Will Our Faith Survive The Coming End Times?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Waggles, Feb 24, 2015.

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  1. Jesus asked the most incredible challenging question to us all -
    When the Son of Man returns shall I find faith upon the earth?
    Lots of people talk about their faith. I love Jesus. I am saved by my faith in him. My faith is mighty and I can do all things through him....
    If the christian world is so full of faith warriors - then why did Jesus ask a rhetorical question? He already knew the answer to his question.
    And if christians are claiming such great faith on their own behalf, then why are they all in such a hurry to get beamed up out of harm's way when the great tribulation comes upon the whole earth? That's not faith. That's not overcoming. There is no challenge to living by faith and finishing the race in the rapture fantasy .
    It is a get out of jail free card. In the world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer I have overcome the world.
    Being a christian is about overcoming. Surviving all calamities by the power of faith. Today right now christians are being killed for the gospel; being killed for distributing Bibles; being burnt alive and/or stoned to death in Pakistan, under their dreadful blasphemy laws. Where is their rapture?
    Why should thousands of christians be martyred in upholding their faith, and Western christians, who have let the team down, be safely whisked away?
    The delusion of rapture before the great tribulation is the stuff of cowards.
    The scriptures over and over again speak to our suffering and being despised, of being hated for upholding the gospel. In fact to preach the gospel until the end of the world - nothing about a holiday.
    Remember the parable of the 10 virgins. Five were ready and went into the marriage feast, five were not ready and the door was shut. Their vessels were empty. Empty of faith and commitment. Empty of the power of the Holy Spirit to sustain and overcome all things. Empty of witnessing and evangelizing.

    If thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength is small. Proverbs 24:10
    Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
    Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
    Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
    Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
    Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
    Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
    Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    Faith is proven and developed and tried under fire; not in escape. When the world is on fire, when Armageddon is happening , will you and I have faith?
    The early first century christians were fed to the lions. They were crucified. Bible translators were burnt at the stake for daring such heresy. Daniel and his fellows were thrown into a fiery furnace. Daniel survived the lion's den. Christians are being savagely persecuted throughout the Middle East. Isaiah was sawn in half. The rapture is a cop out. Read Hebrews chapter 11, on faith heroes.

    I will share a revelation with you - only our real faith will save us from the plague that will come and from nuclear fallout, and the pandemonium of a lawless fallen world. If we cannot pray in these times for our salvation and protection we will die with the rest of the world.
    Have we got what it takes to keep the faith until the end?
    Have we the love of our Lord and Saviour to death?
    Time is running out for this world quicker than most people think. The wolves are at the door.
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  2. I fully agree with you that time is running out! And being able to daily live by faith will cause us to be strong in our faith. Because if you don't exercise your faith now, when it comes time for the rubber meeting the road, our faith will not be strong enough to withstand whatever comes our way.

    Thank you for reminding us all to be praying for our brothers and sisters in Christ that are being severly persecuted. That God would place a hedge of protection around them and give them strength to face whatever comes their way, and peace to know that especially now God loves them so much!
    Waggles likes this.
  3. John Piper explains the implications of Jesus' question this way:

    The word from Jesus to us this morning is: don't stop praying; don't peter out; don't be fickle; but "always pray and don't lose heart." And this word increases in urgency as we see the end of the age drawing near. As Peter says (1 Peter 4:7), "The end of all things is at hand; therefore, keep sane and sober for your prayers." The pressures of worldliness will become greater as the end draws near, therefore, all the more must we watch and be sober unto prayer, and not lose heart.

    So if you believe that Jesus is coming back . . . pray, pray, and keep on praying. As the coming of Christ draws near, we ought to pray more, not less because in the Last Days prayer marks us as true followers of Jesus.

    You said........
    "There is no challenge to living by faith and finishing the race in the rapture fantasy ."

    In a friendly, loving way I would encourage you to do some Bible study on WHO the tribulation is intended for and WHY.

    Rom.1:18-19 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.”

    Because of unbeliever’s nature and relationship to the kingdom of darkness, they will experience the darkness and wrath of the Day of the Lord. By contrast, because of the believer’s nature and relationship to the kingdom of light, the Church will experience the coming hope, the blessed hope. The darkness and wrath period covers the entire 70th week that is withheld for the finale of mans government. The Church will be removed from earth before or around the 70th week beginning. It is the righteous that are taken.

    In 1 Thess.5:4 Paul writes that the Church is removed before the day of darkness so that the Day of the Lord will not overtake them like a thief in the night. Since it initiates the judgment, God will remove the Church from the darkness not keep them through it.

    I do not indeed to argue the point, only to point out to you something's that you might want to consider.
    Not one Old Testament passage on the tribulation refers to the church (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11; Dan. 8:24-27; 12:1-2), the New Testament never speaks of the church in relation to the tribulation only Israel.
    This is why it is stated they keep the commandments and the testimony of Jesus .

    Rev 12:17 ..........
    “And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring (Israel), who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” (Matt. 13:30, 39-42, 48-50; 24:15-31; Rev. 4-18).
  4. If you are a believer, you have already overcome the world, because greater is he who is in you, than he that is in the world.

    1John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
    JG27_chili and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  5. 1. Who is a believer? How do you define that compared to whom Jesus would himself define a believer?
    2. "The Church" shall be beamed up to escape... who are THE church? The Catholics? Protestants? Eastern Orthodox? Lutherans? Methodists?
    Jehovah Witnesses? Anglicans? Does Jesus share the same definition of THE church as Americans?
    3. Why should Christians throughout the world, principally in the Middle East, Indonesia, Pakistan and India, communist countries and elsewhere, suffer high levels of persecution (often unto death ), and yet Americans believe that none of this will come upon them. No persecution, but heavenly escape??
    Wishful thinking and extremely unscriptural.
  6. #6 naomanos, Feb 24, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2015
    If rapture happens before, after or never, it happens. I am not looking for it as I have too much other stuff such as wife's health, my children, my mom's health, my mother-in-law's health, taking care of a newborn, doing household things, such as cleaning, cooking, washing clothes, watching over our two year old, keeping track of my wife's medications, my wife's disease modifying drug denial, her denial for her scooter, etc... to even think about the rapture.

    If it doesn't happen before, I will deal with persecution then.

    I have more than enough to think about and keeping me busy, that I have no time to think about the rapture or when it will happen. I barely even have enough time for me time, where I can sit down and relax. I don't even know when the last time I read my Bible was or gone to church. I am just too tired on Sunday mornings to go to church since I stay up with the newborn till 4-5am and then my wife takes her shift. I am asleep too many times past 11am in the morning which is a broken sleep and not nearly enough.
  7. There is no question that it is going to get very ugly before it is all over. I don't subscribe to the notion, but I can very much understand the appeal of the "rapture". Nobody in their right mind wants to go through persecution and deprivation.
    A lot of "christians" will fall away, they already are in droves, even without troubles.
    I just hope to get through the coming mess without any blood on my hands.
  8. #8 CCW95A, Feb 25, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2015
    There have already been three "raptures". Enoch who was and was no more for God had taken him. Then we have "Elijah" who was taken up in a cloud, and also Jesus risen from the grave. Why would we ever think there is no rapture? This seems to be God's preferred mode of operation.
  9. Every one born of the incorruptible seed of the Word of God has already overcome the world. Their faith is the victory which Satan could not stop from happening. Satan is the god of this world, for the whole world lies in wickedness and is under the control of the wicked one. All those who live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution in this world. This happening right now no matter where you live, and its severity varies from region.
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  10. It is a matter of timing. It seems to be a peculiarity of American Evangelistic preaching that they [the church?] are to be taken up before the great tribulation that is coming on the Earth. Suffering for one's faith is the lot of others in the world, but not for Evangelical Americans. Up, up and away while supposedly those not belonging to THE [?] Church are punished and tormented. Sorry, not in the scriptures.
    Revelation 7:13-14
    And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
    And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
    Matthew 13:29-30
    But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
    Let both grow together until the harvest:
    and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
    Matthew 13:36-43
    Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
    He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
    The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
    The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
    As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
    The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
    Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
  11. I agree and All the more reason to be praying that the Lord of the Harvest will continue to send out laborers to reap the harvest of souls bringing as many into reconciliation with the Father as possible. And we also should be doing our part to be a godly example, so that when asked, we can give an answer for the hope that lies within us.

    How much do we as a body of Christ Love God's created beings? Unconditionally? God' s heart is going after the lost....so what are we doing to build relationships, and love the lost into the Kingdom of God? This is the time to not be "playing" Church, and disrespecting others. Church or denominational fights should be a thing of the past....our common goal should be to preach Jesus Christ and Christ Crucified, and how much He loves us so that we can bring as many with us as possible.
    Waggles likes this.
  12. Any possible way to listen to the radio or mp3 while doing chores? At least you would be feeding your spirit, and nourishing your faith.
    I'll be praying that God will be sending favor ahead of your wife for her scooter and for your strength! God love you and is carrying you through this! Think of the footprints poem. Blessings of strength to you my friend!
  13. Yes, it is one of the reasons that my Fellowship places a very high value on evangelizing and preaching the gospel. There are people out there hungering for righteousness and seeking the truth. And there is enormous Holy Spirit Revival throughout the world, particularly Africa, Asia, non-christian countries, the Third World - time is short, and Satan knows it better than most people. Meanwhile in rich countries Holy Spirit Revival is dying.
    Look at this 933 full immersion baptisms in Wewak Papua New Guinea:
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  14. It's sad to hear of the work of the gospel and the Holy Spirit's influence is not as strong in some areas as it should be. I believe that in america, that we are going to see a change, a shift if you will. More people being sent forth to preach the gospel, and reach others. There is a lot of Bible believing, Spirit filled believers, that are praying for revival, and for the government to be flooded with people who will vote with their convictions instead of being swayed by money, by big groups who just want their way.

    So many people believe that God is a mean God. But in fact that He is a loving God, who has been made out to be mean. If the devil can convince people that God is mean or unjust, they will not turn to Him. So i definitely pray for the Lord of the Harvest to keep sending out laborers so that there are less that His heart is broken over. I know that He will hurt much if just one person perishes without knowing Him, but the less the better, in my book!
    Will be praying for your fellowship! Blessings brother waggles

  15. Just one question......who or what or why are we praying? Just trying to get a sense of your thoughts my friend.
  16. Not really. I cannot listen to the radio or loud as my mother-in-law is generally watching television and we live in a small apartment where the TV is in the living room which is the center room in the house and my listening to the radio would disturb her. I cannot use eat phones as I need to be able to hear my wife call out and generally with earphones I cannot hear beyond those.
  17. Makes a lot of sense! May the Lord be gracious to you and bless you with strength and peace!
  18. No not everyone. I have seen far too many saints give up walking with the Lord, and going back into the world. Remember the parable of the 'Sower and the Seed' whereby only one in four seeds falls into good soil and produces fruit.
    Not everyone overcomes the world. Depends on what gospel and what "church" you belong to. Not all promote victory in Jesus. Not all teach to deny the flesh and to be a overcomer. Not all bear fruit of the Spirit. Not all have the Spirit according to the Scriptures.
    1Peter 1:22-23
    Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
    Unfortunately, this is still only applies to a small minority of christianity. Most christians in the West still argue over the Scriptures and what the gospel is necessary to salvation. Is everyone a lighthouse?
    1Peter 1:7-9
    That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

    The tribulation that is coming upon the Earth is not only to burn up sin; but also to separate the chaff from the wheat. There will be a terrible falling away as so many have been lead astray by false promises of safety in the rapture (that ain't going to happen).
    Luke 18:8 I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
  19. If you look at this "parable" which Jesus spoke of, and if you do not pay attention to what is being said you will miss it's meaning. There are two parts to the parable of the "wheat, and tares", but each one have very similar circumstances. Jesus begins all tells his disciples.....

    Mat 13:24 He put another parable before them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field,
    Mat 13:25 but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away.
    Mat 13:26 So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also.
    Mat 13:27 And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, 'Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?'
    Mat 13:28 He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' So the servants said to him, 'Then do you want us to go and gather them?'
    Mat 13:29 But he said, 'No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them.
    Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.'"

    Notice: Jesus tells his reapers "...to bind the weeds in bundles TO BE BURNED...." Jesus did not say bind them and then burn them, but just bind them TO BE BURNED.... What were the reapers to do with the wheat? ".....GATHER THEM INTO MY BARN!!!!"
    What do you suppose this "barn" is? The Kingdom of Heaven....The rapture!!!! Those who are to be burned later will not be partakers with the righteous in the gathering into God's Kingdom.

    Later Jesus's disciples asked him about this parable, and then Jesus describes another form of the wheat, and tares describing the end of the wicked, not the righteous as they are already gone!! This gathering is not for the righteous, but of the wicked!!! This time the wicked are cast immediately into the fire!!!

    Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
    Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
    Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
    Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
    Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
    Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
    Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire
    : there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

    As for those who "washed their robes in the blood of Jesus" they are not the same people who were "given white robes."
    Those who washed their robes in the blood of Jesus came out of the "great tribulation" for they had to die for their faith, but those who were "given white robes" where raptured from the earth before the great tribulation.
  20. If any seed does not produce it's fruit, then they never were a child of God. The very first fruit produced in any one life as a Christian is the New Birth!!!
    There was only one person in the parable of the "sower" that produced any fruit.

    1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

    Never forget, that the fruit that is produced does no come from the person, but from the "seed" which is the Word of God. No one can stop the Word from producing once it produces it's first fruit. A good tree can NEVER produce bad fruit!!
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