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Why Have You Forsaken Me? –netchaplain

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by netchaplain, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. “And about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?" that is, "My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me" (Mat 27:46; Mar 15:34)?​

    Did the Father momentarily forsake Christ on the Cross or was it just Christ, in His humanity, feeling forsaken by Him? I believe Christ, in His humanity, felt forsaken by the Father, much like in His humanity, Christ momentarily desired to avoid the “cup” which He was required to endure (Mat 26:39, 42).

    Just as Christ recovered from desiring to avoid the “cup” by saying, “O My Father, if this cup cannot pass away from Me unless I drink it, Your will be done” (Mat 26:42), He also realized the necessity of the Cross by saying, “Father, into Your hands I commit My spirit” (Luke 23:46), which is indicative that the Father was still with Him. Let’s also not forget that Christ was still the Word of God while He was on earth, which means He was and is omnipresent, in heaven and earth simultaneously. “No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven” (John 3:13 NKJV, KJV). Also, when considering this passage, “And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone . . . .” (John 8:29), one can safely conclude that Their union is always permanent. I’ve heard it said that the Father would not look at Christ at this time because all the sin in the world was on Him. I still fail to locate Scriptural support for this thought but I have found conflicting Scripture:
    “The eyes of the LORD [are] in every place, Keeping watch on the evil and the good” (Pro 15:3).

    To me, the significance of this issue reveals the desires of Christ and the Father to relate to us, to the degree that Christ became as one of us, in human form and nature. “For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin” (Hbr 4:15).

    The importance of place in these “earthen vessels” is to cause us to always depend on God and not ourselves, for all things at all times. “But we have this treasure in earthen vessels that the excellence of the power may be of God and not of us” (2Cr 4:7). “And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness" (2Cr 12:9).
    “Not by might, nor by power, but by My Spirit, saith the LORD of hosts” (Zec 4:6).

    It has been well said that “His Blood procures pardon for our sin and His Cross procures power over our sin (the indwelling old man or nature).”

    Ultimately, this teaches us to depend, not on our works, but on His atonement (Rom 5:11) and propitiation (Rom 3:25; 1Jo 2:2, 4:10).
  2. Seemingly far from the topic of, “My God, my God why hast thou forsaken me,” is the following claim of Jesus Christ:
    Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    Of course this is to identify Jesus Christ since many people claiming to know HIM, and yet here is His sharp rebuke to them:

    Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.

    Hence, for us to truly and clearly understand His seemingly feeling of frustration is in truth the opposite of what the Natural Man understands of it.

    1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

    (More for demonstration of the truth)
  3. Hi fil3232003! Thanks for your reply and God's blessings to you.
    Major likes this.
  4. netchaplain, Sir, don't you want me to continue what God has revealed through His very words why Jesus said, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

    I suppose many participants on this Forum would like to "hear" God's revelation, not from any man, on the subject.
  5. G'day NetC,
    Now let me see if we can work through this a bit more slowly.
    You say, and I agree 100%
    I mean if it had been me, I'd have been at Tel Aviv airport waiting for the first flight out of there.:)

    But seriously, I would be one who would subscribe to the idea that the Father turned His face away from Jesus. I don't see the Proverb you quoted as undermining this understanding, because of the unique relationship that Jesus as the son of man had with his heavenly Father. For the first time in his experience, he was separated from the Father while carrying our sins. As I understand things, Jesus took the penalty for our sins on himself. And I understand that penalty is the second death; which in turn is eternal separation from God. Of course in Jesus' case the separation could not be eternal because his death was fully accepted as full payment for our sins. Acts 2:24. Just a quick explanation here though.. normally when referring to Jesus using pronouns I use uppercase, but here I have used lowercase to signify that all my comment is in respect of Jesus' humanity.
    Over to you.
  6. No, I don't believe God was forsaking Jesus; not even for a moment.

    "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee" (Hebrews 12:5).

    I believe the 'humanity' of Jesus felt forsaken because of all our sin He took upon Himself.

    "For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses,
    but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin" (Hebrews 4:15).
  7. I do think we need to consider just what penalty it was that Jesus paid. Heb 9:27,28.
    Since we all die once, Jesus has not taken away that first death.
    We are going to have to wear that one ourselves.
    But for those who love Him and wait for His salvation to deliver them, there will be no second death Rev 2:11, Rev 20:6,14. Rev 21:8. That's the one to be avoided:eek:
    That second death will be eternal separation from God. That does not mean that Prov 15:3 will be of no effect.
    There are many who have died absolutely awful agonizing deaths, but that does not mean that their deaths were comparable with what Jesus went through on our behalf. I don't believe it was the first death of Jesus that brought salvation to us, it was the payment of the ultimate penalty. But that's just what I believe.

  8. I appreciate everyone's input and God's blessings to you!

    We also must know that Christ's fulfillment of the Law wasn't what saved us. His fulfilling the "righteous requirements of the Law" was to confirm Him to be an acceptable and perfect sacrifice, which brought atonement!
    Kevin likes this.
  9. "Why hast thou foresaken me"????

    We find the answer in Psalms 22.

    It opens with these words..............."My God, My God, why hast thou foresaken me? Why art thou so far away from helping me. and from the words of my roaring?"

    The answer then comes in verse #3.............."BUT THOU ART HOLY".

    When my sin was put upon Jesus, God had to withdraw. Our Savior had to be excuted if He were going to take away my sins.
  10. God said, "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee" and I believe that goes for Jesus as well.
    I also believe that never means never.

    Therefore, I believe God may have withdrawn from our sin that was put upon Jesus,
    but I don't believe God ever withdrew from Jesus; just as God doesn't forsake us when we sin.

    Hate the sin NOT the sinner.

    I believe Jesus 'felt' forsaken ~ as we all do from time to time when sin is upon us.
    We feel forsaken, but the truth is God will never leave us or forsake us no matter how forsaken we may feel.
  11. I believe that as well. THat is why salvation is not based on feelings but on the finished work of Christ on the cross!
  12. I agree with Major, he was fullfilling the prophecy of psalm 22 and he understood God's purpose was holy.
  13. My take on the matter is that Jesus always had a very close bond with God the Father and was connected to Him night and day. When He took upon the sins of the world while hanging on the cross He felt completely separated from God. He, like us, had an inbuilt awareness of God's holiness and felt completely separated from God the moment He took on sin. I think if we never sinned and suddenly felt the impact of sin, we too would feel the incredible, terrible separation from God. God could not forsake Jesus because Jesus is God but Jesus felt the guilt of sin which in His mind and during His suffering made Him feel separated from God.

    A few times in the poetic books the writers describe their feeling and emotions, just like Psalm 22. The writer in a prophetic sense is calling out for deliverance from His suffering, emotionally feeling like God has abandoned Him. The rest of the Psalm indicates that God does restore Him, just not in the way in which the writer called for. Therefore God did not forsake Him.
  14. God did not forsake Jesus (Jesus would still be in hell), but neither did Jesus's 'humanity' kick in (Jesus surely knows and believes scripture teaching that God will never leave nor forsake us). What we see here is the difference in authority between God and Jesus. Even though Jesus is part of the Godhead, He is not God. Jesus, quite simply did not expect the feeling of complete separation from God. It was new for Him. Jesus said what He said because He was truly surprised (Just like Jesus will be surprised on the day God tells Him to come fetch us). How could God give Him a glimpse of complete separation? That He would be prepared for it.
  15. Quick theological correction here. Jesus is not the Father, but by the definition of the Trinity Jesus is God, the Father is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. The separation that Jesus would have experienced was from the Father. It's basically a nitpick, but an important one since the definition of Trinity is an important doctrine that separates Christianity from Gnosticism.
    KingJ likes this.
  16. Just thinking about this more, it is becoming a brain teaser for me :).

    God does not forsake us. But when we reject Him, we forsake Him and feel as though He has forsaken us. When Jesus bore our sins, He, like us became guilty of 'forsaking God'. That is why He said what He said. It was not unbelief in scripture. Rather that He genuinely felt as though God had forsaken Him because of the new state of a 'sinner' that He was in. It is tricky to understand since Jesus is the Son of God and was innocent, not deserving any of our sin.
  17. AMEN!

    In responce to KingJ in comment #14, please allow me to say A couple of things.............
    Quote is........................
    "(Jesus would still be in hell), "

    Not so my friend. Jesus was not judged and found guilty and sentanced to hell. It was OUR sins that He bore for us that were judged and paid for.
    Jesus did not go to Sheol to be punished therefore He could not have stayed there. He went to release the Old Testament saints and take there spirits with Him to heaven in His assention.

    Quote is.........................
    "Even though Jesus is part of the Godhead, He is not God".

    John 1:1
    "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God".

    That means that in His pre-incarnant state, Jesus was, is and is to come the very eternal God the Son. He and the Father are two seperate persons of ONE indivisible essence.
    Lest we assume that the Word as a distinct person less than God, John says clearly that "AND THE WORD WAS GOD". That literally reads as ....."AND GOD WAS THE WORD". The subject and the predicate are reversed in order to underline the diety of the WORD......Logos.....Christ......Messiah Jesus!
  18. I full-heartedly agree with what Bane said and the second part of your post Major. I did mention that Jesus is part of the God-head, but it does make more sense to think of Jesus as 'God the Son'.

    I need to study scripture more on when Jesus actually went to hell. I have always believed that He went there from our sin and received power on the third day to be resurrected. This is when I would imagine He set the saints free.
  19. There is no direct reference in Scripture to Jesus' descent into Hell. The indirect references usually mention Sheol or Hades and are mostly part of Revelation and Psalms. The only direct reference I have ever found is in the Apostles Creed (Or pretty much any of the creeds, whichever you prefer). Every reference I have ever heard of is not described as punishment but victory however, so I believe that is important to note.
  20. The two primary scriptural passages that appear to support the concept of Christ descending into Hell
    are: "Now this, "He ascended"--what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth" (Eph 4:9)?

    The "lower parts of the earth" seems to lend design mostly in reference to the grave of His body because, "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and nights in the heart of the earth" (Mat 12:40). Also, as the above states, there cannot be an ascension without "first descending". Death must precede resurrection. As for His spirit, Christ said He and the penitent thief were going to Paradise (Luk 23:43), where Abraham and all the O.T. saints already were (Luk 16:23).

    The other passage is, "By whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison" (1Pet 3:19). This one I'm also still researching.


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