Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by CoffeeDrinker, Jun 6, 2017.

  1. Soooooooo any more Questions on that?
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  2. You asked............"When will it ever be His will that a believer do this?"

    James 4:3 says............
    “When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures”.

    Yes, I always consider the literal first but there are many examples where the literal is not the focus and this is one of those examples IMO.

    There is good Scriptural connection that makes Mark 11:23-24 a eschatological verse. Of course rabbinical use of “moving mountains” was a phrase referring to seemingly impossible difficulties and that is my understanding as well.
  3. It seems to me that we have several pages of posts, but have not said a lot about _wisdom_.

    Shall we start by defining it? There is the quote from Charles Spurgeon that is part of my current signature:

    Wisdom is the right use of knowledge. To know is not to be wise. Many men know a great deal, and are all the greater fools for it. There is no fool so great a fool as a knowing fool. But to know how to use knowledge is to have wisdom.​

    The last sentence gives us a working definition: Wisdom is the effective use of knowledge. I would further observe that wisdom ‘looks behind’ surface knowledge to underlying and more fundamental truths and uses that understanding to make effective decisions.


    To take the discussion in another direction, In the Bible, there are certain books referred to as Sapiental, or books of Wisdom. These include Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Job, and in the apocryphal book, Sirach. What, if anything do these have in common that is not true of the other books?


    We can also look at the limitations of wisdom:

    1 Cor 1:19
    For it is written,
    “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
    And the cleverness of the clever I will set aside."

    Isaiah 29:14
    therefore, behold, I will again
    do wonderful things with this people,
    with wonder upon wonder;
    and the wisdom of their wise men shall perish,

    and the discernment of their discerning men shall be hidden.
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  4. #44 Hidden In Him, Jun 9, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2017
    Thank you Major. It appears you were referencing here this article in particular:

    Link Removed violation of
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    If so, I find some interesting things here, with one notable exception at the moment. I would take the reference to the Mt. of Olives filling the Dead Sea to be erroneous, since if you look closely "Geba to Rimmon" (in Zechariah 14:10) never really extends to the Dead Sea. All that territory remains West of it. I would also think that Zechariah 14:4 refers more to the drifting of the two parts of the Mt. of Olives away from each other, rather than any part of it being "cast into the sea." But that certainly does not preclude the possibility that the passage in Mark is eschatological. That's very interesting. Maybe it refers to another mountain.
  5. Thank you, Siloam. I love these verses.
  6. Many seem to use these verses to imply that wisdom is unimportant, as if being foolish is as much to be desired as to being wise.

    But the Bible spends a lot of verses teaching us wisdom rooted in the spirit, and a foolish man is not to be role model.

    Mans wisdom cannot stand against the Lord's wisdom, but man's foolishness causes more misery than his faulty wisdom.

    The guiding principle is what is the source of wisdom (or folly) and what (or who) does it serve.
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  7. Very possibly. It is only a thought and not a doctrine at all.

    I appreciate your comments but I am going to have to stick with the "hyperbole" explination in this case.
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  8. No problem. I enjoy anything that inspires study and investigation. I had not heard that interpretation before, and again, it still strikes me as if there might be something there... I just can't tell what. Why would He use a mountain?
  9. The Holy Spirit showed me another verse that talks about wisdom.... directly connected with The Holy Spirit, and the reason why we should desire it :)

    In Him all the treasures of [divine] wisdom (comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God) and [all the riches of spiritual] knowledge and enlightenment are stored up and lie hidden. I say this in order that no one may mislead and delude you by plausible and persuasive and attractive arguments and beguiling speech.
    Colossians 2:3‭-‬4 AMPC

    For this reason we also, from the day we heard of it, have not ceased to pray and make [special] request for you, [asking] that you may be filled with the full (deep and clear) knowledge of His will in all spiritual wisdom [in comprehensive insight into the ways and purposes of God] and in understanding and discernment of spiritual things– That you may walk (live and conduct yourselves) in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to Him and desiring to please Him in all things, bearing fruit in every good work and steadily growing and increasing in and by the knowledge of God [with fuller, deeper, and clearer insight, acquaintance, and recognition].
    Colossians 1:9‭-‬10 AMPC

    Blessings To you sister
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  10. Why Not??? It was a large object which would meet His teaching lesson.

    Again, I do not believe Verse 23 should not be taken as a blanket promise or command to change a mountain or any ground at all. There is absolutely no record in the New Testament of an apostle, gifted Christian or believer changing the ground or moving mountains into the sea. On top of that there is no record of any record of a camel literally passing through the eye of a needle.

    The language is designed to create a visual picture then as we re-create the picture in our minds - we are led to the point. In this case, the picture evokes images of great strength and power, and the point is.............
    Peter and the other disciples would need this kind of faith as opposed to the unbelief demonstrated by the withered tree.

    Dr. L.A. Stauffer says it well:...........
    "Casting mountains into the sea is not a specific objective of the will of God or Christ, but does illustrate vividly and memorably the unlimited power of God when working through men who believe and doubt not. That is all Jesus intended by this instruction,"
  11. Wisdom is חכמה (chakma) in Hebrew. Each letter has their own meaning. They spell out: separation, open hand, waters, grace.

    Hebrew is very creative with one having many meanings. So, think about what these letters mean. Our separation from God ended with the open hands of Jesus on the cross and He brought to us the fountain of grace. That is wisdom.

    Every word, nay, every letter, points to Jesus.
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  12. I dunno. Just seems odd that He would use a mountain. That the apostles never did isn't necessarily a proof, however, since our Lord promised that greater works would we do in His name, and the New Testament saints did not fulfill this promise.
    A camel passing through the eye of the needle was a reference to getting a camel through the very narrow gate into the city of Jerusalem called "the eye of the needle," called that because of its very tight and constricted entrance.
    Ok, I can go along with that one, Major. I would just simply reply that believing He could have been referring to an actual mountain rather than a rhetorical one would be to place more faith in "the unlimited power of God" than to not do so, would it not?
  13. Major And Hidden In Him if you wish to continue your discussion on mountains please do so in a pm or make another thread, for this thread has been taken off topic enough.....

    Rule 2.3 Members starting threads on specific topics expect that the threads will stay essentially on topic. Any member, other than the person starting the thread, who takes a specific thread way off topic and derails the content of the thread will be given a friendly staff notice. A second derailment or continuation of the off topic direction by that member will result in a warning and all non topical posts in that thread will be eliminated. A third off topic hijacking by that member will result in a 1 week time out and all non topical posts in that thread will be eliminated. A fourth offense will result in a permanent ban and all posts by that member will be removed from CFS.

    Thank you and Blessings

    We apologize CoffeeDrinker for taking your thread off topic.

    Thank you to those who kept your comments on the original posters topic.
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  14. #54 Major, Jun 10, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2017
    My apologies.
    It does seem that coffee drinker disappeared at comment #15 or so and the thread took on a life of its own with several members being involved after she stopped posting.

    Not an excuse, just an observation.
  15. Hi everyone, just joining on your conversation having read all comments. Wisdom to me is the still, small quiet voice of God prompting us to say, to do the right thing. Wisdom to recognise the time to intervene, the time to stay quiet. Much like Pinocio in the story, where he has the cricket as his conscience we have God to guide us and help us have the wisdom to know what to do.

    We all think back and wish in hindsight that we had done things differently.

    To me it does not matter to me if Wisdom is male or female, it is God given and we need to continually ask for wisdom on a daily basis. It is so easy to 'miss our footing' when we are trying to read a situation and by responding without wisdom we get it wrong. To me it should be a daily, prayer for all situations when taking decisions you are unsure of. Lord, please give me your wisdom to know what to do. Amen
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  16. #56 Complete, Jun 12, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2017

    'Wisdom crieth without;
    she uttereth her voice in the streets:
    She crieth in the chief place of concourse,
    in the openings of the gates:
    in the city she uttereth her words, saying,

    (Pro 1:20-21)

    Hi @'CoffeeDrinker,

    Here 'wisdom' is personified, it is not a living thing, but is being spoken of as such, for a purpose. Solomon is saying that wisdom is not silent, not hidden away from sight, it is not beyond the reach of anyone to find.

    Solomon asked God for wisdom, and he received it.

    In Christ Jesus
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  17. 'But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise;
    and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
    And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen,
    yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
    That no flesh should glory in His presence.
    But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus,
    Who of God is made unto us wisdom,
    and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
    That, according as it is written,
    He that glorieth, let Him glory in the Lord.'

    (1Cor. 1:27-31)

    Hello CoffeeDrinker,

    When thinking of wisdom, I automatically think of the verses above. How wonderful to know that our Lord Jesus Christ, now risen and glorified, and sat at God's right hand, the place of power and authority, is made unto us 'wisdom'.

    He is our wisdom, our righteousness, sanctification and redemption, Our glorious Head.

    In His Holy Name.
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  18. The book of Proverbs is a great store of wisdom presented is an accessible way. A verse in Proverbs is often a concise thought , or piece of wisdom, while a chapter is often a weaving of these individual truths into a larger fabric of understanding (however, chapters are an invention the church and inserted later). Here, I present the 2nd chapter, which is about acquiring wisdom, and details many of its benefits.

    Proverbs 2 [NASB]

    [1] My son, if you will receive my words
    And treasure my commandments within you,

     [2 ]Make your ear attentive to wisdom,
    Incline your heart to understanding;

    [3] For if you cry for discernment,

    Lift your voice for understanding;
    [4] If you seek her as silver
    And search for her as for hidden treasures;
    Then you will discern the fear of the Lord
    And discover the knowledge of God.

    Verses 1-5 are a series of transactional invitations (If you want wisdom, then listen). These are promises, but we have to do our part.

    I would note that Young’s Literal Translation of the Holy Bible renders v3 as:

    For, if intelligence thou callest, For understanding givest forth thy voice”,

    or more plainly: If you are asking for intelligence, it would be better to be asking for understanding.

    [6] For the Lord gives wisdom;
    From His mouth come knowledge and understanding.
    [7] He stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
    He is a shield to those who walk in integrity,
    [8] Guarding the paths of justice,
    And He preserves the way of His godly ones.
    [9] Then you will discern righteousness and justice
    And equity and every good course.
    [10] For wisdom will enter your heart
    And knowledge will be pleasant to your soul;

    [11] Discretion will guard you,
    Understanding will watch over you,

    The Lord is the source of wisdom, which is equated to knowledge combined with understanding.

    The Lord stockpiles wisdom (in His Word, and in His world) for those follow Him, actually entering into our being and this keeps safe our path and providing discernible guides to staying on the correct path.

    [12] To deliver you from the way of evil,
    From the man who speaks perverse things;

    [13] From those who leave the paths of uprightness
    To walk in the ways of darkness;

    [14] Who delight in doing evil
    And rejoice in the perversity of evil;

    [15] Whose paths are crooked,
    And who are devious in their ways;

    [16] To deliver you from the strange woman,
    From the  adulteress who flatters with her words;

    [17] That leaves the companion of her youth
    And forgets the covenant of her God;

    [18] For her house sinks down to death
    And her tracks lead to the dead;

    [19] None who go to her return again,
    Nor do they reach the paths of life.

    The alternative to learning wisdom and walking its path is the way of the world which wander away from uprightness and all forms of evil. This teaches that to do evil is the opposite of wisdom (folly)/

    [20] So you will walk in the way of good men
    And keep to the paths of the righteous.

    [21] For the upright will live in the land
    And the blameless will remain in it;

    [22] But the wicked will be cut off from the land
    And the treacherous will be uprooted from it.

    In summary, by seeking wisdom (and putting it into action on a personal level, you remain a citizen of the Lord’s Kingdom, while the wicked will perish.
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  19. LOL!
  20. AHA! I just found something out that may answer this question. The "Holy Spirit" in Hebrew (רוח הקודש) and Aramaic (רוחא דקודשא) is feminine, and regularly referred to by using feminine pronouns.

    Isn't that interesting...
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