It would be nice but I'm stuck with the science sorry. I tried my luck with a god once and got nothing. No answers there for me.
Why Is Believing In Evolution A Sin?
- Thread starter Polly
- Start date
Maybe you attended the wrong church...or was introduced to a false god?
Thank YOU! Yes, we who are born again are ENTRENCHED! What a wonderful compliment!!!!
That means we are following the Lords direction in Ephesians 6:11 and YOU have noticed.........
"Put on the whole armor of God that ye MAY BE ABLE TO STAND against the wiles of the devil"!
We who are believers are called TO STAND or better said form you "ENTRENCHED"!
Praise God for those believers who are entrenched and have decided to STAND their ground. That is what we do. STAND, ENTRENCHED, blocking and fighting off the darts of Satan that would try to bring about heresy and wrong teaching.
There is the problem..........."a god". If you had turned in faith to THE GOD of creation and salvation, it would have been different for you.
It is not too late however. The Lord Jesus came preaching REPENT or you also will perish. You seem to be an intelligent person. I encourage you to consider the evidence and then make a decision.
Tubby........it is not a state of nirvana my friend. It is a calculated choice we make when all the facts are considered and weighed.
Listen tubby........and I am in no way trying to insult you but just to talk frankly with you. Now, in all honesty, do you really believe that you are more knowledgeable in science than are some of the people you are communicating with about God????
Do you actually think that you are the 1st person to come up with thoughts and opinions about creation and evolution ???
So then, let me say this to you and please do not get defensive and attack. I have spoken with lots and lots of people just like you who hide behind the curtain of knowledge and science. But in every case my friend it come down to something else.......SIN.
You are a sinner just like I am and the Pope is and Billy Graham is. We are all sinners and it is that sin that separates us from God.
It is sin that blinds our eyes to the Lord and His plan of salvation.
The Bible is NOT a book about creation but it does contain creation.
The Bible is NOT a book on mathematics, but it does contain mathematics.
The Bible is NOT a physics book, but it does contain physics in it.
The Bible is NOT a book on psychology, but it does contain psychology in it.
What the Bible is, is mans relationship to God and how we can be saved from the penalty of OUR sin. The penalty of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life and that comes only through believing upon and accepting the payment Jesus Christ made for YOUR sin.
Tubby......without question, our existence here is a mystery. There was nothing, then there was heaven and earth. Reason says that such an event is impossible and I think you would agree with that but here is the key to your questions IMO.............
Our Christian faith in God takes us beyond reason to the wonderful truth of what we believe is God's creation. Just because it can not all be explained or understood doesn't give credence to the theories suggesting otherwise.
If we were completely honest, we'd have to admit that creation is impossible to understand intellectually. Our minds are finate and restricted by our humanity and shielded by our sin. We as humans insist that there had to be a 1st before there was a 2nd. That is the result of our finate minds but God who is outside of time and space is not bound by those limitations.
Some will ask......why didn't God simply have Moses write all the scientific materials we ask about today in the Genesis account. Do you really think that the people of that day would have any idea what was being said???? God gave was enough to satisfy our wanting to know. We as believers are not without sufficient evidence from which to draw our own conclusions. God IMHO knew it would be difficult for us to grasp, so He left us a written record of what took place.
Polly, in science, theories hypothesis that have been repeatedly tested and never disproven. So it's not "just a theory," a theory here is a different context than you're used to hearing.
Many scientists are Christian. The sciences have a long tradition of religious faith (Gregor Mendel was Monk, and considered to be the father of modern genetics) and this idea that religion and science are mutual exclusives is a re-hashing of ideas from the dark ages.
Similarly, nothing in science denies the existence of God: Science espouses no beliefs about the Divine. Individuals do.
Evolution itself only speaks to the adaptation of existing Creation, not to the origins of Creation. Atheists and others who believe otherwise are simply wrong, and mixing up farcical hypotheses like Abiogenesis (life arose from inert matter spontaneously) with the theory.
All evolution does, like other sciences, is use and build on the God-given toolkit of empirical verification and rational deduction to explore and experience the wonders of God's creation.
Yes, I agree, the actual beginning is a mystery and seems beyond our understanding (at least for now).
The difference between us though, is you have (in my opinion) an invented deity that neither explains how this came about and also denies further questioning whereas I am open to further observation and discovery.
That's as best I can put it really. 400 years ago Galileo was central to a very similar, and arguably more controversial debate (by public and establishment reaction) that contradicted scripture but heliocentrism is now accepted, even by you I trust?
I do grasp what you are saying. We, believers must be equipped with the truth of God in order to stand against the culturally appealing philosophies that challenge our trust in God. To me, the creation story solidifies my faith in a Creator and allows me to share the truth of the gospel with others who get tangled up in culturally reasoned theories.
My gut feeling is that this is one of those things that will never be proven until we die. IF there is a God who created the universe and everything in it then BOOM. Our faith then will be validated and we will meet Him and be with Him for eternity. If we are right then those who reject that God of creation will meet the devil and spend eternity with him.
If not, then when death happens and there is no God as you suggest, you win the argument and nothing at all happens and my wife will put flowers on my grave.
Seems simple enough to me!!!
Always enjoy the conversation, be well and stay safe!
A calculated choice could still be a state of nirvana though, just depends how you perceive it.
By what I've read here in the last two weeks, I would probably say no. Presumably that was rhetorical though?
Obviously not. That was rhetorical again though I guess?
That's not objective enough for me, I am only a sinner in your opinion because that's how you HAVE BEEN TOUGHT to view the world.
I'm sure that means something to you but it baffles me in all honesty, I'm trying to think of an analogy that I can use to try and make sense of it but I can't. Can you explain this in laymans terms please.
This part is only relevant if you believe in gods really so it's pretty redundant for me, sorry.
Lots of stuff here isn't there.
I am not good at the copy and paste way you are able to post the past comments and then ad your own thoughts to it. I will do my best though.
Rhetorical.....YES in both cases. I just wanted you to know that a lot of people over the years have had the same concerns so do not think that you are on an island all by yourself.
As for you being a sinner being my opinion....NO. That was not an opinion and although I do understand that now, I did not do that years ago. When someone asked me if I was a sinner, I said NO. I said that because all of us classify our sins (mistakes).
Am I a sinner....NO. I have never killed anyone. I have never committed adultery. I have never , I have never........
I like most people have never done in of the BIG ones, (sin, mistakes)
But have I told a lie?
Have I looked at a woman with lust in my heart?
Have I always respected my parents.
Have I ever stole anything?
YES. We all have done at least ONE of those things and when we have done ONE we have broken ALL of them because they are a package set.
So, are you a sinner .......YES. Am I a sinner ....YES. In fact without a doubt I am a worse sinner than you are.
Now IF, IF there is a God I think you would agree that He would have to be perfect.
IF that is the case, He would have to live in a PERFECT heaven, correct.????
There my friend is the problem. How does an imperfect sinner, stand before a perfect God in a Perfect heaven.
You see, SIN separates God from man. That is why Jesus had to come and die as a human. He paid mans penalty for sin. Then by faith we accept that act of reconciliation with God and then we can live in Gods heaven.
BUT......if there is no God and no heaven, and you are right in your un-belief........none of us have a problem whatsoever.
BUT..........what if you are wrong? That is the question isn't it. Personally, you and those who reject God have more faith that I do.
Good stuff......stay well and stay in touch!
Tubby, let's just choose one of the laws of physics, the 2nd law of thermal dynamics, and if I remember my High School physics correctly it states the everything goes from order to disorder, so how could a explosion, which in it's self goes from order to disorder, go from disorder to order and produce stars and planets let alone physical life?
Do you really think and believe in your heart that if you gather all the elements that comprise the computer you are using in a pile that in x number of years they will come together to form a computer, man if you do you have more faith than I have in just believing in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now what I'm going to say is said in kindness and love, please understand that.
You said you once tried the church thing and it didn't work for you, you claim to be an atheist, but you have come to a Christian forum looking for answers, is it possible that before, when you tried the church thing, that you came to a point in your life, in your understanding, that God wanted to rule and reign in you life and because at that time in your life you didn't want to submit to His rule you ran away, there is a story about a man like that in the bible, it's called the prodigal, he left his fathers house to do his own thing, but nothing satisfied him, he didn't find the answers he was looking for so he decided to return to his fathers house and we read his father, when he saw him coming from afar, ran to meet him, to welcome him home.
I'm thinking, when you were doing the church thing there was a verse in the Bible that convicted you, that spoke to your heart, but you turned and ran away, but that verse has been hounding you all of these years, calling to you, maybe you can silence it for a short time with your intellect, but it always comes back, in those quiet moment during the day, when you start to day dream, at night before sleep put its out of your consciousness..................,
Our Heavenly Father is calling you to come to Him, you might think you are unique, but I can tell you my friend, I voiced the exact same arguments you have and so have a lot of the others on this forum, it's all part of the process that teaches us there isn't any peace or rest outside of God's house, .......why don't you stop running my friend and join us?
In His Love,
Gene
Do you really think and believe in your heart that if you gather all the elements that comprise the computer you are using in a pile that in x number of years they will come together to form a computer, man if you do you have more faith than I have in just believing in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Now what I'm going to say is said in kindness and love, please understand that.
You said you once tried the church thing and it didn't work for you, you claim to be an atheist, but you have come to a Christian forum looking for answers, is it possible that before, when you tried the church thing, that you came to a point in your life, in your understanding, that God wanted to rule and reign in you life and because at that time in your life you didn't want to submit to His rule you ran away, there is a story about a man like that in the bible, it's called the prodigal, he left his fathers house to do his own thing, but nothing satisfied him, he didn't find the answers he was looking for so he decided to return to his fathers house and we read his father, when he saw him coming from afar, ran to meet him, to welcome him home.
I'm thinking, when you were doing the church thing there was a verse in the Bible that convicted you, that spoke to your heart, but you turned and ran away, but that verse has been hounding you all of these years, calling to you, maybe you can silence it for a short time with your intellect, but it always comes back, in those quiet moment during the day, when you start to day dream, at night before sleep put its out of your consciousness..................,
Our Heavenly Father is calling you to come to Him, you might think you are unique, but I can tell you my friend, I voiced the exact same arguments you have and so have a lot of the others on this forum, it's all part of the process that teaches us there isn't any peace or rest outside of God's house, .......why don't you stop running my friend and join us?
In His Love,
Gene
Tubby, I am guessing something lead you to a Christian Forum - follow that back - something in you, wants to know God. I was graced with the greatest parents ever, and I learned my basic faith from my mother. If I were you, I would ask God for proof of Him but be very careful because the answers come, usually in your past life and strange coincidences, aligned with your current status. Don't look for a burning bush, altho you never know 
ROFL, Gene...Great minds think alike
I would also add that I find that science usually ends up, in the long run, agreeing with God's word. Evolution has not, by any stretch of the imagination, been proved in man. Statiticians say you would need more than 14 billion years to produce the man of today. And if evolution was really causal, why don't we keep evolving? I could use 3 hands sometimesTrying to visualise the big bang (theory) as an explosion is not the most helpful, it's more a singularity that happened at every point in spacetime, ie everywhere. As for order to disorder to order etc, that is a massive subject which I know a little bit about but you must include gravity in your thoughts. Gravity, as I understand it, started to create order because of slight variations in the uniform cloud of Hydrogen caused some particles to attract. This, over millions of years, started to form the first clumps of matter that were to become the very first stars (and then there was light, as you would say!). Very massive stars and very short lived, relatively speaking. Fusion takes place, lighter elements form heavier elements and so on. Eventually the stars end their lives in massive supernovae where heavier elements are formed. These remnant clouds then get pulled around by other gravitational effects and form new stars with different life spans because of the initial different gas composition. And so on..
Entropy is a better description of how the Universe is headed, a cold death as it is unfortunately described. That's the physics of it really and that's from my own words so if I made any errors there I apologise but I think I'm pretty correct.
This is such a massive and complex subject and is very much worth reading further, I started with reading about star formation and death (supernova) and it really is remarkable stuff. I can recommend a book if you're interested.
Physical life is aother story...
No not really, but that doesn't prove disorder to order if that is your point? Presumably you are hinting at creation here but as I see it, the fomation of a planet from a proto-planetary disc around a star is far removed from the engineering processes that go into making a laptop.
I doubt that somehow.
The replies I've had so far here have always been polite so I don't expect anything else (apart from a couple of sly digs about my education). I can quite honestly say, though, that I have never had any bible verse hounding me sorry.
This is a bit scary for me, I am unique of course as is everyone, but I am not unique in my general opinion so which do you mean? I appreciate your call to join you though, I really do, your heart is clearly in the right place and I am flattered, but I only want to talk with you, not convert. And I am certainly not running I assure you.
I usually have a couple of groups come knocking on my door each year (usually spring time) who want to show me why I should believe in a god and I politely chat to them a while and explain my position and that is that. They wander off down the street to try and take their god into my neighbours lives and I don't see them until the next year.
Can't say I ever remember opening the door to a bunch of atheists trying to convert me though.
That's me for tonight, bedtime. Night all.
I agree with you Silk, we have so many beautiful flowers here, when I look at them I can see my Father painting them, or study the wild birds here, ...there are so many creatures that need to have some kind of protection to survive, that if it were evolution they would of died out after the first one, yet they are still here.
Here's something I learned today, we know God collects our tears and stores them in a jar, but what I didn't know is if we put one of our tears under a microscope the salt crystals are in the form of a cross, chance(?), ...Not!!! Just plug that in to the story of Jesus weeping over Lazarus and Jerusalem, ...awesome!
Praise be to God from whom all blessings flow, thank you Jesus!
Gene
Here's something I learned today, we know God collects our tears and stores them in a jar, but what I didn't know is if we put one of our tears under a microscope the salt crystals are in the form of a cross, chance(?), ...Not!!! Just plug that in to the story of Jesus weeping over Lazarus and Jerusalem, ...awesome!
Praise be to God from whom all blessings flow, thank you Jesus!
Gene
I think how I described it is more or less the accepted theory. I stand by my statement. A singularity does not mean 'they' don't know what caused it at all
. Where you getting your argument from?