Will our memories follow us?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Major, Apr 25, 2011.

  1. To follow up on the question of..."Will we know our loved ones in heaven", we need to answer the next question which is......Will we have memories???

    Example #1

    Matthew 7:21-23.................
    "Not everyone who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven. Many will say to Me on that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles? And then I will declare to them, I never knew you; Depart from me, you who practice lawlessness."
    At first glance these verses appear like they have nothing to do with our ability to recognize each other on the other side of death, but look at what these verses really say.

    For in these verses, those at the judgment are pictured arguing with God about their supposedly good works while on earth. If they lost their memory at death, how could they remember their supposedly good works? (Does this not show memory?)

    These verses clearly establish the fact that on the other side of death's door when we are at the last judgment, men will be possessed of the memory of deeds done while on earth! Do you see the importance of this verse? You will not only remember all the horrible things that you did to your own brothers and sisters in this life, but you will also remember all the good things. Your memory will be intact. It has to be if you are going to argue with God about what you did and didn't do to various people.

    The above verse also asks the question, "Did we not cast out demons in your name"? In order to ask that question, one would first have to remember actually casting out demons. Then the person would also have to remember specific people that he was attempting to cast demons out of. So this verse tells us that there is going to be memory on the other side of the grave.
    Example #2
    Matthew 25:40............
    "And the King will answer and say to them, Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to Me."
    Again we have the judgment scene, but why did Jesus refer to his brethren, if the people Jesus was talking to wouldn't know or wouldn't remember the brethren that Jesus was talking about?
    From Matthew 25:35 to 40, Jesus talks about the sick, the poor, the hungry, etc. But the people that Jesus is talking to ask, "When did we see you sick, or hungry, etc?" In other words they were searching their memory trying to remember when they saw Jesus sick or hungry. If they didn't have any memory, why would Jesus bring up something like that for them to remember?

    In the above passages we can only arrive at the conclusion that future recognition is an assured fact. In the field of criminal jurisprudence, a man is regarded as worthy of punishment for unsocial acts committed, only when it appears that he is mentally capable of recognizing the nature of his deed. In other words, we can only be punished if we are mentally aware of the
    wrongs that we did, and please keep in mind that our just and loving Heavenly Father is a God of justice.
    Example #3
    LUKE 16:19-31 is the story of the rich man and Lazarus and the gulf that separates them. But a study of those verses will show that the rich man had all his faculties. He could feel, see, hear, and remember. If you say it is a parable, that changes nothing, because its main purpose is a glimpse into the future state of the dead. All are conscious of their surroundings. Memory is retained.
    Examples of this are:
    a) In verse 25, Abraham tells the rich man, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented."
    b) In verses 27-28, the rich man pleads with Abraham, "Then he said, I beg you therefore Father Abraham, that you would send Lazarus to my father's house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment."
    What say you on this??????????????
  2. I agree! But I think there is more to it than just what you have shown.

    Luke 16 has Abraham and the rich man talking. No where does it say Lazarus remembers his suffering.

    I fully believe the verses that say the wicked will be destroyed even their memory will be as dust, and that God will wipe away every tear, means that after judgement everything will be perfect. The hurt and the wrongs we have committed or had committed against us will be as tho they never happened.

    Furthermore, will know and remember all that is good from the past and we may even have a knowledge of things not being so great before, but we will not remember people who perished.

    We will all b e judged, the saved for based upon their love for God, because there is no judgement for those in Christ Jesus - we are forgiven.....and the unsaved will be judged according to the law because they rejected the grace of God.
  3. I take a different tack on this, since we wil be "changed and perfected" our memories would be complete in every detail, and for the first time we would be aware of the "truth" (not opinions) of the various circumstances and happenings that occured in our lives. For those who says that "we could not bear the knowledge of friends or famliy being damned", you would have perfect understanding of "why" the damned made the choices they did and would be in agreement with God that things could not be otherwise. In the Orthodox tradition, much of becoming a wiser Christian is conforming your will to the will of God, this includes being in agreement with the decisions He makes.
    Major likes this.
  4. I'm already in agreement with God. Doesn't change the fact that I love someone just because I understand why. Won't make me miss someone any less.

    But I think (as opposed to believing) that my brothers and sisters in Christ will be who I feel a conection to and view as my family, friends and loved ones....even those I never met while on Earth. Those who are perishing I will not see or view as someone I had a relationship with, as the Scriptures say, "what fellowship do we have with the wicked" paraphasing there, but it's close.

    I don't think we will be subjected to watching anyone suffer either...that would be kind of twisted. We will see justice and experience mercy.
  5. Your comment was..........
    "No where does it say Lazarus remembers his suffering" (Speaking of Lazerus in Luke 16).
    I for one DO believe he remembers his suffering. Notice the words Jesus said:
    Verse 24......"Cool my tongue". That calls attention to the heat/fire he was IN.
    Verse 24......"For I AM TORMENTED in this flame". Does that not speak to WHAT he was suffering from?

    I John 3:2 "Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we shall be. We know that, when He appears, we shall be like Him, because we shall see Him just as He is."
    So, if we are to be like Christ, doesn't it also include our ability to remember and recognize other people, just like Christ will be able to remember and recognize them? He can see us and will see all others, and we will not only see him but we will also see all others. He knows us and knows all others, and we will know him and know all others. He will recognize us and all others, and we will recognize him and recognize all others. He will remember us, and we will remember him and everyone we ever knew.

    The Word of God
    Do we for a moment think that when we join Our Lord in heaven that we will have forgotten completely about his Word. Of course not. Matthew 24:35 tells us, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away". So not only will we remember his word but we will remember who first taught us about his word, who we studied his Word with, who we taught and who taught us about the Word of God, and who we were able to bring a little closer to Jesus when we used and followed the Word of God.
  6. You've misunderstood, Major. The Rich Man did indeed remember his sins and, if you notice, he did not ask to be taken from his punishment. He only asked if others could be warned. The answer to that is they have all been warned and chose to ignore the warnings. They have no one but themselves to blame for their eternal fate.

    But Lazarus does not give any indication of experiencing anything unpleasant - not even the Rich man's suffering.
  7. Oh my goodness! NO---no, it was me who got it wrong. For some reason I quoted the rich man in torments NOT Lazarus.

    My fault all the way.
  8. The answer to this is really dependent on whether we take these bodies with us or whether we get new ones. Our memories are stored entirely in our brains, damage to the brain can cause the loss of memory. If we have new bodies in eternity, then we will not have the memories that are in our old bodies.
  9. So, you think our souls have no awareness?

    How do you explain Jesus conversation with the sheep and the goats?
  10. Nice to see you again Ginger :)

    Are you talking about Matthew 25? That conversation is a hypothetical one, in that it hasn't happened yet. Either way, at no point in the passage did any goats or any sheep recall any memory. Actually, both groups were shown to not be able to remember. I think that is interesting considering that the hypothetical people he is speaking to in Matthew 25 should have already known this principle of taking care of the least of these is the same as taking care of Christ. So if you wanted to take this passage literally, not being able to remember when they did or did not take care of The Lord actually supports my position.

    However, I think this story is a parable, and that's why they can't remember.
  11. It is actually prophetic my friend (32-46) and it is about the judgment of the nations.

    It concerns all of the nations which survive the killings of the Antichrist and Armageddon. Since it is our soul/spirit which continues on after death, what then would be the sense of a Judgment if no remembers what it is that the are being judged for??????

    Then consider verse #44...........
    "Then shall THEY also answer Him, saying, Lord when we saw the an hungered or athirst or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not miister unto thee."

    When judged by Christ, when the accounts were read, does not the verse tell us that they REMEMBERED WHAT THEY DID TO MINISTER TO THOSE THEY WERE IN CONTACT WITH???

    Then you need to consider Luke 16:25---
    "But Abraham said, son, REMEMBER that thou in thy lifetime received good things and like wisw Lazraus evil things but now he is comforted and thou aret tormented."

    He was dead his soul being in hell and Abraham said for him to REMEMBER!!!!

    There is more.......................
    verse #27
    "Then he said, I pray thee therefore that thou would send someone to my father's house."

    IF we have no memory after death, how do you explain that the rich man in hell REMEMBERED that he had a father".

    Verse #28..........
    "For I have five brethern that he may testify to them".

    IF he had no memory, how do you explain that he REMEMERED that he had 5 brothers????

    2 Corth. 5:10
    "We will ALL (Believers) appear before the judgment seat of Christ (Bema Seat) that every one may receive the things done in his body".

    Believers both alive and those who have died, theirs souls will be before Christ to receive their rewards. What good would a reward for sould winning be if we have no memory of what we did for the Lord.

    Romans 14:12
    "So then everyone of us shall give an accunt of himself to God".

    That is after death and if our souls have no memory, WHAT IN HEAVENS NAME WOULD WE GIVE AN ACCOUNT OF'????

    I really think you need to re-consider your position on this my friend.
  12. Agreed.

    I was speaking to the fact that the rich man had a memory after death and in hell because he in fact REMEMBERED his father and and the fact that he had five brothers.

    Also agreed about Lazarus. He was in the "Paradise" side of Sheol/Hades therefore he would not have experienced anything unpleasent.
  13. Major,
    What translation are you using for Matthew 25:44? It sounds like KJV, if it is I think you misquoted it:

    "Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?" -KJV
    It's a question, "When did we see you?"

    The bulk of my previous post was a spur of the moment observation. While Matthew 25 taken in a concrete literal sense does not advocate for afterlife memory explicitly, the other scriptures that you mentioned do advocate for afterlife memory when taken into account in a concrete literal sense. While I think the Lazarus story was not meant to be taken in a historical context, it still seems like the bible says that pre-death memory exists after death. This leads me to believe that we retain our bodies in the afterlife.
  14. People say they didn't remember because they asked "when?" But I disagree. Lots and lots of christians neglect to do what is right and don't seem to have a clue. In that same respect, some do what is right without giving a thought to it.

    In fact, there was a time I showed kindness and common courtesy to two young men and never gave a thought to what it might mean to them or what impact my kindness might have on them until years later when I ran into one of them.

    How can those under the alter ask how long before their blood is avenged if the don't remember being persecuted for Christ's sake?
  15. I already admitted that multiple scriptures indicate memory after death after I saw all of the scriptures Major brought up. The first one you mentioned doesn't necessarily show that is my only point.
  16. Yes we retain our bodies. That was not the question you spoke to. It was do we have a memory !!!!
    Luke 16 is not a parabel my friend. Jesus uses a PROPER name in "Lazarus". Therefore it is a teaching on which we can learn the reality of MEMORY after death as well as the horrors of being lost and finding our soul in a LITERAL Hell.
    Yes I use the KJV. I have for 40 years, no need to change now.
    To me it makes no difference if it was a question or a command. The point is..........
    no one can be judged if they have no memory of what they are being judged for. Therefore, memory has to be retained by our souls after our body dies.
    Nice to speak with you my friend.
  17. Major, I was referring to my first post in this thread, which does talk about whether we retain our bodies or not.
  18. I agree with Glomung in this. I believe we will have our memories of our life on this earth once we enter heaven. Our sojurn here is such a training ground in preparation for our eternity, it seems pointless to me to forget anything. We will be free from sin, but we will remember what it was to be sinners.

    For those we may love here, that do not turn to Christ, do we remember them. I believe so. But our relationship with God, our bodies without sin, our understanding of things, will be such as we will not grieve over this. So, I don't think God takes our memory away of our lost loved ones to spare us pain. I think God adds to our understanding and our spirit so that we are perfectly at peace with it all.

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