Who Is The Bride In The Nt?

Mr. Darby said:
II Corinthians 11:2
....for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
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Stan said:
the key word Paul uses is AS.
..............
The New Jerusalem is to be THE BRIDE and where God will reside. It's gates will never be closed and the glory and honor of the nations will be brought into it. Rev 21:22-27
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"as" is used in both?

Revelation 21
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The New Heaven and Earth

21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
 
Stan said:
Really doesn't matter where you are from Mr. D, English is English and eisegesis means the same in both countries.

Avoiding pointed questions only shows you don't really have any concrete answers.
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I gave you concrete answers as far as I am concerned. I don't see how you don't get it. Everyone else I ever read who claims to be a Bible believing Dispensationalist gets it, so I am baffled completely that you don't.
 
Mr. Darby said:
I gave you concrete answers as far as I am concerned. I don't see how you don't get it. Everyone else I ever read who claims to be a Bible believing Dispensationalist gets it, so I am baffled completely that you don't.
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Your position is that the Church is the bride, correct?
 
Absolutely, Aha. The city is not called the Bride, it is prepared AS a Bride. The small details of words matter.
 
aha said:
"as" is used in both?
Revelation 21
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The New Heaven and Earth
21 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
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NOT in the verse I quoted Aha. Maybe you should read it again, CAREFULLY.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
This is the most common perspective of Christians--Protestant, Catholic, and Orthodox. I don't think your answer was so far-fetched as it makes sense to me.
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Actually that is the whole point Lysander. Do you go with what a common perspective is, from people that don't really know but have been told this, or do you go with what the Bible says?
 
Stan said:
Actually that is the whole point Lysander. Do you go with what a common perspective is, from people that don't really know but have been told this, or do you go with what the Bible says?
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I go with the Word of God. The common interpretation of who the Bride is the mutual interpretation of the Word. I think you misunderstood me as saying the popular interpretation is right. Rather the popular interpretation is luckily a sensible interpretation of the Word.
 
Mr. Darby said:
Absolutely, Aha. The city is not called the Bride, it is prepared AS a Bride. The small details of words matter.
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Then I suggest you read the verse I actually quoted Mr. D and not the one Aha pointed out.
It sad you didn't use this perspective when you quoted 2 Cor 11:2. Funny how you agree with Aha but stubbornly rant at this same perspective I gave you back in post 17?
 
LysanderShapiro said:
I go with the Word of God. The common interpretation of who the Bride is the mutual interpretation of the Word. I think you misunderstood me as saying the popular interpretation is right. Rather the popular interpretation is luckily a sensible interpretation of the Word.
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Well you're not really committing to anything here brother. The UNDERSTANDING should be what Rev 21:9-10 reads; ....“Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

This is NOT hyperbole or metaphor, it is straight fact from the angel's mouth.
 
Mr. Darby said:
I gave you concrete answers as far as I am concerned. I don't see how you don't get it. Everyone else I ever read who claims to be a Bible believing Dispensationalist gets it, so I am baffled completely that you don't.
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I'm sorry maybe I missed them...what post was this concrete in?
 
Stan said:
Well you're not really committing to anything here brother. The UNDERSTANDING should be what Rev 21:9-10 reads; ....“Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

This is NOT hyperbole or metaphor, it is straight fact from the angel's mouth.
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I'll keep researching, though this is often interpreted as the fulfilled Church. Perhaps it is something beyond that. This would be a good thing to bring up at my Bible Study though.
 
Stan said:
Then I suggest you read the verse I actually quoted Mr. D and not the one Aha pointed out.
It sad you didn't use this perspective when you quoted 2 Cor 11:2. Funny how you agree with Aha but stubbornly rant at this same perspective I gave you back in post 17?
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You are relating the 'as' to wrong idea in the verse. It does not say we are in any way 'as' a bride. Paul hopes we will be presented "as" a chaste virgin. The "as" is in relation to our condition WHEN we are presented to him. That is one reason I would say that you are engaging in eisegesis. I think one reason that you do not see what I am saying is that you have already made up your mind that you are right, and no argument is conclusive to you. I learned a long time ago that you cannot prove something to someone who has already decided that proof does not exist. So, I will leave you to your opinion. I guess others can decide for themselves who is presenting a more biblical argument here.
 
Mr. Darby said:
You are relating the 'as' to wrong idea in the verse. It does not say we are in any way 'as' a bride. Paul hopes we will be presented "as" a chaste virgin. The "as" is in relation to our condition WHEN we are presented to him. That is one reason I would say that you are engaging in eisegesis. I think one reason that you do not see what I am saying is that you have already made up your mind that you are right, and no argument is conclusive to you. I learned a long time ago that you cannot prove something to someone who has already decided that proof does not exist. So, I will leave you to your opinion. I guess others can decide for themselves who is presenting a more biblical argument here.
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A bride is a betrothed virgin Mr. D, just as Paul uses the same vernacular in 1 Cor 7.
What I see is TRUTH in scripture, and I don't twist it around as I see fit to make IT fit my belief. Of course I believe I'm right because I am a workman that rightly divides the word of truth, as my signature implies. For some reason you think anyone who disagrees with you doesn't KNOW what they are talking about. How condescending is that? I have NO problem seeing truth in scripture, ALL of scripture. Cherry picking verse and then picking them apart is NOT how scripture works. I think you are to into your namesake instead of the Word of God.

God Bless you regardless.
 
LysanderShapiro said:
Why is it inconceivable that the bride of Christ is the church? Correct me if in wrong, but isn't the New Israel the church?
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It may be conceivable LS, but NOT scriptural. I don't know what you mean by New Israel. That is not a term used in the NT.
Israel is Israel. In Christ there is no longer Jew or Gentile. The nation has nothing to do with the church.
 
Rusty said:
I see "Israel" as all the born again before the Cross and after....not a national, racial or denominational entity.
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Matthew 15:24 is who Jesus refers to as "Israel". Obviously there were sheep that were NOT lost. I don't consider them born again, but according to Jesus they are saved. Luke 7:50
 
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