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Why Is This Scripture So Hard to Act On?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Chopper, Apr 19, 2015.

  1. Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
    Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
    Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
    Rom 5:4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
    Rom 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

    Being a Christian Counselor for the past thirty years, most of the issues that I have been involved with is something like this.... "The trials that I have been faced with lately has me so discouraged and depressed I don't even want to live through another day."....How in the world can this person apply "We glory in tribulations" to their situation.

    The average Christian does not know, number one, about this portion of Scripture, and number two, how to get relief from their trial and tribulation. This is a huge problem not only for me, but for other counselors that I've spoken with.
  2. No matter what comes along to the child of God will work out to God's Glory. We are more than conquers, and no "weapon" formed against us can prosper. God will not allow us to be tempted above what we are able to endure. He always makes a way to escape. When we are "weak" that is when we are at our strongest!
    The more we are out of control, the more God is in control. We can never lose. Not only was eternal life given to us through the confession of our mouths, the confession of our mouth also brings deliverance from the flesh and demonic spirits. If you can control your "tongue" you can control your body and circumstances of life.
  3. I understand what you are saying friend. What you have posted is certainly relevant to the situation....My question revolves around, "why doesn't that work?" By the time a client comes to me, he/she has had lots of Scripture thrown at them and they have "name it and claim it" until their ready for suicide.

    I'm talking about the average Christian who has little faith and little understanding of scriptural application.

    You have made a very good point of the tongue. I am a firm believer in what you say about any situation. Positive speech, positive results etc. etc.

    There are times when my position is, I have to give them the answer that will change their situation, but try as I and the Holy Spirit might, nothing changes....It's like, a Christian will come to me and ask, "I want to fly like a bird" I respond with "You're a human, you can't fly like a bird." No matter how much I tell them that they can't fly, the more discouraged they get....My situation with this client is almost as futile as that.

    Why won't Scripture, and counsel from what I receive from what I believe is from the Holy Spirit work? there are times when this type of person who just doesn't get it, I have the suspicion that they are not a child of God. Could I be right?
  4. There is no doubt there will be those who have little faith, or no faith in the area for which they need help. This is ware if they can not believe for their own situation then those who are counseling them need to use their faith to help their situation. Just in the same way as the scripture says here.......

    James 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
    James 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

    The body of Christ is suppose to minister to itself to those who are weak in the faith.
    Cturtle and Chopper say Amen and like this.
  5. Ok, that's a good answer. In fact that is what I've had to resort to in order to bring any kind of help to this type of person. I am studying through the Book of Romans and when I came to this passage, these questions came up in my mind. What you just said makes sense when a person is in my office, but when they are on the web it increases the difficulty. I'm retired now from the public ministry of counseling so the internet Forums have become a major source of counseling.

    I thank you for your response. I would like all the suggestions that I can get.
    CCW95A likes this.
  6. The obvious answer is that to consider tribulations as blessings, we need to adopt the Lord's point of view. That being impossible, we need greater trust in Him.

    In life, maturity is required to continue efforts while delaying expectation of recompense. It is the same with spiritual maturity.

    And there is the longtime advice from many pulpits: "Do not pray for patience unless you are ready to withstand tribulation!"
    Chopper likes this.
  7. Well, I think you must begin in Rom 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.
    Do you have peace with God in every situation, or do you blame God for it?

    If you have peace with God, and I think that's different from God having peace with us through the blood of Jesus Christ, then you could rejoice in the hope of the glory of God. And if you can do that, you can glory in tribulations.

    So the answer isn't that you find glory in tribulations, the answer is you have to find peace with God.
    Cturtle and Chopper say Amen and like this.
  8. Hello CCW,
    Those are all attributes of what He has provided for us BUT this does not mean all will actually walk in them. None of those things just happen because we are His. Many Chrisitans for lack of underrstanding and knowledge of His written word walk in defeat and suffer more then they needed to.

    God can work in us but we have to allow Him to. Jesus left us His peace and not the peace like the world knows but far too many Christians never experience this peace. Why ?
    Because they fail to apply the written word because they fail to renew their minds and never get around to walking in the spirit. We have a big say and big part in this for it does not just happen.

    Blessings my friend
  9. #9 Cturtle, Apr 20, 2015
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2015

    In going through what i have been in the past week or two...i finally realized that God wanted me to praise Him in the storm. And the reason for the attacks was because we praised God for everything, and the devil wanted us to give up and doubt God. he was trying to get us to speak words of doubt and lack. An attack on our faith. Or as our pastor has said....shut up my faith mouth.:LOL:

    I know that another thing was that my time in the Word was lacking and God showed me that i was not walking in love and forgiveness like i should have been.

    I have run into many people who were kind of whimsical in their dilligence in the Word. The people of today, are so bombarded or preoccupied with things on tv and the busyness of life, that they make little time for the Word. They go from sunday to sunday..with no nourishment inbetween. Many are not aware of the battle of the mind and how to, like you said, put the scriptures into practice or to stand on them. Which really breaks my heart.

    The integrity of the written Word of God is down, and the enemy has done such a good job of desensitizing most of the body of Christ, that many just believe that either God is up in heaven ready to strike them down if they miss it, or that the Word does not really apply to us today.

    In a healing thread Abdicate used the verse of those who have it they will gain more, but those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away (Luke 19:26). And as i was praying, i believe that the Lord told me that this has been the beginning of the great deception of 2 thessalonians. I think that people think that the great deception will happen suddenly, but that is not always how the devil operates. Usually it is over time...using hurts, unforgiveness, people getting offended, etc.. which leads to hardened hearts, and confusion (James 3:16)

    One young man whom God has me encouraging, finally reached the root of why he has difficulty believing that what God says in the Word is true. It came from disappointments as a little boy. And for me, i have things in my childhood that God has been working on healing for quite some time, that caused me to see God improperly.

    But the sad part is that some of the people in the church, would rather hold on to tradition, and worldly ways, instead of reading the Word of God for themselves....taking it literally. Allowing themselves to have what it says that we have. I have to admit that before a couple of years ago...and still today, there are passages that say things other than i originally believed.

    Another thing is that the Word of God is a lot of times not properly taught. In many Bibles and sites online...the Word is not kept in its original meaning, or someone decided that this is what they think it means, so now it has become fact. And those people have paid for it to be the first on the list for the google searches. Or have been put in the front of a Bible for references to try to encourage someone who is depressed for instance, and the verses in my opinion do nothing to encourage ones faith or peace or joy.

    As i daily hold onto God, and have reached a place where my trust is in Him, and His Word...and His power that is working within me, i see more good, well meaning people, who are still trusting in themselves. Not realizing that its not about us...its about the power of the Almighty and His Word. Even Jesus relied solely on the Father for His Words and actions. For He said I only do what I see my Father do, and I only say what I hear my Father say. The only thing that we can do is speak His Words, and know beyond a shadow of a doubt that He fulfills His promises always. For His Word never returns unto Him void.

    Do you know that not many people do not know what God's promises are? The value of the law, is still more important to some people, over the Blood that Jesus shed on the cross. Earning salvation and the right to be called righteous is more common than being able to accept the free gift of salvation, and be loved inspite of our sins. Many people believe that people have to stop sinning prior to coming to Christ. Which is like getting cleaned up before taking a shower. I could go on and on, but i have been on my soapbox long enough.

    Sorry Chopper for hijacking your thread. It just kind of flowed out.

    Love you brother! And thank You for being who you are!
    Klub, Chopper and Fish Catcher Jim says Amen and like this.
  10. Yours is a good answer, thank you. The more of you, very spiritual folk, reply, the more I'm seeing that the average Christian can't stay average. They must move up to where you folk are. Also, as I meditate on what is being said by all of you, I see a principle of "reckoning" of believing by faith that there is an answer with what God has supplied and they must claim it by confession.
    Cturtle likes this.
  11. Hey folk, keep the replies coming, I'm beginning to see a spiritual strategy being formed. Thank you all so very much, as this topic is vital for all counselors to understand. Deliverance from depression over unsolved mental anguish that trials produce in the Christian must be found in holy writ.
    Cturtle likes this.
  12. Aww, thank you my favored Brother. That was a wonderful and informative reply. You pointed out several areas of importance. One was people not being in the Word of God regularly, too much TV or just being to busy for the Bible. Also, people who don't know much about the promises of God & Jesus.
    Cturtle likes this.
  13. Since I'm young and pretty new at this whole "adult life" thing, I'm no expert, but from the people I've talked to, this is what my experiences have been.

    In one of Spurgeon's sermons, he goes on to say if he knew 20% of the church was actually saved he would be able to sleep at night. Now take that for what it is, but from how many of the "average" Christians act, they don't get the idea of eternity, or grasp just how real God is.

    So for everybody, I like to start at the beginning, have them tell me what the plan of salvation and the gospel is. What their testimony is, and what God has done in their life. Surprisingly, many churchgoers dont have solid answers for these, or if they do, it is nothing more than a head knowledge of it.

    From what the person tells me, is usually an indicator of if they actually know the lord, and the lord knows them. Or if they think they know Him, but He does not know them. Its hard to put somebody's salvation in question when crisis hits, however, if they are truly saved, they will understand. If they are not, it may be the realization they need.

    If they are really saved, and just in a dark spot where the flesh has overcome the light of salvation, sometimes a recant of how they got to where they are is good. Forming a bible study, getting them back involved in the church, and general fellowship is always good. I know for me, it doesn't matter if you say scripture to me in a tough time, I need to make time and actually get into the word for the Holy Spirit to work with me.
    Some of the most powerful revelations people have is in their alone time with God, not in counseling sessions. Perhaps give them an hour with a short passage of scripture and have them write everything down that comes to mind.

    If scripture doesn't work at all, and they have hardened their hearts to anything the bible has to say, and anything that wise counsel has to say, then, in my honest opinion, their faith must be in question.
    Cturtle and Chopper say Amen and like this.
  14. Well my new friend, at 19 years old, you show more wisdom that many who are triple your age. Very well done and very accurate. Thank you for your reply.
    Klub likes this.

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