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Why We Should Prove All Things By Scripture

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Enow, Oct 16, 2012.

  1. This is proof that we are not to take everything that has been handed down to us as a teaching from the church, or the church fathers, or from "Biblical scholars" to be scriptural. We are to test all things by the scripture.

    The verses responsible for this errant assumption that Lucifer was Satan's former name is given here.

    Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. 15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. 16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. 20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

    To put this in context: the above is actually a proverb being given to the king of Babylon.

    Isaiah 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

    Everything that is written in context is regarding that king of Babylon. It testifies to that king that he will die, but worse than any other famous king on earth because he will not be given a grave to be remembered by. Now there is no way that is being attributed to Satan at all.

    http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/B23C014.htm

    At the link above is Strong's Concordance to Isaiah 14th chapter.

    If you click on heaven in verse 12, we will find this text: "shamayim" with this meaning:
    So this fall isn't from God's abode, but the sky where the stars are at. All the words in that quoted part of the proverb is referring to the sky as the location as described in verse 13 above.

    If you click on "Lucifer" in verse 12, we will find this text "heylel" with this meaning:

    One can say that Lucifer was a reference to the planet Venus which is a fixed star that can be seen in the morning. The naming of that star would probably be the same thee way we name the "North Star". Anyway, the reference is symbolic to the lofty evil boastings that the king of Babylon was making of himself from which he will and did fall from such lofty and vain grandeur.

    This is proof that we are not to take everything that has been handed down to us as a teaching from the church, or the church fathers, or from "Biblical scholars" to be scriptural. We are to test all things by the scripture.

    So do take this as a prompting from the Lord to not accept everything your church has taught you in blind faith or what general trivia going around in the world is telling us at face value.

    Lucifer was not Satan's former name when it was from a proverb addressing the king of Babylon, and it was because of his evil boastings which he had made known to mankind and thus to God for God to respond that caused the king of Babylon to fall from.

    This is the reason why believers should test and prove all things taught to them by the "Biblical scholars". This false teaching of Lucifer being Satan's former name would not have gotten far if believers actually had read that in context, seeing it as a proverb to the king of Babylon.
     
  2. I am sorry that I have to do this Enow, but I have to disagree with you on your comment above.

    I do understand your thinking and also from its source from the website you posted.

    BUT, if we are to focuse the context on the "King of Babylon" and you are correct in what 14:4 says.............
    but is that the king of Bablylon to which Isiah was spaeking of or some other time and place?????

    Consider Isaiah 13:19-22........
    And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, The beauty of the Chaldeans’ pride, Will be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. It will never be inhabited, Nor will it be settled from generation to generation; Nor will the Arabian pitch tents there, Nor will the shepherds make their sheepfolds there. But wild beasts of the desert will lie there,
    And their houses will be full of owls; Ostriches will dwell there, And wild goats will caper there. The hyenas will howl in their citadels, And jackals in their pleasant palaces. Her time is near to come, And her days will not be prolonged.”

    We can clearly see that "Babylon" is actually a city, a great city that was never rebuilt even unto this day. We know that it will be rebuilt from reading the Revelation but not on the ancient site of its original location. It will be rebuilt and then destroyed in one hour according to the Revelation 18.

    Have you considered the idea that the Antichrist will rule the world from that rebuilt city??????????

    CONTEXT!

    Look and study Isaiah 14>1-2.......
    "For the Lord will have mercy on Jacob, and will still choose Israel, and settle them in their own land. The strangers will be joined with them, and they will cling to the house of Jacob. Then people will take them and bring them to their place, and the house of Israel will possess them for servants and maids in the land of the Lord; they will take them captive whose captives they were, and rule over their oppressors."

    Doesnt, this verse carry us down to the end of time? God has said over and over that Israel will be restored back into the LAND. Didn't that actually happen on May 14, 1948???? Isreal is back in the Land!!!

    Isaiah 14:3.....
    "It shall come to pass in the day the Lord gives you rest from your sorrow, and from your fear and the hard bondage in which you were made to serve".

    The Jews have sorrow in the Land today and they live in fear. Today there is no rest for them.

    Isaiah 14:4.....
    "that you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say: How the oppressor has ceased,
    The golden city ceased!"

    IMO....."Babylon" in this passage then represents the great enemy in the last days who will be centered in Babylon. It represents all the enemies of Israel and Babylon was an inveterate hater of Israel.

    Isaiah 14:5-11 is a song of triunph over this city of Bablon. This is a picture of the judgment to come and that judgment is outlined specifically in Revelation 18. Judgment is on the way and after the judgment then Israel will have REST in the Land.

    Now with that as CONTEXT we come to your verse in Isaiah 14:12.......
    “How you are fallen from heaven,
    O Lucifer, son of the morning!
    How you are cut down to the ground,
    You who weakened the nations!"

    IMO........Lucifer is certainly none other that Satan.

    He, Satan is the real power behind Babylon just as he was in Ezekiel 28 and Tyre. Thus Isaiah uses the fall of Satan which is an assumed fact, to illustrate the judgment and fall of the Babylonian king.
     
  3. It's okay, Major.

    A question: how can this descriptive fate be given to Satan?

    Isaiah 14:4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!....9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us? 11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!...

    16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms; 17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners? 18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house. 19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet. 20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned. 21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities. 22 For I will rise up against them, saith the Lord of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the Lord.
    No burial for Satan and his dead body will have worms covering his body? His name and his remnants will cease?

    Sounds like it was addressed to the King of Babylon after all.
     
  4. Major,

    If I may expound on this point from the last post: I understand prophesy can be hidden in the OT, and thus can have a fulfillment in the future. That is how the prophesies regarding the Christ are found in the OT.

    But in context as you say: I do not see the "proverb" to be given to the king of Babylon as holding a hidden prophesy. It cannot apply to Satan since he is at this moment, still accusing the brethren in Heaven night and day.

    Revelation 12:10And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. 11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

    Satan's total banishment from Heaven is yet future which will be at the pre tribulational rapture event when the door to Heaven is closed to the devil because of the Marriage Supper, thus telltaling the devil that he has a short time left before Christ's return to the earth with the saints for which the devil will wage war on the saints that got left behind and the new saints in the great tribulation after seeing the Bridegroom at His appearing. That is why "the voice of the bride and bridegroom" was no longer heard in fallen Babylon because the door to the Marriage Supper is shut.

    Some contend that "lucifer" was the latin derivative that got translated into the verse. Scholars contend that it is referring to the planet Venus. The idea of that reference is in regards to the king's lofty boast as if he will never be removed, and yet it goes to the significance of his punishment in that in spite of all the other previous kings that have tombs and memorials, this particular king will not have one.
     
  5. Enow.......I believe the referrance to Lucifer is certainly to Satan himself. The real issue IMO of interpretation in Isiaiah 14:12-23 is whether Satan is to be viewed as LITERAL, as the referent of the prophecy in those verses, or whether he is to be viewed as the power behind the throne of the Babylonian king.

    I think it is very probable that it is Satan himselfbecause of the personal pronoun of "I" which is used 5 times to emphasize the selfish determination of Satan or even the Satan empowered men to replace God.

    But that is just me. Then there is the fact that the name "LUCIFER" is really Roman and not Babylonian for the meaning of "Morning Star. That fact seems to show that the morning star speedily disappears before the far greater splendor of the rising sun, hence through Satan may appear as an angel of light, he will be banished to outer darkness by the coming of Christ.
     
  6. You are very correct. Most all prophecies had a "NEAR VIEW" and a "FAR VIEW". Prophets spoke to an immediate concern and also down the road of the future as well.
     
  7. Not ALL things will be confirmed in today's scriptures. What we can know, is that if what we think God tells us is contradicted in scripture, then it isn't from God.
     
  8. 1 Thess. 5:21
    ""Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good."

    I wonder what that means???

    We live in days when the text before your eyes is one of the first importance. The truths it contains are especially truths for the times.

    There were three great doctrines or principles which won the battle of the Protestant Reformation. These were first, the sufficiency and supremacy of Holy Scripture:—secondly, the right of private judgment and thirdly, justification by faith only, without the deeds of the law.

    This is the principle laid down in the eighth chapter of Isaiah, 19th verse. These words were written, remember, at a time when God was more immediately King over His Church, and had more direct communication with it than He has now. They were written at a time when there were men upon earth who had direct revelations from God. Yet what does Isaiah say? "When they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them." If this be not private judgment what is?

    This again is the principle laid down by our Lord Jesus Christ in the Sermon on the Mount. Remember what He says:— "Beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruit." (Matt. 7: 15.) How is it possible that men shall know these false prophets, except they exercise their private judgment as to what their fruits are?

    This is the practice you find commended in the Bereans, in the Acts of the Apostles. They did not take the Apostle Paul's word for granted, when he came to preach to them. You are told, that they searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so," and "therefore," it is said, "many of them believed." (Acts 17:11-12.)

    This is the spirit of the advice given in 1 Cor. x. 15, "I speak as unto wise men; judge ye what I say;" and in Coloss. 2. 18,— "Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit:" and in 1 John 4: 1,—"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they are of God:" and in 2 John 10,—"If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house."

    If these passages do not recommend the use of private judgment, I do not know what words mean. To my mind they seem to say to every individual Christian, "Prove all things."
     
  9. What Paul states, IN CONTEXT is; 19 Do not quench the Spirit. 20 Do not treat prophecies with contempt 21 but test them all; hold on to what is good, 22 reject every kind of evil.

    Testing is not the same as proving. The test will be if God's existing words do NOT contradict something. As our walk is personal, we will know if it applies to us or not. Just exactly how did Luke come up with the knowledge he supplied in Heb 13:2? God told him, that's how.
     
  10. I am not sure I understand what you are trying to say here.

    The CONTEXT of the verses in 1 Thess 5 is actually an exhortation to the brethren.

    1 Thess. 5:12...
    "And we beseech you brethren, to know them which labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you, and to esteem them very highly in love for their work's sake. And be at peace among yourselves".

    Verse 14 - 24 then are the explinations/instructions on how to do just that. So again, I am not sure what you were trying to say here so I will leave it at that.

    By the way.........Where does the Scripture tell us that Dr. Luke wrote the book of Hebrews?
     
  11. I know what the subject is Major. I was addressing your comment about proof. I can't really say it any plainer than I did. Sorry if you're not getting my words. Test does not mean prove.

    As far as the author of Luke is concerned, it is there, but not something easily found, just as the author of John was not John. I won't do into it here as it would bring this thread OFF topic. Look for me to start a thread on this subject. I can't remember where I have posted this topic before as I am on a number of forums.
     
  12. I apologize to you since my question seems to have caused you some irratation.

    Your comment just did not make sense to me and I guess it is me.

    It will be interesting to hear you disprove 2000 years of Bible scholars teachings on John and Hebrews.
     

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