Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by ATP, Dec 23, 2015.
Twelve pages all... why not agree to disagree and move on?
Let's look at the questions, this may be a good exercise for all of us to ponder.
Question: when the Spirit is guiding you to Truth, are you always pleased with the answers? Possible answers: "Yes, since I have the Spirit of God inside of me and in control, all of His leading pleases me." Or: "No, on a few occasions my fleshy desires were convicted by the leading of the Spirit. I was shown my error and I repented."
How often are you displeased with the results? Are you ever upset with the leading? Kinda the same question. Possible answers: "I am never displeased nor upset by the Spirit's leading. I am a child of God and, therefore, I always desire and agree with what the Spirit has shown me." Or: "There have been times when I needed to be corrected on an issue because I only had part of the Truth, or my own opinion or the way I was brought up in the Church clouded my understanding."
Or do we take these unwanted feelings as a sign that they must be ungodly or man's teaching? This question addresses what we do or how we react to the presentation of opposing views or undiscovered knowledge presented by either the Spirit directly in our studies or by the Spirit through our interactions with other believers. Possible answers could be: "The Spirit is in me and controls my thinking. He will show me all Truth as Truth, and all deceit as deceit. If any teaching grieves me, it is because it grieves the Holy Spirit inside of me and therefore is ungodly and man's teaching." Or: "I try to take any teaching which has been shown to me in the Word of God, whether thru my own studies or by another believer, as something to consider and measure against all scripture I can find which relates to the teaching or issue. I have learned that my own understanding has jaded and limited my ability to know all Truth, for I must rely on God."
The litmus test is agreement with the Word. Not what may offend our sensibilities. This statement is what I believe must be the tie breaker. For the Spirit is in all believers, and as such, any differences in interpretation must be from our own opinions. Therefore, our carnal nature wars with the Spirit and we must ALL be aware of this and not insist on putting what we have been shown, or led to believe, as on par (equally authoritative) with the Word of God. If someone disagrees with you and is using scripture to support it, then you should have the scripture to back you up. After all, that is what the Spirit used to lead you to the Truth as you know it, right? Share this scripture with others so they may learn also.
Thanks. I see you thoroughly read my answers.
Yes I did. I am thinking you are in the first answer camp.
Question: so where shall these women (daughters and handmaidens; that the prophet Joel and Peter spoke of in Acts 2), prophesy?
Lol! In the street?
Yes, exactly. What pew did Jesus sit down and get comfortable for 60 yrs? Not one. As scripture clearly state's go ye into all the world.
What I give you in darkness, speak ye in light; what ye hear in your ear, preach from the rooftops. Amen
Israel had two Queens and a female Judge. Paul praises Timothy's mother and grandmother. I believe the only office restricted is the pastorship and only because Paul said they need to be the husband of one wife. I don't see a restriction on anything else. Besides, all laws/rules have an exception! David was supposed to die for murdering Uriah, but didn't. The letter kills, the spirit gives life. Let's move on.
Women as lead pastors I do not see, but partnerships where both are pastors with the husband as lead pastor is a healthy thing. In our church, for instance, we now have, after some recent staff changes, two couples who pastor (one couple as lead pastors, the husband over all), and two females in pastoring roles. Every cell group has leaders who are actually lay pastors, and we have about 50 of them, both male and female, with men leading men's cells and women leading women's cells---and this includes the youth, among whom God has produced qualified leaders.
Well, as usual we can go back and forth on this and in the end we will still be in disagreement. I will leave it at and I must say that I have to disagree with your opinion.
Agreed. All I can say is that the Old Test. does not apply in this particular as there was NO church for it to be applicable.
And I agree and that is exactly what I have every time this has been discussed.
" I believe the only office restricted is the pastorship and only because Paul said they need to be the husband of one wife."
Entirely personal???? All I have said is what the Bible has stated.
1 Tim. 2:12, states..............
"I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man".
That is not personal at all but is exactly what the Scriptures say. Some here on CFS have pointed to Galatians 3:28 as justification for women serving as pastors. However, it is a misuse of Scripture to produce ecclesiastical patterns from soteriological passages! While Paul clearly affirms the equality of men and women in salvation, he equally and just as clearly affirms the priority of men in church leadership. There is no conflict. The contextual issue is crucial for an accurate exposition in this, as in all areas. Readers must exercise great care, therefore, to determine the nature of the issue under discussion in order to understand and apply the message relevantly today.
Again. That is not personal but simply what the Scriptures say.
Proper relationships require the husband to function as the head and the wife to willingly submit to his leadership. In the church, wives, submissive to their husbands, are not to "have authority or be the teacher" over men (1 Timothy 2:12). This precludes a woman serving as pastor, for to do so would be to take the place of headship.
Nothing else can be or needs to be said on this and I for one am moving on as has been suggested.
Thank you so very much!!! We can never get enough prayers from our fellow believers!! I have done the same for you and will continue to do so! God bless you!
Well..........it may be because no one is will to allow the last word to be said on the subject. Maybe.