Will not God accept professing "He loved us first" because at the FALL, man (we) can never be with HIM anymore. But because of "His LOVE", God made a "testament of salvation" that He executed, that now the "door to heaven is open" to everybody.
Who is the TRUE CHRIST?
- Thread starter grigoryamitai
- Start date
After the fall, man lost the ability to know the Lord because his heart (spirit) became dark from sin. It was through man's spirit that the Lord was able to have fellowship with man. The ability of man to contact God was lost, and his heart was to do evil continually. Man in this state could care less about knowing the Lord, so, for man to be able to have a choice and to know that God really does exist, God would have to reveal himself to man. Man was not worthy of this reveling by God, but because the Lord loved man so much he did it out of grace and mercy for man. This is why the Bible says, "for the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to ALL men....." (Tit 2:11) Without God "FIRST" revealing himself to man by his grace, no man could ever be saved!!
The existence of God is self evident by the creation as also to His power and goodness.
Man has no excuse for denying the existence of God or for "worshipping the creation rather than creator" See Romans.
I am assuming that you are a Moslem ?
For you say they were barrred from heaven .
While Islam teaches that the garden of eden was in heaven .This is nonesense .
For man was created from the earth and the scriptures clearly state that the garden of eden was on earth and was planted by God .They were barred from the "tree of life" which was in the midst of the garden of eden.
Your confusion then as to who Jesus Christ is as also to amny other things is directly related either that you are Moslem or else trying to reconcile Islam and Biblical Christianity . Or that the 'god' of islam which they call Allah is the God of Abraham.
this also is not true .
in Christ
gerald
gerald, I have no idea what you are talking about!! You seem to be confused.
Unless you are there, you cannot judge whether it is the Spirit of God or not. Judging from the outside is rash. Perhaps rein in the spirit of criticism and begin to offer up prayer for your concerns and thank the Lord for the body of Christ that must be very nigh unto perfect in your neighbourhood.
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The true Christ, the Anointed One, is Jesus, born of the virgin girl, Mary, fully man and fully God---God incarnate. The bible says so, and so I don't argue with that. No creed of man can say it better than He can in His holy word. Creeds seek to simplify the truth, but they tend to confuse. Read the word. Know the word.
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Before the foundation of the earth was laid.
A strange comment.
I was simply pointing out that many shall say Lord Lord and will be cast out.
Yet in the scripture quoted it is speaking about that or who declares Jesus Christ is Lord!
A reasonable observation then on the subject and an apparent contradiction that no one here has either observed or made the connection .
What you accuse me of then would seem more relevant to another .
As to your last comment I will say that my 'neighbourhood' is not perfect at all. There are on an awful regularity stabbings and murders ,corruption and rapes and one young girl was once kidnapped in broad daylight .
What is there though is enough good teaching of the scriptures in a church that does not blind you to your own faults or allow the increep or error and is seeking a revival not only for itself the church but praying for Gods mercy on this nation that once knew the truth but nwo is not only denying it but embracing those things it once rejected and is in grave danger of not only losing all its liberties but having "the last state worse than the first"
I am also aware that not all questions are asked as seekers of light . But of the "yea hath God said variety"
in Christ
gerald
Amen!
There is no doubt we are to "test" the spirits to see if they are of God, and no man can Jesus is Lord except by the Spirit of God. Any man can say Jesus is Lord, but no man can Jesus is Lord and believe it except by the Spirit of God. As for revival meeting, how many people are required that are truly seeking the Lord, or how many believers are needed at a meeting before the Spirit of God shows up? What if there was only one true believer there would Holy Spirit show up just for that one? I think so. This would tell me that just because we might find a Church were the Holy Spirit manifests himself in a group of people, does not necessarily mean that Church is doing the will of God. It only takes one person to bring God's presence there. We find to be true in the Church at "Sardis" to where Jesus said they were considered to be a "lively" Church, and had made a name for them self's, but Jesus called them dead! Yet they were not all dead as there were a few members who had not soiled their garments. These were the ones who caused that Church to be considered lively, and that made their name to be known every where.
It is not then a question of how many believers are gathered together. But what spirit rules the meeting.
As I have said before I know of a sincere and faithful man of God who was called by a church in NW London to pastor the church . He felt led to do so. It had not had a pastor for a number of years yet they all seemed willing .
Yet because some people objected to the length of his preaching they began to manifest their objections .First by looking at their watches in an offensive way . Beign the man of God he is he carried on as the Holy Spirit led him.
It got to the place where they began to stack the chairs while he was till speaking .
a rudeness to the man was the least of it . A grief to the Holy Spirit and a quenching of the Holy Spirit far more serious .
He resigned . Some one at the meeting of his resignation said "this is not the will of God" They were right . But whos will was done? If not the clique who 'ruled ' the church or was allowed to do so with no rebuke or reproof by any other in the church who wanted "the will of God"
The man of God left the church and now pastors another .
It is VERY doubtful if the other will ever get another pastor "after Gods heart "again. Though if that clique continue in their won ways they may well get a hireling or worse.
The man of God is still a man of God but men or women who reject the annointed preaching of the Word of God are never better for doing so and in most(?) cases far worse for eternity.
in Christ
gerald
Indeed, God is speaking in parables or dark sayings of old (Psalms 78:2, Eze 20:49). This is clearly demonstrated as we read the Holy Bible in the Old Testament.
Who cannot see/hear JESUS CHRIST speaking in parables in the New Testament? (Mark 4:34), example:
* The parable of the TEMPLE, that to HIM, it represents His BODY
* The parable of "LEAVEN", that to HIM not the leaven for bread, but the doctrines of the Pharisees and Sadduccess
* The parable of "FASTING", that to HIM "hunger for the word of God, but to Satan and people to abstain from eating food.
Plus many more
And so, we should have truly identified JESUS CHRIST, and this leads us to the clear identity of GOD. Hence, no longer to His rebuke:
Joh 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
Who cannot see/hear JESUS CHRIST speaking in parables in the New Testament? (Mark 4:34), example:
* The parable of the TEMPLE, that to HIM, it represents His BODY
* The parable of "LEAVEN", that to HIM not the leaven for bread, but the doctrines of the Pharisees and Sadduccess
* The parable of "FASTING", that to HIM "hunger for the word of God, but to Satan and people to abstain from eating food.
Plus many more
And so, we should have truly identified JESUS CHRIST, and this leads us to the clear identity of GOD. Hence, no longer to His rebuke:
Joh 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.
Joh 8:19 Then said they unto him, Where is thy Father? Jesus answered, Ye neither know me, nor my Father: if ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also.
How could Father GOD claimed the following? God is referring to "somebody" for saying, "I am he":
Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Here is JESUS CHRIST who was actually introducing Himself to the Jews:
Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Joh_8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
The JEWS for not recognizing JESUS CHRIST, they crucified HIM on the cross. Does not recognizing/identifying JESUS CHRIST require the "revelation of the FATHER", as demonstrated to Simon Peter?
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Something to think about!
Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Here is JESUS CHRIST who was actually introducing Himself to the Jews:
Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
Joh_8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
The JEWS for not recognizing JESUS CHRIST, they crucified HIM on the cross. Does not recognizing/identifying JESUS CHRIST require the "revelation of the FATHER", as demonstrated to Simon Peter?
Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Something to think about!
Today, we all read the Holy Bible and everything about JESUS CHRIST is available to us. Each of us has his/her respective identification HIM from the four (4) identities mentioned. This we defend and support our belief individual belief, fully convinced it is the True Christ.
During the time of Christ this is what we read, where the people saw and heard Him speak:
Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
Mat 16:14 And they said, Some say that thou art:
1. John the Baptist: some
2. Elias; and others,
3. Jeremias, or
4. one of the prophets.
And we read:
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not...
Really, truth never change.
Can we not see the "same trend in belief about Jesus Christ" today, except the change "in names"? We hear several "Christs" being preached today.
What people think of other people does not make them what they are .
Even as when people believed the earth was flat (they should have read the Bible) that did not make it flat .
So also then and more what people thought Jesus was and still or may today .Does not change who he IS.
Many a man may have an opinion about God or the Lord. That does not change God or the Lord. But if they get it wrong it does change the people .
If they get it right that too will change them. For" they who honour me I will honour " It follows then that they who do not are not.
Christ means annointed one.
There are many false annointings who do not speak of The Lord Jesus Christ at all but are their own witnesses . Who come in their own name and seek their own glory.
But Jesus said the Holy Spirit will speak of Me. and ye shall be my witnesses .
"He who seeks the glory of Him who sent him ,the same is true and there is no unrighteousness in him"
It DOES matter what you call the Lord . For the Lord has been given a name above every other and at His name every knee shall bow and every tounge confess that Jesus Christ is Lord"
and we are not to take the name of the Lord in vain.
and there enough scriptures throughout the Bible to show and prove how God views His name and will if needs must do things "For His own names sake"
You sir; are too man centered .Taking mans views and opinions far too seriously as if in these matters they carried more weight than the Word of God and the truth .
and takign what is recorded of mans words in the Bible and using them as a foundation for misapplied scripture.
in Christ
gerald
Even as when people believed the earth was flat (they should have read the Bible) that did not make it flat .
So also then and more what people thought Jesus was and still or may today .Does not change who he IS.
Many a man may have an opinion about God or the Lord. That does not change God or the Lord. But if they get it wrong it does change the people .
If they get it right that too will change them. For" they who honour me I will honour " It follows then that they who do not are not.
Christ means annointed one.
There are many false annointings who do not speak of The Lord Jesus Christ at all but are their own witnesses . Who come in their own name and seek their own glory.
But Jesus said the Holy Spirit will speak of Me. and ye shall be my witnesses .
"He who seeks the glory of Him who sent him ,the same is true and there is no unrighteousness in him"
It DOES matter what you call the Lord . For the Lord has been given a name above every other and at His name every knee shall bow and every tounge confess that Jesus Christ is Lord"
and we are not to take the name of the Lord in vain.
and there enough scriptures throughout the Bible to show and prove how God views His name and will if needs must do things "For His own names sake"
You sir; are too man centered .Taking mans views and opinions far too seriously as if in these matters they carried more weight than the Word of God and the truth .
and takign what is recorded of mans words in the Bible and using them as a foundation for misapplied scripture.
in Christ
gerald
"This we defend and support our belief individual belief,fully convinced it is the true Christ"
What a strange statement .
That a persons individual belief they are fully convinced is the true Christ?
"No scripture is of mans own private interpretation "
When a voice from heaven spoke .Some said it was" thunder " They were dull of hearing . Were they right?
Others with a tiny tiny bit of spiritual understanding said "it was the voice of an angel" Were they right ?
Or was the Lord right ? and what HE heard and others(?) as to what the voice from heaven said?
"I have glorified it and will glorify it again"
It might be argued that every man has a right to an opinion. But not all opinions are of equal merit .
But in the things of God was use is an opinion? Be it sincerely held and believed ?
Are we now to 'support and defend 'the opinions or individual beliefs of men?
above the Spirit of God? The Spirit of truth .
and what of Gods 'opinion' on the matter ?
Out of all the 4 things you listed which some said or thought who he was . Which one of them was right and true?
NONE of them.
Are we to 'support and defend' that which is not true ?
and by that then are we to support say a Moslem who thinks Jesus was but another prophet of 'god' Is that not also his 'own individual belief'? and by your reasoning then should also be 'supported and defended'?
Was it not Peter who declared "Thou art the Christ (the annointed one) the Son of the living God"?
and did not Jesus confirm it? and said this was from heaven and in all but name said it was not of Peters own private opinion?
Which then out of the 5 answers should we then support and defend?and which should we deny? and neither support or defend as to WHO Jesus is .
In Christ
gerald
God gave us our SOUL whose attribute are the "intellect and feeling". I believe this is what the Holy Bible calls "human wisdom" that God condemns in the following:
1 Cor_3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. (This must be in the eyes of God.)
1 Cor 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1 Cor 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God,,,
And so now, GOD still remains a great mystery for not having truly and clearly identified JESUS CHRIST.
1 Cor_3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. (This must be in the eyes of God.)
1 Cor 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1 Cor 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1 Cor 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God,,,
And so now, GOD still remains a great mystery for not having truly and clearly identified JESUS CHRIST.
I believe these are the steps for LOVE:
1st - Can we believe without knowing the speaker/person?
2nd - Can we trust without first having known the speaker/person?
3rd - Can we LOVE before the 1st and 2nd?
As we read the Holy Bible, in the OLD TESTAMENT Father GOD claims He is the only God :
Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
In the NEW TESTAMENT, the Apostles attest to the following:
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
1st - Can we believe without knowing the speaker/person?
2nd - Can we trust without first having known the speaker/person?
3rd - Can we LOVE before the 1st and 2nd?
As we read the Holy Bible, in the OLD TESTAMENT Father GOD claims He is the only God :
Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
In the NEW TESTAMENT, the Apostles attest to the following:
1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.