Will I Be Saved?

Discussion in 'Fellowship Time' started by Kayte, Dec 26, 2013.

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  1. Thank you Gene, that was far better than previous post. I have no idea what Day I was born again, I started to confess Jesus as Lord when I first heard in Prison. God put me with some awesome powerful men of God. It did not occur to me that I was not saved, it just occurred to me that I needed to believe and obey God.

    Beating Sheep:

    The Sheep you call getting beaten mostly know everything (At least think they do), and when they post as if they come off as knowing something you treat them on the same level. I don't call names and I don't tell them they are teaching falsely or tell them that they are heretics. I use a scripture and paint them in a corner since they consider themselves as those that teach. You find forums full of chiefs and not many Indianans.

    The rest you find I am very gentle as they have questions. I have toned down a lot through the years though.

    God's Advocate:
    A women who was living in sin, I found at work crying (My co-worker) She is a believer so I asked whats up with you. She told me that people in back were putting down Jesus and she let them have it. (Despite the fact she was sleeping around) I knew she was not in the place to receive so I told her Jesus don't need an advocate or someone to stick up for him.

    So I stand corrected because that is not exactly how I meant that. I should have said people pinning evil on God gets me on my soap box. Like saying God Gave permission to the devil to Murder the mans kids taking one scripture (2 but same) out of context and giving them their own private interpenetration. My Father would never give permission to a disobedient angle to murder the children of someone that served him. No, something else happened. Job's fault, not God's.

    Acts of faith:
    I gave you my first act of faith. I trusted the Word and it came to pass. I can't say I knew what happened at the time or understood, but I did not spend life in Prison. I also gave you the scripture I meditated on. You want healing and stuff like that?
    The best gift is the one a person needs at the time. Healing is great, but not always what they need to get fixed. Lots of cases they are out of line somewhere and God would fix that because if they can't obey in that little then Healing is not going to matter.

    I'll give one out of many:
    Working for a Pastor that ran night service and I ran morning service asked me to teach Sunday night since one of his teachers was not showing up (Again) The folks at night did not like me or my position on faith so I out of obedience and respect for the Pastor that owned the Church agreed and agreed not to much of that faith stuff. (There was a split between night and day service and I had the largest service which bothered the original night folk)

    I gave a very simple Joel Osteen, God loves you type of message and that we should love to serve God because he is so Good to us. I tried to keep it simple and not offend anyone. (These folks did not like to hear deep stuff)
    Someone had brought a young girl to service with them who came up at the end when I made Alter call. So I had a landslide of ONE come up.

    I went through the whole accept Jesus as your Lord and all the sins be forgiven and normal stuff you hear at any other church. Things were going fine and she was crying and smiling which is a good sign.

    Thinking I was about to get the heck out of there she did not go back and sit down. It was the end of service, all that was left was some music and the folks talk and leave. I had enough of glaring eyes for the night and it felt like I preached to a wall.

    Except for the girl, something I said stirred something up in her.

    So she asked in front of everyone.............. Will God heal my stomach? (She was a noob, nobody told her you don't ask the Pastor those types of questions in a atmosphere like that)

    You could hear a pin drop in the place, all those eyes looking and just waiting for what I would say.

    Most Pastor say, yes, yes Child, God does heal and I'll pray for you that his healing touch be on you and His will be done. This way if nothing happens you don't look bad and everyone knows it's up to God anyway, right?

    sigh............ It did not matter, Night service did not like me anyway. I looked at her and said, "Of course God will heal you, right here and now."

    I had no idea what was wrong with her stomach but to God it don't matter either. I asked her if It would be OK to put my hand on her stomach and she said yes. I then said.........."Devil, this Girl is now the property of God, get out of here your work with her is finished. Stomach, in the Name of Jesus be made whole, be healed and function as God intended."

    She said she felt like warm all over her stomach and went to one knee. After she got up with more tears she bolted off to her friends that brought her. It was but 5 minutes later as I was trying to get the heck out of there she grabbed my arm and asked if it would be Ok to go out to eat with her friends. (I found out later she could only have non-solid food and very little of even that)

    I said your Healed, go eat what you like. So she did............

    It was a few days later this girl with her friends ( I knew one of them) came to my house to tell me she went in for the surgery and what the scans showed was where all the tears in her stomach had been there was light scar tissue inside as if someone had repaired her from the inside. She said the doctors were surprised and she did not have to have the surgery.

    We lay hands on the sick, they will recover. For those that believe in His name shall do this and more.

  2. Michael, I've been reading your posts in this thread and I'm not sure I'm fully tracking your position on this, only because I know in previous posts you were presenting other views as well and I might have mixed some of it up. Please clear his up for me: how does evil work in the world then? What role does God play? I think above you're saying he does not permit it. Does he ignore it then?Predestine it? Foresee it? Or something else?
  3. I am sorry if I confused things Kurt, I seriously did not mean to do that.

    Also please understand that we are talking about two major groups that believe two different things and a whole lot believe both. These doctrines of God's foreknowledge and God's predestination have been around for a very long time and both sides battle it out.

    The only sin people are getting judged on right now is if they know Jesus or not. In fact they are already judged.

    You know what........... Read though this, it got posted off topic in another thread. Read it carefully.
    Love is how God operates........... read then post if you have questions, I cover foreknowledge and predestination:

    I think your pretty close to solving what religion has not been able to solve for years...... (I mean years) you spoke about love, and by that we know God is Love. Not that we loved him, but He first loved us.

    Any persons that loves God will do as God asked and please God. We know them by their actions...... (Fruit)

    Angels are not in the God class, we are. They are created servants and should perform as they were created. Much like a car should keep getting you to work or else you fix and/or replace the car. There is no Love in God for what He created to serve no more than I love my can opener created to open cans. Servants do as expected to do or you throw them out and get new ones.

    Being created as god in God's own image then we have the ability to fellowship with God on a level the angels can't. They do as they have learned and told. No angel using their own wisdom has done anything that worked. They do by servitude, we do it out of Love. There is a night and day difference between a created thing to serve and a real child just like yourself.

    Love solves the confusion: (Does God predestine, Just have foreknowledge, or neither)

    Foreknowledge in that God knows ahead of time who will serve him and who wont sounds OK on the surface but if you examine what that exactly means you will understand God has no foreknowledge of what anyone is going to Be doing 5 years from now.

    I know that is a pretty bold statement, but one has to ask...... How would God know? God knows one thing about us, that is our heart. He would know by that what choices we might might if presented with a situation. We see that here with God speaking to Moses about Pharaoh. God knows Pharaoh, God is the one that made Pharaoh King and blessed him.

    Exo 3:19 And I am sure that the king of Egypt will not let you go, no, not by a mighty hand.

    I am sure is not a predestination statement, it's not a I already know ahead of time statement. It's a statement based on Pharaohs past deeds and current heart condition.

    If God has Foreknowledge of every persons choice then it's no longer foreknowledge but predestination. If God had any foreknowledge then one has to ask at What Point did God get that? God put the spirit in man, so it's hard to believe God just dropped a bunch of spirits into a bunch of bodies and then it came to him one day some dawning revelation of what each man would end up choosing.

    Zec_12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

    That would mean God has no plan for each person made, nor is in control of his creation but is more like a fortune teller that just sits and knows stuff.

    If God's foreknowledge is before placing the spirit into a body then it's no longer foreknowledge but predestination and man has no free will. If God's foreknowledge comes after, then we are not fearfully or wonderfully made nor made with a plan or thought.

    This is the Calvinist argument. It is logical and makes sense as God being some fortune teller does not make sense at all. So God knows, because God caused.

    This theory of predestination is the only thing that makes sense, but it violates a higher law.... The one you described. The Royal Law of Love.
    This is why its an extremely serious matter to obey God and do what you said you would do and do what God told you to do. God does not have foreknowledge but what is in your heart and past actions, nor does God have predestination.

    Every person created was created with a plan and a predestined path. You find the Path, obey and God can tell you exactly where you will be and what you will be doing in 20 years. He knows because he had predestined that path for you ahead of time before you were born.

    This is why we are warned to stay the course, run the race, Stay on the path of righteousness because off the path it's dark and bad things can happen. Off God's path people run into things God never intended for them to go through. Gods foreknowledge comes from predestination of you doing what he said do. You disobey, you get out of Gods protection and path of light.

    This is long enough, I'll give two scripture example out of many scripture examples.

    And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
    (Gen 18:20-21)This is not predestination, not some foreknowledge (Study out cries to the Lord) God heard from above in the spiritual cry of something. He personally went down to find out though if the cry matched what was going on.

    This is a good example of how God always operates. Many do not like this scripture but scripture is sent to correct us. Having the Holy Spirit connects us 24/7 to Heaven always.
    Example 2: and why its very serious to obey God and do what He says do.
    There is a belief in the body of Christ that what happens is all the Will of God and obey, have faith, or speak unbelief does not matter but things just turn out the way God planned them anyway. This is deadly thinking.

    Gen 18:19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

    How does the Lord know? Because He personally knows the man in question. The man has proven faithful to Him and that is How God knows. Not by some forcing of predestination or some foreknowledge. Abraham drew close to the Lord and the Lord drew close to him.
    Gen_22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

    When did God know? When Abraham was going to sacrifice his only son to Him. This gave God legal grounds to send His son for men, and why we are the seed of Abraham.
    A person may repent and sin again and repent............ Fine be forgiven, but don't equate forgiveness with being blessed or ever seeing the plan of God in your life. God knows by trust and faithfulness, and if a person can't stop sinning then God can't give more to someone unfaithful and someone He can't trust. People wonder why they struggle year after year................... ummmm.

  4. Okay. I read it very carefully again. Actually this was one of your posts that confused me. When you say "This is the Calvinist argument", what part are you talking about? The previous 4 paragraphs? I was getting the feeling that you were laying out your own view of predestination and foreknowledge because what you were describing is not the Calvinism I'm familiar with.

    And I'm not sure that this addressed by original question: in your view, how does evil work in the world?
  5. Calvinism at its very start and core states that God predestines everything. Man has no free will. John Calvin in the later years backed off this very hard stance, but many of his colleges stayed on the hyper side of it.

    Hyper Calvinist do not support at all Molinism or Arminianism because God's foreknowledge could only come from God being in control of his creation. So therefore it's not foreknowledge but predestination. That is the battles I have seen over the last many years about predestination and foreknowledge.

    There is of course people that flip flop and watered down versions of all doctrines. Most churches hold both very loosely for whatever which one fits for the moment. Even my church I have heard it and I try to stay out of that type of thing.


    Pastor tells joe to stop chasing women and drinking. Pastor tells Joe that no good can come of it. Joe gets caught one day drunk and the husband of the Wife Joe was with shoots Joe.

    Pastor preaches that God in His divine and mysterious ways call Joe home early. We don't always understand these things.

    This is normally what happens, this flip flop of beliefs. Joe's Fault, God's Fault.

    Big question and to answer it would take lots of scriptures and walking you through. I will take the time to do that if interested.
    I will give the brief of it though.

    First lets clear the Record for our Great Heavenly Father who does no evil.

    For he doth not afflict willingly nor grieve the children of men.
    Eze_33:11 Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

    God does not afflict Willingly............ (It's never his will to do so)
    God takes zero pleasure in even the wicked dying. God hates death.

    No, God did not give the devil permission to murder Jobs kids either........ otherwise a whole lot of scriptures are wrong, and we know the Word is perfect.

    Evil through Judgement:
    Scripture says God murdered David's baby by making the child sick.
    And the list goes on for things God said he did to people in the OT............. not so much though after Psalms and there is a reason for that. It changed to I God will turn my back and allow, which it always has been.

    God had to judge in the OT. Jesus had yet come and men would have gotten way out of hand wicked. Judgement gave the devil a place.
    Go study who is the one equipped to reign fire down on folks................. Mr. Devil.

    In fact, it was through God's judgement that God used the devil. If people would not obey God, then God said sic em.

    We see this in both counts of David numbering the troops. One account says it's God who caused David to number the troops the other account it says Satan is the one that caused David to number the troops. (Both accounts are correct)

    If you read what was in David's heart, David was going to number them troops regardless so by God's judgement, it gave the devil a place. The devil did not just run over God to get to God's people. Satan is not that stupid.

    Evil because the Devil is a Butt head:

    Satan kills, steals and destroy wherever He has a place to do so. that is why he walks around "AS" a roaring lion trying to seek who he can devour. Not all of us can be touched by him so he keeps seeking.
    Jesus talked about the wall (Tower) that fell Siloam. He asked the question, "Do you think those 18 were the worse sinners in all of Jerusalem?"

    Jesus said, "Nope, and if you don't repent you can also perish."

    Those without God are not protected and without hope in this world. (Luke 10:19, Eph 2:12)

    So those that don't know God, or kids who do not have at least one Parent in covenant with God only live here day by day by a miracle.

    My own son:

    My own son had terminal cancer. Nothing they could do in Chicago Memorial Hospital for Children. At the time I believed my Son was in the hands of some of the best doctors on the planet. (Ranked 8th at the time I think for children's cancer wards)

    Nothing they could do and I was told it after just 8 days of my son being there that he would not live through the night to see the 9th day.

    I was serving God, doing all I knew to do, but trouble still came....... (Half Job quote) One thing I did not have that Job did was constant fear of loosing my child. I had a covenant with God.

    God did not cause my son to get sick, did not allow it, had nothing to do with it. No more than God caused the flood to sweep over the house on the Rocks and the house on the sand.

    It's not the tragedy that really matters. It's who you know, trust and believe in. That is what matters. Just like the giants were never the problem for Israel.

    so, I was attacked by Mr. Devil the butt head. He went after my son.

    Judgement for the Body of Christ:
    God is not judging the sinner (They are already judged) , but we are judged. I won't go into it, but there is a judgement that will kill us and we don't want any part of that so that we might not be condemned with the World. Not Gods best at all but it beats hell.

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  6. God knows how to try those he loves, and who love him to test their Faith that they are willing to walk the walk as well as talk the talk. This is scriptual. When the a Bible tells us " I will try men as fine Gold" God is talking about " Fiery Trials" that is how Gold is made pure.
  7. Once again, another believer has a sincere, valid, and important question and a couple of people somehow turn into a doctrinal argument that ends up not even being related to the original question. How has any of this helped this young believer. Drop your rocks, take up your cross, and build up each other.
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  8. I believe she has her answer. So I will close this thread.
    Kayte likes this.
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