman', (1 Corinthians 11:13). That is God's order of things, for sound reasons, given in Scripture. (eg., 1 Tim. 2:14; 1 Peter 3:7).

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Perhaps considering the right and left hand might help.
For if you are right handed the left is a help meet for it .
You cna indeed function with only one hand but ideally you should have both.
The left hand is the 'weaker' .Yet strangely when you saw a piece of wood . You use the strength of the left hand to hold the wood while the right has the 'lighter' duty of using the saw.
'Strength ' and weaker then has in scripture far more better meanings than many a man supposes.
"For the battle is not to the strong..........."
and" it pleases God to choose the weak.........."

Paul in the scriptures every one is reffering to but no one seems to actually read ;accept those bits that justify men in their often "lording " over women . Speaks of yes that Man was created first and women were created out of the man. But he also says that all men save the first are born of women or are of women.
Perhaps by the grace of God IF the people of God were more willing to actually start where Paul starts with his 'argument ' and follow his argument rather jump to conclusions and go to the end of it ,not only would the people of God get a perfect understanding of the matter according to the mind of GOD but this foolish strife and vain debate might cease with many .Whether they be men or women.

in Christ
gerald

 

[KingJ]

Correct!

You are twisting what I am saying. Using the verse 'submit one to another' is strecthing on your part.

Nice metaphor.

The donkey is not a metaphor. It is an example.

We see many godly, anointed women preaching from the pulpit, doing exactly what God has called them to do. Thank God for godly people in churches who know that freedom in Christ, and do not hinder God's called

You are free from sin. Not from being a weaker sex. There is ocean of difference between weaker and inferior.

That woman teach is a non issue to what scripture says.

 

[Euphemia]

You are twisting what I am saying. Using the verse 'submit one to another' is strecthing on your part.

As a member of the Body of Christ, we are to submit to one another---in love. How is that twisting? Stretching?

The donkey is not a metaphor. It is an example.

To me, it is a very bad metaphor for women of God being used by God on your part.

You are free from sin. Not from being a woman.

I am a woman freed in Christ to fulfill my calling to preach the gospel to every creature.

.

 

[KingJ]

As a member of the Body of Christ, we are to submit to one another---in love. How is that twisting? Stretching?

You are trying to insinuate that because a man can be corrected by woman, he can also be taught from the pulpit by one. The two are oceans apart. IE stretching.

To me, it is a very bad metaphor for women of God being used by God on your part.

I am not comparing a woman to a donkey. I am comparing your justification for a woman preaching to a donkey preaching.

I am a woman freed in Christ to fulfill my calling to preach the gospel to every creature.

I do not want to hinder you at all and nor should anyone. This however is a completely separate subject to teaching the body of Christ from the pulpit.

 

[KingJ]

Adam and Eve worked together, shoulder-to-shoulder taking care of Creation.

How do you know they worked together as eqauls? Gen 2:20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals. But for Adam no suitable helper was found.