Why Killing Babies Is Not Saving Them

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by KingJ, Feb 1, 2013.

  1. I know this is a taboo subject, but have you ever applied your mind properly to it?

    This is happening quite a lot today. Christian parents want to spare their baby a likely eternity in hell so they kill them early to guarantee them a spot in heaven at the risk of losing their spot for murder. Sounds noble and self-sacrificing. So how do you talk someone out of it?

    We need a simple answer for the world and Christians thinking about this.

    Do babies go to heaven? Yes! God is not dumb. A baby is incapable of rejecting God. We may be born into an evil world but nobody is created evil.

    Are babies guaranteed an eternity in heaven? No. God is impartial. If Adam and Eve had the devil to tempt them, all mankind have to endure that. Unless babies remain babies for eternity there is a risk to God that even in heaven as they grow up, that they, just like the devil and the fallen angels may decide to rebel. We become children of God by accepting the blood of Jesus (from true free will). It is the blood of Jesus that makes us adopted sons of God. God will not over-ride babies gift of free will. If He did then He would be partial. All in hell would have a valid gripe. God would be guilty of contravening all the scripture stating that He is impartial.

    When we put all this together with the understanding in Rev 20:3 of how the devil will be released to tempt mankind for the last time at the end of the millennium. I gather that babies will get their time too. It makes practical sense for it to be the millennium. I don't want to debate that though. But we must come into agreement on the fact that if God says He is impartial on all mankind, that that include babies too.
  2. Do babies go to heave...........YES!

    Are babies guaranteed an eternity in heaven? YES!

    Rev. 20:3 actually does not apply here King.

    The revolt of people in Rev. 20 is from the humans who are born during the 1000 year rule of Christ on Earth. These folks were NOT in heaven they were humans born of human parents and were never tested because Satan was locked up. THey live on the EARTH not in heaven so that is why I say it does not apply.

    When Satan is released, he temps these humans and they do what all humans do......SIN.
    autumn oddity likes this.
  3. I am 100% open to correction on this Major. Thanks for your post.

    As for Rev 20:3. My point there is just that those living on earth will be in a type of heaven surely with the saints and Jesus ruling. Then they are taken from this perfect position into one where the devil is there and we are gone. Surely if God will do that to them, God will do likewise to babies who go to heaven first and grow up?
    To agree with you I have to imagine there would be no kids on earth. Just like babies, they deserve heaven. They both grow up in a perfect place :confused:.
  4. I do understand what you are saying but in reality, it will never be heaven or a type of heaven until Satan is permanitly removed from humanity.

    I am not trying to corrrect you my brother, not at all. IMO there will be children on earth and because they have not reached the age of accountability, they will be covered under the blood. There is very little Biblically on this so what I say is simply my heart speaking out of love for all children.

    I used to be one so I feel for them.

    Remember, the Garden of Eden was perfect at one time until you know how slithered in.
  5. I've never heard of this practice of killing babies to ensure they go to Heaven. I'm sure there are a few people who are crazy enough to do that, but was not aware this was a common practice. Of course, in the U. S., we abort babies at an alarming rate, but the rationale is almost invariably secular. The spin is that it spares the baby from suffering poverty, abuse, or the indignity of being "unwanted." The real reason being that the parents don't want to be inconvenienced by the child. But I don't know about the rest of the world; is that a common rationale where you're from, KingJ?
    Lifeasweknowit likes this.
  6. Neither have I my brother. It sounds more like an isolated instance of mental illness to me, but what do I know!
    Lifeasweknowit likes this.
  7. If a baby is to be spared a life of horror pain and suffering from its early death, then its down to God to call that baby home, not us. I have heard a number of accounts where babies have died suddenly without any warning, but God told the mothers that it was the best insterests of everyone , including the baby, in long run.
  8. I personally do not believe that there will be any babies in heaven. Nor do I believe that there will be any elderly, any blind, any deaf, any lame, any paraplegic or quadraplegics in heaven. There will I believe be no persons disfigured by fire or any of the miriads of other calamities that befall humans. Why?
    Paul advised the Church at Corinth, 1 Cor 15:51-58. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

    Please do not misunderstand my thinking here though, I believe that the souls of babies will be resurrected along with all others the elderly and the disfigured who are saved. But who wants the job of changing millions of diapers for all eternity?
    Further, we read in Revelation: Rev 21:3-7. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. 4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. 6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

    Babies are, as we know corruptible and the elderly and the disfigured certainly are in need of a 'makeover'.
    So, I believe that all will be well in paradise. I believe that we will all be made new at a stage of development that is consistent with full functionality.
  9. I do think babies go to heaven, I remeber david saying he will go one day and meet his child that died... and youre right God is impartial, but it,d seem unfair to send an infant ,that had no oppurtunity to choose or decide for himself to make the right choice, to hell. I believe that when they go to heaven they'll be changed, they'll be made perfect..
  10. No, the common practice here is to kill babies for medicine. I guess it was more the media hype over the likes of Kelli Murphy, Julia Lovemore and Elzbieta Plackowska that prompted the thread, then actual stats.
  11. I agree with everything you wrote. So you would say babies go to heaven and are gauranteed to stay in heaven since they put on incorruption?
  12. I think the bible says enough, we just need to join the dots.

    See for me, this subject proves we have free will and God is impartial. As every sane persons agrees that killing babies is insane. ''Yet it shouldnt be for Christians if babies are gauranteed eternity in heaven. It should be the ultimate self sacrifice''. Atheists and the like are so easily able to get us cornered.

    Most of us never tackle this head-on. We always dodge it. Someone about to kill their baby is very likely not a theologian. They need a simple and true answer. The only answer that makes sense to me is that God gives us all free will. God is impartial. The subject of free will is answered at an extreme / absurd level in a sense.
  13. I think the simple answer in these cases is that killing a child does not guarantee them a place in Heaven, any more than baptising them as an infant. The fact is that there is no plainly spoken, ironclad statement in the Bible which says that any child under a certain age or who has been baptised, confirmed, or undergone any particular ritual is guaranteed eternal life. It is the ultimate in foolhardiness and presumption, then, to use salvation (in a broad sense) as justification for killing a child. The Bible does give us reason for hope in the death of a child, but not reason for presumption in taking matters into our own hands. We can be confident that God will do what is just and right, but what He may know to be just and right might not line up exactly with what we were hoping for and so I say again, it is dangerous to be presumptuous.

    But in Kelli's case and some others with which I am familiar, this line of thinking is merely to comfort the killer, insulating their consciences from the horror that they have committed. Their deeds were ones of selfish, pathological anger and their children were the victims of a great wickedness, mitigated only by possible considerations of mental illness. Plus, in Kelli's case, her son was 9. The Bible doesn't give us a hard age of accountablity, and a 9 year old may well be old enough to be accountable and, if so, she may have actually condemned him to Hell by killing him before he may have committed his life to Christ - a very sobering thought if anyone is inclined to be presumptuous.
    KingJ likes this.
  14. I don't see 9 year olds going to hell. I would place the age of accountabilty at 16-18. Bottom line is as you said, God will do what is right.
  15. I am sure glad that all judgment is given to the Son of God!!

    I for one do not know.

    My heart tells me that Jesus loves to be surrounded by children so I will leave it at that.
    Kevin likes this.
  16. I do know that at about 8 years of age I committed my life to Christ - not understanding all of the implications of that commitment, but understanding, I believe, enough to make that commitment. But, as I say, there is no unequivocal age of accountability that I know of, so I have no axe to grind on that point. I do know that God is just and, as Major said, I am well satisfied that it is He Who makes those judgements and decisions.
    KingJ and Major say Amen and like this.

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