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why *didn't * God forgive Judas?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by autumn oddity, Jan 3, 2016.

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  1. If he did I feel that would have truly highlighted his long suffering, nature..

    Judas was repentant... I just dont know why God would deny him...

    As well as create someone who's future is eternal damnation..he was prophesied as the son of perdition ( so this was before) knowing that .. Why would create someone you destined for hell?

    I just wonder why god didn't forgive someone who was sorry.
  2. If Judas hadn't gone off and killed himself, Jesus would have. You always forget that God gave mankind free will. Personally, I believe you need to learn of God's love and not blame Him for evil. What gain is there by blaming God for problems caused by man? He died for us, what more could He do? Please, please, please listen to this:


    If you like that then listen to a longer version:

  3. Because God is Sovereign and shows mercy on whom He chooses to show mercy on and hardens whom He wills.. Romans 9. There is none deserving of salvation. All are dead in sin and deserving of Gods wrath. So you are rt on your assessment. I would encourage you to study Martin Luthers "bondage of the will". Man is sinfully depraved and without hope apart from the free mercy of God in Christ. Grace and Life are in Christ Alone! Many unbelievers feel bad about certain sins they commit, but that doesn't mean they have a repentant regenerate heart towards God and Christ. Gods love is in showing grace to sinners in Christs death by taking upon the just penalty for His sheep (elect) for sin. His gracious love in showing mercy upon the vessels of mercy!
    Major and autumn oddity say Amen and like this.
  4. #4 Euphemia, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
    Did Judas repent? He had remorse and guilt, but he never repented. Judas didn't receive Jesus.

    It just goes to show you just how serious sin is, and how it stands in the way of a relationship with God. He isn't beholden to forgive people who are merely sorry. He is bound by His wo9rd to forgive all who receive Jesus Christ's payment for their sins.

    God is looking not for sorry, but for godly sorrow, which leads to repentance.

    2 Corinthians 7:9-11
    Now I am glad I sent it, not because it hurt you, but because the pain caused you to repent and change your ways. It was the kind of sorrow God wants his people to have, so you were not harmed by us in any way. 10 For the kind of sorrow God wants us to experience leads us away from sin and results in salvation. There’s no regret for that kind of sorrow. But worldly sorrow, which lacks repentance, results in spiritual death.

    11 Just see what this godly sorrow produced in you! Such earnestness, such concern to clear yourselves, such indignation, such alarm, such longing to see me, such zeal, and such a readiness to punish wrong. You showed that you have done everything necessary to make things right.
    Major, Klub, RDKirk and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  5. Euphemia, you are right in what you say.
    Judas Iscariot had remorse, but it led to suicide not to repentance, not to seeking the Lord's forgiveness, not (apparently) to waiting to process all that had and was happening.
    Interesting though, he was credited with being a thief and a scoundrel....one would think he would have pocketed the 30 pieces of silver instead of throwing it back at the priests. Wow such turmoil of emotion he must have had.
    Sadly, I'm thinking that turmoil will be his constant and only companion for all eternity.
    Major, JG27_chili and Euphemia says Amen and like this.
  6. I realized this.
    But I had not connected it to this verse.

    Thanks, much.
    JG27_chili and Euphemia say Amen and like this.
  7. #7 geralduk, Jan 4, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
    There is a line a man can cross and though he seek it with tears he will find no place of repentance .
    Esau was one.
    Saul another .
    Cain another .
    Herod another
    Judas was not created to do w hat he did .
    For one thing he was not created but BORN .
    and for another Jesus said "Sin must come ,but woe to Him by whom it comes "
    Judas had the same oppertunities as all the other disciples .
    "For God so loved the WORLD......"
    Means no one is excluded from that love.
    Judas was not either .
    But the promise is to who soever in that world believes on Him ........ out of that world
    Not to ALL the world.
    Shall not perish but have ever lasting life"
    The provision of God is for ALL in Jesus Christ.
    For God is not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to the knowledge of the truth"
    That is exemplified even at the late hour of the last supper when Jesus having loved them all loved them till the end and extended his hand to Judas with his own bread dipped into his own wine which was a great honour of the lord of the feast to extend to one sitting at his table.
    that showed HIS will. The Lords will. attitude and love . Which he did not remove or rescind from Judas.
    But The attitude and nature of Judas who unlike the others he had not allowed the Word of God and the love of God to change him if he recieved it at all did not receive it in faith .
    and instead of the love of God filling his heart the devil dead.
    it was no sudden matter either .
    For long before John had identified him as a thief not a lover of the poor .
    Thus it would seem that Judas love of money eventually led him to betray the truth for 30 peices of silver from which there was no return.
    Those w ho would seek to justify or 'forgive' Judas would therefore be seem to be more on the side of the devil than of God.
    In Christ
  8. I'm not on the " devil's side" .. Its just I feel god does more for some than others... I've read testimonies where god has stopped some from killing themselves..god does intervene in the lives of some but not others... But I do agree there is a line you can cross.
  9. Yup there are definitely vessels chosen for mercy and others chosen for miscellaneous reasons.
  10. Was not suggesting or accusing that you was .
    I simply pointed out that this 'question' pops up with more regularity than it ever did .
    and that it doing so seems to be in direct proportion as the growing lack of Christian teaching and understanding there is in the world.
    "the mystery of iniquity " as the scriptures puts it needs then to be treated with great care .
    But most certainly with a foundation firmly settled on the understanding that God is tottally good and his judgments are both just and "like the great mountains"
    The temptation then to jump to a wrong conclusion is or can be very easy about the nature and the character of God.
    To doubt that character and nature of God was the foundation the devil laid when he tempted Eve .

    Judas had the same 'equal oppertunity' as all the other disciples.
    You might equally argue that the 2 and half million children of Israel had also the same oppertunities as the TWO faithful spies .
    But where as those TWO allowed God to work in them and get Egypt OUT of them.
    The vast majority albeit seeing and hearing the same things in 40 DAYS while letting God get them out of Egypt did not allow God to get Egypt out of them,.
    Judas then saw and heard the same things as the other 11 disciples and even participated in miracle work of God . yet while beign called out of the world .Did not let the Lord get the world out of him.

    Man goes by the appearance God looketh on the heart .
    You look at one being saved and not another and assume? or allow the thought? that God is unjust ?
    This is never so.
    You simply do not nor I know all the facts in the matter.
    The FACTS of Judas are enough to form reasonable conclusions that LED him to that fatal decision to betray Christ .
    These things are given for our ENSAMPLE says the scriptures .
    That we may learn from them and not pay the same awful price by making the same mistakes.

    When Jesus said "you MUST be BORNagain" it was not a take or a leave it proposition.
    It is an imperative of God . Who has given to all who hear the gospel an oopertunity to be reconciled to their maker.
    Those who would judge God who they do not know to justify themselves who they do say well what about those who have not heard the gospel?
    In truth if you have heard it how much the greater condemnation is for you who then reject it than for those who never have ?
    If this is doubted the Lord Himself said that if Sodom had heard what his hearers had heard and seen they would have repented , and thus the greater condemnation was upon those w ho then rejected Christ and the gospel.

    By NATURE we are ALL predestined to be damned and go to hell.
    For we are born of a corruptable seed and as every seed is predestined to bring forth fruit after its own kind .Then so the seed of Adam predestined to bring forth corruption unto death.
    no man then has any hope for we are all by nature "children of wrath" and " sons of disobedience"
    without hope and with out Christ in this world.
    But the same law that applies to the corruptable seed applies also to the " incorruptable seed which is the Word of God"
    For if the corruptable seed is predestined to bring forth fruit after its kind from corruption to death .
    Then also the incorruptable seed is predestined to bring forth fruit after its kind of righteosuness unto life!
    By that it can be seen the honour and the privledge that Judas received .But did not respond to .

    For to be BORNagain of the WORD AND THE SPIRIT of God is to be not only translated from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of Gods dear Son . But also to be translated from one predestination to another .
    It truly is a MIGHTY work of God and so "great a salvation"

    Thus did Jesus say of it "sin must come but woe to him by whom it comes"
    Make sure then you are not the one by whom it comes.
    and instead of 'propagating ' lies sow the good seed of the Word of God.
    and instead of doing the devils will do Gods will.
    and instead of working in the kingdom of darkness work in the kingdom of Gods dear Son.
    and instead of beign a child of wrath and a son of disobedience .Obey the gospel and be a child of God.
    For that is the will and calling of God
    There is a refusal of faith . For Moses refused to eb called the son of Pharoes daughter .
    There is also the choosing of faith .But rather chose the aflictions of Christ than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a SEASON"

    in Christ
  11. How does a sinner become BORN AGAIN or regenerated? By the will of God or by the will of man? And where in scripture does it teach by nature we are all predestined to be damned and go to hell? What exactly is the definition of predestined or predestination according to scripture?
  12. God does do more for certain people than others, based on their availability to His service, and their yieldedness to His will in their lives. We shouldn't question it, but "rejoice with those who rejoice and weep with those who weep" (Romans 12:15).

    Major likes this.
  13. God is NO respector of persons. He will do very much for any one who seeks Him and puts forth His ways and word into action. God can do more with little then we can with a lot.

    Gods will is the very same thing for each and every born again beleiver. The will of God is His word and ways and is to all.
    Now then God has a plan for each of our lives and Yet it takes us to seek Him and His plan for our lives. Far to many Beleivers never get around to finding out what Gods plan was for their lives. Sad but true.
    ThereIsAHope, Major and KingJ says Amen and like this.
  14. Others seek God more then others.
    Some folks are bless having some one who knows how to pray Gods word prayng for them.
    Some folks insist on doing things in their own way and these folks reap from their own ways. God is under no contract to rescue us when we get out on our own ways. Heed unto my ways is a command not to be ignored. God is responsible to honor His contract with us - His Covenant with us. God is responsible unto His word. Step out side of it and well we can get our selves killed.
    Cturtle likes this.
  15. #15 KingJ, Jan 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2016
    I agree with Euphemia on this. Judas had remorse. Remorse can lead to repentance, but his suicide suggests otherwise for me. If he had sincere repentance I would imagine God intervening (look at Paul). I would not completely rule out the likelihood of him being in heaven though.

    God knowing, does not equal God creating people for hell. That is an assumption. A forgiveable one as we fully grasp omniscience / Rom 9. But not true because grasping omniscience does NOT mean you can grasp God. There is a whole bible outside of Rom 9 explaining what God does in fact do with His power. As Jim said Acts 10:34 'God is no respecter of persons'...for starters.

    God is as good as He is omniscient. We always need to add 1 John 1:5 into our 'grasping God concoctions'. It says there is NO darkness in Him at all. That is significant because creating someone for hell from birth is evil (just ask the unlucky fella who landed up in fire without a say in the matter). God is not evil.
    Major likes this.
  16. #16 KingJ, Jan 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2016
    1. The rest of the bible outside of Rom 9 tells us exactly whom He chooses to show mercy too. The ''whomsoever''.

    2. Thats not true. Not all in sin are / were ever by default en route to hell. God is not mad. People have to choose hell. They do this by loving the darkness / rejecting Jesus, the light. That is the verdict John 3:19. Jesus saves nobody from hell.

    3. The vessels of mercy are the whomsoever. Anything else implies God is partial. Partiality is evil. It is impossible to spin partiality into good. God is not evil. David is clear that we give thanks because God is good Psalm 136:1. This would not be the case if He were evil. Nobody would / should give thanks if God were evil.
  17. #17 KingJ, Jan 5, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2016
    Did God not limit His omnipotence on the cross to uphold who He is? Namely ''Good / absolute love / light with no darkness''. Why can't we imagine Him doing the same with omniscience?

    I want to propose to you that God would NOT have made us if He knew He could not go through with the cross.

    Let's just look at where the evidence points and not make assumptions about God. We can grasp creating things. Giving birth. Speaking 4d printed items into existance. This all does not mean we come even close to grasping God's existence. Who spoke Him into being? Likewise...to profess to grasp God because we can grasp the dictionary definition of omniscience....is rather hilarious.

    Judas chose to be evil. Pharoah chose to be evil. God hardening peoples hearts and the context of God hating people in scripture is one hell of a long topic for discussion. It also touches on Calvinism. So it may be closed early as it is difficult to discuss without bringing Calvinism into it.
    Major likes this.
  18. We are born evil and dead in sin. So we choose evil because by nature we are evil, and is what is taught throughout all of scripture. The carnal man is at enmity with God and cannot know the things of God spiritually.. We are unwilling and unable to please God or come to know God in Christ by faith apart from regeneration. Sinful depravity is our nature by birth. Man is wretched wicked and guilty before God. Repentance is preached to flee from the wrath to come upon us sinners. Righteousness is found in Christ Alone! It is God who saves! There's grace and life in Christ alone! So whosoever will, let them come! If one is broken and in despair over his or her sin and seeking redemption, let them fall on Christ! The promise of eternal life is to the believing.. That's not what's being disputed here.. It is God who changes the heart by the working of the Spirit and Word. And quickeneth whom He wills! If you deny your sinful depravity then you cannot see grace. Because u see yourself in NO need of mercy and a righteousness outside your own. If you deny election, you deny the gospel of grace. It is taught throughout scripture which the unbelieving cannot see apart from God revealing it to Him. It's hated by the self righteous who think they deserve a chance and a say in the matter. So who are you to question what God does with fallen man, as Romans 9 puts it?... Christ death for salvation was predetermined and ordained by God, but yet carried out by wicked men.. So is God evil? Of course not, man is responsible for his actions. This is a truth that must be believed in order to see Gods mercy love and graciousness in salvation. And as well see His hatred wrath and justice.. All for His glory!!!
  19. Please see post # 35 here http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/is-it-right-to-side-with-moderate-muslims.44234/page-2

    This discussion can go on forever and will derail this thread imho. Perhaps start a thread dedicated to discussing 'total depravity'?
  20. God is indeed no respecter of persons, yet we do see that those who are completely abandoned to His will and His service receive great blessing in this life. As our Father, He desires to bless us all in many wonderful ways, yet those who do His will and give over of their lives to His service receive great blessing over those who do not to that same extent. It has to do with us---not God.
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