Women in the church

[geralduk]

It should be understood that no man or indeed a woman can understand the scriptures as they should be understood save by the Holy Ghost .
It is also worth ruminating on the fact that just because men have been given that authority in the church then as now ;how is it then that almost from the word go or rather from the moment that the church "LEFT" its first love the door was opened to the errors/ "works" of the Nicolaitans which in turn led to the "doctrine" of the Nicolaitans and all the errors that followed.Till we came to the Reformation when after 400 years the light dawned again and the first seedling of truth was revealed "the just shall live by faith"
But each truth so held was then held to be all truth and the next unfolding of truth was in the main rejected by the last and another had to take up the torch . From Lutheran to Calvin to Baptist to Quaker to Methodist ,to Evengelical , to Salvationists, to Pentecostal.
The church is a prodigal church returning to the Fathers house .
Men do not have by some inaniable right the means of infallibility .Though some foolishly claim they are or act as if they are .
So as the devil likes to polarise the church into one extreme camp or the other we should be aware of that age old tactic.
and keep all things in balance.
and not take one truth out of context as make it what it is not.
Given that much of the church does not even believe the book of Genesis to start with ,mixing truth with error to please the world.
That Paul references the creation of Adam and the creation of Eve as the foundational thought of his thinking in the matter as too the deception of Eve and not of Adam. Given the above and the lack of any real understanding of it .One would suggest that instead of vying for power and 'position'as politicians often do it would be more profitable to understand more the foundations before we contemplated the building of his argument.
For if we hold to the error that Gods account of the creation of all things and of man is but a metaphor or story etc etc then we have no hope of understanding what is built upon it.

in Christ
gerald

 

[Grant Melville]

Women who prophesy in the assembly are also preaching.Preaching under the power of the Holy Spirit often includes the prophetic rendering of scripture, or rhema to the listener. Holy Spirit is not tied down by any rules of anointing concerning the gender of those He desires to anoint.

You are believing and attempting to teach something that has been thwarted for centuries.

I'm not aware of a scripture which says that women prophesy in the assembly, or that women are to preach.

Phoebe was a deacon, and in today's vernacular, a pastor.

We have to distinguish between offices and gifts - the role of a deacon is an office, as is that of an elder. Pastor or shepherd is a spiritual gift, and both deacon and pastor (or minister and shepherd) are mentioned in the scriptures, distinct from one another.

 

[Grant Melville]

It should be understood that no man or indeed a woman can understand the scriptures as they should be understood save by the Holy Ghost .
It is also worth ruminating on the fact that just because men have been given that authority in the church then as now ;how is it then that almost from the word go or rather from the moment that the church "LEFT" its first love the door was opened to the errors/ "works" of the Nicolaitans which in turn led to the "doctrine" of the Nicolaitans and all the errors that followed.Till we came to the Reformation when after 400 years the light dawned again and the first seedling of truth was revealed "the just shall live by faith"
But each truth so held was then held to be all truth and the next unfolding of truth was in the main rejected by the last and another had to take up the torch . From Lutheran to Calvin to Baptist to Quaker to Methodist ,to Evengelical , to Salvationists, to Pentecostal.
The church is a prodigal church returning to the Fathers house .
Men do not have by some inaniable right the means of infallibility .Though some foolishly claim they are or act as if they are .
So as the devil likes to polarise the church into one extreme camp or the other we should be aware of that age old tactic.
and keep all things in balance.
and not take one truth out of context as make it what it is not.
Given that much of the church does not even believe the book of Genesis to start with ,mixing truth with error to please the world.
That Paul references the creation of Adam and the creation of Eve as the foundational thought of his thinking in the matter as too the deception of Eve and not of Adam. Given the above and the lack of any real understanding of it .One would suggest that instead of vying for power and 'position'as politicians often do it would be more profitable to understand more the foundations before we contemplated the building of his argument.
For if we hold to the error that Gods account of the creation of all things and of man is but a metaphor or story etc etc then we have no hope of understanding what is built upon it.

in Christ
gerald

Well said, brother. That's a needed word.

 

[Grant Melville]

Where do people "prophesy"? In a Church (assembly) setting? Who is going to prophecy in these last days? Son's and daughters. Men, and women as God is no respecter of gender, as in Christ there is no male, or female!! (Gal 3:28) Many times if not most of the time preaching or teaching is prophesying.

Act 2:17.. "'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;
Act 2:18.. even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.

I don't believe that prophesy is restricted to the assembly - surely visions and dreams aren't limited to the gatherings together?

Not only did Anna (a women) prophecy in the temple every day, she also preached about the coming messiah to all those who were waiting redemption every hour!!!

Luke 2:36.. And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years, having lived with her husband seven years from when she was a virgin,
Luke 2:37.. and then as a widow until she was eighty-four. She did not depart from the temple, worshiping with fasting and prayer night and day.
Luke 2:38.. And coming up at that very hour she began to give thanks to God and to speak of him to all who were waiting for the redemption of Jerusalem.

The temple is not the assembly, and we can't take the principles of a previous dispensation and apply them to our own times. We have detailed instructions as to the order of the assembly, which are necessarily very different from the physical ordering of the temple.

 

[geralduk]

Doesn't the scripture speak for itself here? It doesn't speak about wives, but women. It is a shame for women in general to speak in the church, not married women. And why should unmarried women be permitted to speak, and married women be forbidden?

It should be noted that in , when Peter stands up in the midst of the brethren, he addresses them as "Men, brethren". That's the literal translation. However, I wouldn't insist on their being no women there on the strength of that. I would, however, suggest that the events of Pentecost were unique and exceptional. It was a great demonstration of the Spirit's power. Later, by Paul, there's an unfolding of the truth of the assembly, and in his ministry we have the thought of the Headship of Christ. Paul writes to Timothy, "in order that thou mayest know how one ought to conduct oneself in God's house" (). There were matters of order which are set out in Paul's ministry.

As for deaconesses, there's no scriptural record that they spoke in the assembly, or were required to do so. Deacons are ministers, not pastors or teachers.

Phoebe was a deacon, and in today's vernacular, a pastor.

People who lead are servant-leaders. Deacons are servant-leaders. Pastors are servant-leaders, and Phoebe was a servant-leader in the church at Cenchrae.

.

Romans 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:
G1249 diakonos Probably from διάκω diakō (obsolete, to run on errands; compare G1377); an attendant,
that is, (generally) a waiter (at table or in other menial duties);
References in translation to church offices - bishop, deacon, minister arise out of cultural history in that the translators were participants in
Catholic and Anglican churches where such titles were used.
1Peter 2:25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.
The word Bishop is definitely not in the original Greek, but rather G1985 episkopos is a superintendent or overseer -
bishop, deacon and other church office titles are cultural references to Christian Roman tradition already some 1500 years old.

There is much pretentious teaching in the church that either directly or indirectly says all believers are leaders .
Some say we are leaders of the world . Neither is true.
Christ is the HEAD and the ruler of the body.
The GOVERNMENT is on his shoulders.
not on his feet .
Yet if i was but his little toe as the devil is under HIS feet as I am in Christ then I have dominion over the devil in Christ .(NEVER outside of Christ)
Those men of God who are called of God and come from God and are called to minister to the church for its perfection as also in its understanding . Are not all the body.
That each joint of the body supplieth that which each joint can and should or does . is clearly something else .
The church is NOT the leader of the world .That is the devil . "Who worketh in the sons of disobedience "
The church is supposed to be the Lords WITNESS both to his death and ressurection.
She is to be the LIGHT of the world and "to rule the night "
as the moon does and who is seated with the sun in heavenly places and with a right relationship or 'attitude' to the sun can if she is in a right 'attitude' to the world bears witness to the world that sits in darkness that the sun still shines and there is coming a perfect day.
if her attitude to the world is wrong ie in the world and of it then she has no light and does not bear witness of the Lord.
We are in the world but NOT of it . We are not here to rule the world or lead it .
But we are here to "open the eyes of the blind , let the oppressed free and break the bonds of wickedness"
The devil tempted the Lord with the kingdoms of this world to rule over if only he would worship Satan.
It was the devils to give . But it was not the Lords THEN to have .
For he knew that the kingdoms of this world would become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ AFTER the cross . Not before it.
and the glory of this world is passing away .
He rebuked the devil and told him to get behind him for thou shalt only worship God .

it is man that has made a 'bishop' not what the scriptures make of it by first brinign in the WORKS of the nicolaitans and then the works becoming the "doctrines" of the Nicolaitans .
The same also of a deacons.
The qualification of a deacon was a man "full of faith and wisdom"! See Stephens qualification to wait at table.
The qualification of a 'bishop ' is also given.
and they that forbid men to marry should read it .

Not only then do we raise men up who are not full of faith and wisdom but raise men up who often are not saved at all!
A pastor is a shepherd of one local flock .
He is supposed to LEAD them in the paths of righteousness .
He cannot lead where he has not gone .Nor can he feed the flock with that which he has not partaken of himself FIRST.
For as the Lord who is THE shepherd led him he then leads the flock given to his charge .
For the good shepherd of our souls said "as the father taught me so I teach "
"So as the father sent me so send I you"

Todays bishops of another 'priesthood' have no qualification from God .
For there are only two orders of priesthood acceptable to God .
After the flesh , You MUST be of the tribe of Levi and minister in the tabernacle made with hands .
After the Spirit is of the order of Malchesidech and minister in the tabernacle made not with hands .
The foolish argumenst about women priests and bishops is a none starter ,false and a waste of any child of Gods valuable time.

in Christ
gerald

 

[geralduk]

The day of Pentecost while being the FIRST was unique ,cannot be assumed to be an once only event .
For the command of the Lord to them was NOT to go out into all the world untill they be endued from one high.
For the arm of flesh cannot do the work of God . For it will fail.
"The Lord Himself said Of mine own self I can do nothing .But what i see the Father doign that do I "
and in another place" the words that I speak are not my own words but the Father who is IN me He doeth the WORK"
No man can do the work of God then unless Christ be IN Him.
For as the Father was in the Son being THE Son. So the Son is in all who are His being "now the sons of God"
For in as much as He was made conformable to the Father .So then are we made conformable to the Son.
For when the Holy Spirit shall come he shall be UPON you and (the new thing) shall be IN you"
That applies and must to all believers both men and women .
For as a new BORNbabe has life .It needs to be filled with the breath of life to LIVE that life .
So too then a new BORNagain child of God has life .But needs must also be filled with the Spirit of God to live that life .
and while a new BORN child of God has from that moment authority over the devil he needs to be filled with the Spirit of God to excercise that authority and wield it .
For remember the sword of the whole armour of God is the SPOKEN word of God.
and no word of man has power unless his words are endued with his breath .So too then no Word of God is quick and powerful unless it is quickened or endued with the Holy Spirit of God.

The day of pentecost was unique as the birth of the church .it was unique for it was the first time people did not have the Holy Spirit just UPON them (as in the Old testament) but because now of the shed blood and applied the Holy Spirit could now fill the new bottles of men CONVERTED .
But as they were filled again at other times after the day of Pentecost both the need to be filled and to eb continually filled was and still is a vital nesecity of all true believers be they men or women .

in Christ
gerald

 

[geralduk]

I'm not aware of a scripture which says that women prophesy in the assembly, or that women are to preach.


We have to distinguish between offices and gifts - the role of a deacon is an office, as is that of an elder. Pastor or shepherd is a spiritual gift, and both deacon and pastor (or minister and shepherd) are mentioned in the scriptures, distinct from one another.

I would also add that the assertion that prophesying is the same as preaching is simply that when it is not substantiated by any biblical argument.

in Christ
gerald

 

[CCW95A]

I don't believe that prophesy is restricted to the assembly - surely visions and dreams aren't limited to the gatherings together?


The temple is not the assembly, and we can't take the principles of a previous dispensation and apply them to our own times. We have detailed instructions as to the order of the assembly, which are necessarily very different from the physical ordering of the temple.

I had always thought Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Has now God changed in how he works? Yes he has from only using certain people, to using all people who belong to him. Have we gone from God using men, and women the same to now restricting it to only men? I don't think so. Did people ever assemble in the temple or was it restricted to just one person at a time?
The New Testament brings freedom not restriction, as it is based on better promises than the old Testament.

 

[Waggles]

Phoebe was a deacon, and in today's vernacular, a pastor.

1Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that rules well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

 

[Grant Melville]

I had always thought Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Has now God changed in how he works? Yes he has from only using certain people, to using all people who belong to him. Have we gone from God using men, and women the same to now restricting it to only men? I don't think so. Did people ever assemble in the temple or was it restricted to just one person at a time?
The New Testament brings freedom not restriction, as it is based on better promises than the old Testament.

Yes, it's true that Jesus is ever the same, and the purposes of God don't change, and also that we've been brought into liberty before God. But I think we have to recognise that we have to do with spiritual things. The world, and the natural man (as 1 Corinthians 2 tells us) cannot discern or know these things. The world would look at a gathering where women don't speak and would come to the conclusion that women don't contribute. We know otherwise, don't we? We discern the spiritual. The sisters bring great wealth to the gatherings of the saints. If the Holy Spirit is free amongst the saints as gathered, He is able to bring into vocal expression by a brother what a sister has brought. That's my experience, at least. When the saints come together, they're one, they're a unified company. Whatever has been treasured up in the hearts of those present will come into expression for the edification of the assembly: the Spirit will see to it. There is no restriction where the Spirit of God is free, and it's impossible that there should be restriction. There's no limitation on divine things, unlike natural things. If I look at God's ordering with the natural mind, I'm bound to totally misunderstand it. But discerning it spiritually, I'm led to see that one of the precious features of Christianity is that it is limitless, and it can't be bound. Men tried to lead the Lord Jesus when He was here - they bound Him, they nailed Him to the cross, they tried to seal Him in the grave. Yet He was never led, He went that way purposefully, to the cross and the grave, and out of the grave. Perhaps I'm not making myself clear, but what I want to say is that where the Lord is given the first place, everything finds its place, and no-one is out of place. All is of Him and by Him and through Him, and led by Him. And it's simply beautiful.

With all due respect to each and every one of the beloved brethren who believe sincerely in the rightness of women speaking in the assembly, I have to say that that is natural thinking. It's an idea which seems logical and just to the natural mind, but what about our spiritual senses? Are we exercising them in this matter, as in others? We have the plain teaching of scripture, going back, as our brother @geralduk has helpfully set out, to the fundamentals, to the first book of the Bible, Genesis, the seed-plot of all God's purposes.

 

[Euphemia]

I'm not aware of a scripture which says that women prophesy in the assembly, or that women are to preach.


We have to distinguish between offices and gifts - the role of a deacon is an office, as is that of an elder. Pastor or shepherd is a spiritual gift, and both deacon and pastor (or minister and shepherd) are mentioned in the scriptures, distinct from one another.

Paul encouraged women to prophesy. It happened in the assembly.

We don't have to always distinguish between role and office, as all of us need to be pastoring in some way, discipling people to come to Christ, caring and succoring people in the Body and out. Many people who have the office of pastor do not have the gift of pastor and vice versa. I have had the role of a lay pastor in the church, but since I ceased in that capacity, I remain a pastor in life, as called by God---as all are truly called to be. Maybe I have that gift, but every believer needs to be pastoring people, in the true meaning of the word.

Phoebe would have been a minister in the local church and her office was deacon---no different than her male counterparts.


When Paul spoke of Phoebe as a helper of many as well as himself, he used the word, "prostatis", meaning "helper". In this sense, the word, "prostatis" means helping in the manner of one with authority, a master, and a leader. This word was used by the historian, Josephus, in describing Caesar, one of supreme authority. A leader is a helper, and in this sense, it denotes one who helps from a place of authority and strength, not one who helps a strong person out of a place of lesser strength.




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[CCW95A]

Yes, it's true that Jesus is ever the same, and the purposes of God don't change, and also that we've been brought into liberty before God. But I think we have to recognise that we have to do with spiritual things. The world, and the natural man (as 1 Corinthians 2 tells us) cannot discern or know these things. The world would look at a gathering where women don't speak and would come to the conclusion that women don't contribute. We know otherwise, don't we? We discern the spiritual. The sisters bring great wealth to the gatherings of the saints. If the Holy Spirit is free amongst the saints as gathered, He is able to bring into vocal expression by a brother what a sister has brought. That's my experience, at least. When the saints come together, they're one, they're a unified company. Whatever has been treasured up in the hearts of those present will come into expression for the edification of the assembly: the Spirit will see to it. There is no restriction where the Spirit of God is free, and it's impossible that there should be restriction. There's no limitation on divine things, unlike natural things. If I look at God's ordering with the natural mind, I'm bound to totally misunderstand it. But discerning it spiritually, I'm led to see that one of the precious features of Christianity is that it is limitless, and it can't be bound. Men tried to lead the Lord Jesus when He was here - they bound Him, they nailed Him to the cross, they tried to seal Him in the grave. Yet He was never led, He went that way purposefully, to the cross and the grave, and out of the grave. Perhaps I'm not making myself clear, but what I want to say is that where the Lord is given the first place, everything finds its place, and no-one is out of place. All is of Him and by Him and through Him, and led by Him. And it's simply beautiful.

With all due respect to each and every one of the beloved brethren who believe sincerely in the rightness of women speaking in the assembly, I have to say that that is natural thinking. It's an idea which seems logical and just to the natural mind, but what about our spiritual senses? Are we exercising them in this matter, as it others? We have the plain teaching of scripture, going back, as our brother @geralduk has helpfully set out, to the fundamentals, to the first book of the Bible, Genesis, the seed-plot of all God's purposes.

What I can not understand is that those who come against "women" speaking or teaching in the Church have no problems with "women" teaching Sunday school to the young kids while the main Church is being taught by a man pastor/teacher. They think that there is a difference between Sunday school, and the main Church. There is no difference what so ever!! Nether teaching Sunday school in some back building is no different then teaching it in the main Church.
You only need two people to have an assembly, and there is no age limit to that or to the place it is being done.
Now that is what I call hypocritical.

 

[Grant Melville]

Paul encouraged women to prophesy. It happened in the assembly.

We don't have to always distinguish between role and office, as all of us need to be pastoring in some way, discipling people to come to Christ, caring and succoring people in the Body and out. Many people who have the office of pastor do not have the gift of pastor and vice versa. I have had the role of a lay pastor in the church, but since I ceased in that capacity, I remain a pastor in life, as called by God---as all are truly called to be. Maybe I have that gift, but every believer needs to be pastoring people, in the true meaning of the word.

Phoebe would have been a minister in the local church and her office was deacon---no different than her male counterparts.


When Paul spoke of Phoebe as a helper of many as well as himself, he used the word, "prostatis", meaning "helper". In this sense, the word, "prostatis" means helping in the manner of one with authority, a master, and a leader. This word was used by the historian, Josephus, in describing Caesar, one of supreme authority. A leader is a helper, and in this sense, it denotes one who helps from a place of authority and strength, not one who helps a strong person out of a place of lesser strength.




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Could you give us an example from scripture of Paul encouraging women to prophesy in the assembly, please?

I think we do need to distinguish between gifts and offices, because scripture does make the distinction. It's something we need to be clear about. I don't want to be overly critical here either, but we have to have clarity on these matters - pastoral care is for the flock, the sheep - believers. Evangelism isn't pastoral care, and the gift of an evangelist is different from that of a shepherd, or pastor.

A person attempting to fill out an office which they haven't been furnished for by God is surely rather disorderly, isn't it? It's bound to lead to harm to the flock, if a person without the spiritual gift of a pastor attempts to be a pastor. Sadly, that's what happens in the systems of men which depend on man's organisation and man's ordination. It comes about, partly, because of confusion of office and gift.

In Ephesians 4:11 we have spiritual gifts: apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds (or pastors) and teachers. In numerous places, we have elders mentioned, which would be an office. And there are also ministers, or deacons, which would also be an office. Phoebe was certainly a minister, but it's never said of her that she had the gift of a pastor or a teacher, and that she exercised it in the assembly. When the thought of deacons is introduced in scripture, it's in connection with the daily ministrations and serving tables.

As for the last paragraph... well. If we dig into the meanings of words, we can put any construction we like on them, to suit our needs. I feel that that use of the word is really rather a stretch. As far as I'm concerned, a minister ministers and a helper helps. These are valuable and vital services, and they'll be recognised and valued of the Lord. There's nothing diminutive about being a helper. I would be very glad to know that I was regarded as a helper of the people of God, one who takes up Nethinim service. What the world might see as demeaning, we know to be exalted. Shouldn't it be my desire to be a servant of others, because my Master took on a servant's form? Precious features of Christ shine out in those who serve the brethren in love and humility.

 

[geralduk]

I fear that no advice as to ALL scripture relating to the subject should be studied .
There is not even any discussion on the very foundation of the subject that Paul clearly spoke of.

How then does any one hope to truly understand what the truth is if you will not start with the foundational truth of it?

in Christ
gerald

 

[CCW95A]

1Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that rules well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
1Ti 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

The problem here is the word, "man", or "his" is not gender specific in its translation. The reason "husband" is even mentioned is because it would not be good to have a "bishop" with multiple wives. The first verse says.....

1Ti 3:1.. This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

The word, "if any man" means, "if anyone, or someone, or whosoever" desires the office of a deacon.......
It could not possibly mean that the "Bishop" must be married in order to be a bishop. It was not permissible for a "women" to divorce her husband, but it was very easy for a man to divorce his wife. This is why it does not mention the women must be the wife of one husband anywhere in scripture. The women would be one of the whosoever, or someone, or if anyone who desires this office.

 

[Grant Melville]

What I can not understand is that those who come against "women" speaking or teaching in the Church have no problems with "women" teaching Sunday school to the young kids while the main Church is being taught by a man pastor/teacher. They think that there is a difference between Sunday school, and the main Church. There is no difference what so ever!! Nether teaching Sunday school in some back building is no different then teaching it in the main Church.
You only need two people to have an assembly, and there is no age limit to that or to the place it is being done.
Now that is what I call hypocritical.

I absolutely agree that that creates a difficulty. Departure from the solid ground of scripture always does, and the idea of 'Sunday school' for children isn't found in scripture. Children should be in the assembly, surrounded by the distinctive atmosphere that there is in a gathering of the saints. There is one assembly, not two - not one for adults and one for children. When Pharaoh asked Moses who would go out of Egypt to hold the feast of Jehovah, he replied, "We will go with our young and with our old, with our sons and with our daughters; with our flocks and with our herds will we go; for we have a feast of Jehovah." (Exodus 10:9). None were to be left behind - the whole of the people of God were to be brought together if there was to be a feast of Jehovah. I would regard the children of the households of the saints as being the special care of the Lord and the saints, and we would want to protect them and hold them for Him. Children should learn in the household, and as they grow they'll understand more and more of what's taught in the assembly, and - we would pray - come to know the Saviour for themselves.

One of the many things that creates confusion and difficulty these days is just what you point out - the Church (or, 'assembly') being regarded as a building, rather than the saints themselves. Where two or three are gathered to the Name of the Lord, there is the assembly. The truth of the assembly is essentially very simple. Man's systems and organisations make everything complicated, and lead to all sorts of difficulties.

 

[Grant Melville]

I fear that no advice as to ALL scripture relating to the subject should be studied .
There is not even any discussion on the very foundation of the subject that Paul clearly spoke of.

How then does any one hope to truly understand what the truth is if you will not start with the foundational truth of it?

in Christ
gerald

Amen. I often feel that, and it's humbling. I feel for myself that I'm often too impatient, and I don't take the time look into the matter and go right back to the fundamentals. The point of recovery is the point of departure, would you say? We have to get back to the point where we went astray from the truth in order to be recovered to it.

Could you help us more on the subject of the foundational truth which Genesis presents which bears on this ?

 

[Euphemia]

Paul endorses the idea of women praying and prophesying publicly.

1 Corinthians 11:5
But a woman dishonors her head if she prays or prophesies without a covering on her head,


Paul was was more than willing to let trained, Bible-believing women teach--since he commends such female ministers as Phoebe, Junia, Priscilla, Tryphena and Tryphosa . Males sat under them.

There is no blanket rule that restricts women from preaching, praying, teaching or prophesying. In fact, Paul recommends women to do so in 1 Corinthians 14, encouraging all believers to prophesy.


.

 

[CCW95A]

Could you help us more on the subject of the foundational truth which Genesis presents which bears on this ?

Gen 3:16.. Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Notice it did not say, that "man" shall rule over "women". God said your "husband" shall rule over you " wife". No where in the Bible does it say man rules over women. No man rules over any women or all women, it is only the husband who rules over his wife.

 

[Euphemia]

I fear that no advice as to ALL scripture relating to the subject should be studied .
There is not even any discussion on the very foundation of the subject that Paul clearly spoke of.

How then does any one hope to truly understand what the truth is if you will not start with the foundational truth of it?

in Christ
gerald

We have all the hope available to us to be able to understand fully these matters because we have the living Holy Spirit living in us interpreting the scriptures to us, when we are open to His lead.

James 1:5 comes to mind at this point:
If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking.