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Wives Submission, Husbands love...

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by christianbacktobasics, Jan 19, 2015.

  1. (Ephesians 5:22) Hello from Scotland and I hope you are well. That's our Christmas season at an end and Sharon and I plan on spending many an evening with our friends here on CFS so God bless you all. Just a quick thought for the Husbands and Wives out there....The wife submitting to her husband can be quite a touchy subject in most circles however when you take it in context and balance it up with verse 25 for example - "..Husbands love your wives, even as Christ also loved the Church, and gave Himself for it...". I was just wondering what husbands/wives thought of what Jesus meant by 'even as Christ also loved the Church, and gave Himself for it.' What does it mean to you, ie, what level of love was Jesus talking about?
  2. Perhaps the most taken-out-of-context verse of all time.
    SparkleEyes and Robine say Amen and like this.
  3. To be completed devoted to the well being of the "wife".
    Modern people tend to be too self centered to even begin to understand the concepts involved.
    Cturtle and christianbacktobasics say Amen and like this.
  4. Hello hadron and nice to meet you, I agree completely....the submission verses just can't stand alone....thanks for commenting...
  5. Hello Glomung, i think we've spoken in the past, we've been offline on Social networks in the past couple of months due to the time of the year but looking forward to some fellowship. I agree, i think there's a lot of biblical principles that very few understand or even agree with... I think Paul said it well to Timothy (2nd Tim 3) "...perilous times will come for men shall be lovers of there own selves..." However I'm sure there are many of us who are for Jesus...God bless and nice to speak to you again...
  6. Another verse that pairs well with this one is: "Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered."

    Some versions use the word respect, but basically if a man does not honor, respect, and love his wife, his prayers can be hindered.
    Cturtle, Waggles and zegreentreeee says Amen and like this.
  7. Amen and amen!
  8. Interesting that Jesus said, "I can of my own self do nothing...."(John 5:30) If Jesus was going to "love" the Church and give himself for it, that would require him first to submit to his Father that was dwelling within him. The man part of Jesus totally relied on his Father for every thing he did, in fact Jesus always said it was his Father dwelling within him that was doing the works. He then tells his followers , "....with out me you can do nothing..."
    There is no way a husband or even his wife can do what is commanded of them unless they themselves are first submitted to God!
    Cturtle and Abdicate say Amen and like this.
  9. Another interesting observation. Only in a "marriage" relationship is the man the "head" of his wife, but in Christ the man is not, as "in Christ there is no male or female"

    Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

    Christ is the head of woman just as much as Christ is the head of man.
  10. Submission from a worldly perspective is difficult for with our fallen nature we are always jockeying for position but as Christians we are not measured or led by intellectual strengths.
    If we are part of the Word it is simply a process of lining up with it.
    Cturtle likes this.
  11. I believe that marriage is sacred and a sacrament instituted by God himself when he created male and female Genesis 1: 26-28. Throughout the Scriptures the relationship between Israel and Yahweh is described as a marriage contract with Israel being the wife and God the husband; and then also in the NT between the Spirit-filled church and Jesus we read of the bride and the bridegroom (and the promised marriage feast where this will be consummated).
    Marriage is where two separate bodies join together to become one - both submit to each other in love and consideration for the welfare of the other. I believe that Ephesians 5 verses on husbands and wives in marriage is not just about social and legal conventions, but also much more in a spiritual sense. "For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church... And ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. Ephesians 5: 21 - 6: 4
    Here two themes are interwoven with each other. First a christian home based on the model outlined in Scripture is a model of the Church. And there is a hierarchy of responsibilities. Men, as husbands, do not have entitlements to being bossy and intolerant or warlords. It is about responsibility to provide; and to care and to nurture; and to make sacrifices for the well-being and safety of others. What Jesus did to establish his church here on Earth.
    Just as a man shall leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church (5: 31-32) Here is the spiritual dimension that Paul is alluding to. That in marriage two become one. And when believers receive the Holy Spirit and are born into the body of Christ, the Spirit-filled church and Christ become one, as in marriage. And a husband as head of the household submits to Jesus as his Lord and God and fulfills his social and spiritual duties to his family (just as Jesus submitted unto his Father and fulfilled his duties on Earth).
    Cturtle and baldeez88 say Amen and like this.
  12. Studying servant leadership changed the way I understood these passages.

    If husbands are meant to love their wives the way that Christ loved the church, then the "level of love was Jesus talking about" is a completely impossible standard that we will spend our lives striving toward, but never completely reach. That is to say: it sets a principle for a continuous striving toward a greater and greater, more serving, more self-sacrificing love.

    Christ's example of headship is servanthood (which is a totally revolutionary shift away from the way the world has always thought of headship). So when I think of the kind of relationships God intends for us, I don't think, "How can I be more in charge today?" I think, "How can I be more of a servant today?"
    Ravindran, KingJ and Waggles says Amen and like this.
  13. Spot on Roads. You must be a servant. You must take up your cross daily. You must put to "death" the flesh and natural motives and desires. We must serve one another, and prefer others in love, esteeming others higher than ourself. This is a constant theme throughout Scripture. You must become a servant to all. In marriage two become one. A congregation ought to be one. The Spirit-filled Church and Christ are to be one. No schisms nor divisions.
    The Lord has revealed to our Fellowship that one ought to pray "How may I serve you Lord?" and similarly, "How may I serve my brothers and sisters?"
    Love is to get past oneself and to put the needs of others before oneself. Love brings no harm to his neighbour. Love is the fulfillment of the Law.
    Don't think for a moment that I understood or achieved any of this when I was first converted 18 years ago. It has taken a great deal of chastisement and tribulation to overcome myself and my failings. Thank God for his mercy and grace. I wish doing it was as easy as reading of it.
    Cturtle likes this.
  14. Yes I agree with most of what you've said, thanks for the comments...
  15. Hello Roads and thank you for the comment. I think the passage I cited was very clear as God taught. His love, His level of Love can be shown on the level of Jesus. He said for us to love one another as I have loved you and we would do greater things than Him. With the Holy Spirit within, we can live and love like Jesus Christ. Thanks for the comments...
  16. You're not kidding, mate!
  17. I think the problem is we are tying to do these things on our own, and that is impossible. We want to have works that match our faith, but faith only "works" by "love". Only God himself alone is "love", so only God himself can can do the "works of faith". All he needs is a believing heart so he can do his works through us. This is exactly how Jesus walked on this earth.
    Waggles likes this.
  18. Phil. 2:5-11 shows us Jesus' example of what to do with any perceived privileges or rank: lay it down. He demonstrated the same during the Last Supper when he washed his disciples' feet; to "have a part with him" is to be humble and serving. He had earlier lectured those same disciples over the quest to have positions of importance in the coming kingdom. True leadership is found in the lowliest, weakest, least likely people. Even throughout the OT, whenever God did intervene in history, he chose the weak, the young, the reluctant, the despised, and the small. His purpose in so doing was to glorify himself rather than the vessels carrying out his will.

    And so it is in the Body of Christ, especially in that most intimate of relationships, marriage. If there is a place where mutual service and compassion are found, it should be there. Never was "suffering for Christ" to come at the hands of a fellow believer. Never was any husband told to model "Father" to his wife's "Son". Rather, all believers are to follow Jesus' example of submission to God, even to the point of laying down all privilege and entitlement.

    Husbands and wives are human beings, of the same "flesh and bone", and made in the image of God to jointly rule over nature rather than each other. Equality of being must be practiced rather than just given lip service. And equality is nothing to fear; the family will not break down, society will not crumble, children will not disrespect parents. And I speak from over 25 years of experience. Our marriage has always been a partnership rather than a chain of command, with each one leading in his or her areas of strength and following in his or her areas of weakness. Our children are saved, well-adjusted, and happy. They have learned through our example that two adults can be truly complementary in the purest sense of the word, a team of equal partners.

    Many of Paul's instructions, which included some to slaves and masters, were focused on protecting the reputation and holiness of the church, rather than endorsing social inequalities. To instruct a slave on how to be a good Christian in that situation is not to endorse slavery, just as his instructions on how a Christian wife of a non-Christian husband was not an endorsement of wifely subjection and silence. "Not so among you" was never annulled by Paul.
    Waggles likes this.
  19. To me "even as" means just like Jesus or exactly like Jesus. Husbands are the head of the house. Not in a domineering way, but in a leadership way. The husband should be like a prophet of the house, the leader who leads his family into godly ways.
  20. According to 1 Corinthians 11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

    In my opinion Galatians 3:28 above is referring to the fact that once we accept Jesus as our Lord and savior, and are apart of the Body of Christ, God sees us all the same. I am not clear about the marriage part.

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