Who Are We?

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Peter Luke, Aug 31, 2017.

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  1. Ha ha, well that's a nice welcome
    Fish Catcher Jim and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  2. You can ask me any question, though I may not be able to answer you. So ask away.
    Cturtle likes this.
  3. Right! I recently got bumped from a Christian web forum, for saying that Jesus was conceived by the Spirit, but wasn't born with the Spirit, until near 30 years later at the river Jordan when the Spirit came upon Him. And their assumption for the bump was that I had crossed the line according to the Nicene Creed which stated that He was born fully God.
  4. Yep and I answered that twice on my profile where you left it.

    Perhaps it's time to shake the dust off and as one of my Spiritual Mom's would say....get over it. Lol that tends to work for me
    Cturtle likes this.
  5. Everybody does not have exactly the same beliefs as everybody else. If we did, then everyone's personality would be identical.
    The Nicene Creed is the rule accepted, and there is a whole history, and Scripture, to support it as to why it is so. Now I am not a theologian, just a stumbling sinner doing his best to not deviate off the path. A part of staying on the path is to find and discern scripture which supports the Nicene Creed.

    Matthew 3:13-16 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14. But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" 15. Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented. 15. As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. 16. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

    Jesus Christ became baptized by John because it was God's will that it should be done. It was meant to be for our benefit. It was the forerunner of our receiving of the Holy Spirit. John knew that Jesus was of Spirit, Spirit made flesh (incarnated), and even said that it was he (John) that should be baptized by Jesus Christ. But Jesus said it was now the time to do this because Jesus was following God's will. Then after being baptized, God said "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." Like Father like Son, Jesus Christ follows his Father's will in all matters, like we ought to be doing as well.

    Regardless of what may seem illogical to us, God's will is always perfect even if we don't understand it. This is why faith is so important in the Greater Reality of God. We cannot grasp God's reasons for if we did we would be God. The best we can do is not be reliant on ourselves (self-will and thoughts) but to follow the will of God unconditionally. This is the correct use of our free-will. We choose to follow God's will for us, even if it seems illogical, for we know that it always turns out better than we could ever do for ourselves.

    Jesus Christ as born fully God is the proper belief to fulfill all righteousness within us.
  6. Peter that would mean He got a double dose of the Spirit.. And if He was born with the Spirit, not just by the Spirit, why would there not have been miracles, before His baptism by John ?
    And How could He be tempted in all things, just as we are, save for sinning? It He was God at birth, then this wouldn't be a true statement!
  7. 17 and lo, a voice out of the heavens, saying, [1] This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.*n7

    Chapter 4
    1 Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

    If the Lord was filled with the Spirit since birth, why was it not till after the Spirit came upon Him at the river Jordan?
    The Devil would have lots of opportunity those many years before, wouldn't he?

    I am only trying to pin this down, rather that saying, well it was Gods will, and we shall never Know why this was so.

    We are to be of the same mind and the same accord. Just as 12 people hear the evidence and are locked in a room till they can come to the same conclusion.
  8. Jim I have nothing to get over! I'm am trying to get clarity on a doctrinal issue. That is all!
  9. In a lot of ways it comes down to personal opinion, and belief for many people. Many people choose to believe other than what the Word says, and as one person told me it's a matter of semantics. Which is a polite way (in my opinion) to say... I believe my way and how I was taught by religion, or my pastor or theology, and it does not matter what the Word says, or they either have no desire to look, or they only bieve the interpretation of whomever they got the information from.

    Philippians 2:7 says that Jesus emptied Himself of His diety and took on being a servant and human flesh. And in Hebrews (I Believe) it tells us that He needed to become flesh to be an accurate or suitable means of propitiation. The Holy Spirit could not go to the cross because He has no authority in the earth without a willing human vessel to speak for Him.

    Jesus was the only one who could fill that requirement. And The Father had to have permission or the right to bring Jesus into the world... and that came through or started with Abraham.
    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.
  10. Yes Cturtle, but being of the same mind and accord, is what is supposed to happen when there is a difference in opinions. And I also agree to his humanity before being filled with the Spirit, OR, they are right in supposing Mary was the Mother of GOD. Which I totally disagree with.
  11. True.. many are, but unless people make the choice to renew their minds with the truth, they will never believe otherwise.

    Does the Word say that Mary was the mother of God?
  12. Of course not!

    Years ago I visited my sister and tried to explain to her the need of the Holy spirit in ones life. But she was of a mind at what her church taught her that the Holy Spirit was only for the Apostles and not for today. When I went out to my van to get my bible to show her how what she had been taught was wrong, the Lord stopped my in my tracks and said.." Don't speak wisdom in the ears of a fool, for they will despise your wisdom." I had to leave her to her erred belief.
  13. Yes, as I have mentioned IMHO
    How do you know this? According to the bible, we do not know what was happening beforehand, other than that he was teaching scholars scripture at twelve.
    Luke 2:47 Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.

    Plus he referred himself as the Son of God by saying:
    Luke 2:49 "Why were you searching for me?" he asked. "Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?"
    He spoke as if he thought his human parents would have already known and accepted this. The miracle here is that Jesus was already referencing life from a Spiritual perspective while everybody else was referencing life from the flesh / body perspective. In other words, He knew he had a body, but was not the body, but Spirit. He understood this more so than at any intellectual level, for he was paying attention to his Father's will. But he also followed it to the letter, like a mustard seed which follows its God given plan in DNA instructions to become a huge tree.
    Tempted does not mean he abided.
    Hebrews 2:14-18 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil, 15. and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death. 16. For surely it is not angels he helps, but Abraham's descendants. 17. For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. 18. Because he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are being tempted.
  15. The Spirit was with Him, influenceing Him, but not in Him, as yet.

    So are you in agreement with those that say, Mary was the Mother of God? If Jesus was God at His birth, then they would be right in saying so. But that ain't the case in scripture. I believe what scripture stated and that is God made Himself a body, in which to dwell, so it could be shown to the people what He was like through Jesus. And that the Spirit didn't come upon the body of Jesus till the river Jordan. Where He was tempted to react as God in the situations instead of as a human being relying on the unction of the Spirit of God abiding in Him.
    Trying to get to" having the same mind and same accord "as it says in the Word....
  16. satan does not know God's plans as such.
    Matthew 16:23 Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns."
    So when satan heard that Jesus Christ is God's Son, he wanted to test him.
    Matthew 4:3 The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
    There is nothing wrong with understanding more, but sometimes we do not get what we want to know because we are not ready to receive it with proper understanding.
    John 16:12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.
    Luke 18:34 The disciples did not understand any of this. Its meaning was hidden from them, and they did not know what he was talking about.
    So, not everything will be revealed to a person when they want to know. Somethings are revealed by trials so we can learn from them. For instance, patience is only truly understood by practice, and not by suddenly knowing.

    Faith is believing in what cannot be seen at the time. Faith is the way to God. Much is hidden from us so we get a chance to practice faith
    The Greater Reality is invisible in comparison to this realm. To break away from this realm to see the Greater Reality requires faith _ the letting go of self (Let go, let God).The exercise of Jesus's temptations is for us to realize that we ought to...
    James 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
  17. BarElohim said:
    Right! I recently got bumped from a Christian web forum, for saying that Jesus was conceived by the Spirit, but wasn't born with the Spirit, until near 30 years later at the river Jordan when the Spirit came upon Him. And their assumption for the bump was that I had crossed the line according to the Nicene Creed which stated that He was born fully God.

    Hello BarElohim;

    I wanted to say hello and welcome to Christian Forum Site. When Jesus was baptized at the Jordan He was preparing for the temptations He would face in the desert. Jesus was sent by God as a human to live the emotion and temptations we face as men and women. Jesus laughed, wept, got hungry and weak, and expressed anger just like normal humans. But His point was faith and obedience to God's assignment. Jesus also gave us an example to trust God and follow His appointed mission for Him and us.

    Had Jesus performed miracles before His baptism by John, exposing His powers as the Son of God, then to die for our sins and give us the opportunity for eternal life would have been lost.

    Getting bumped (banned?) from another Christian site for "crossing the line" according to the Nicene Creed? When the Creed was signed, even two bishops who were present apparantly didn't agree nor sign. I feel your discussion was reasonable, received and no doubt pointed to Christ. Why this merited your getting bumped is beyond me.

    God bless you, BarElohim and your family.
    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.
  18. I have expressed my answers for you as I currently can discern them.
    Now I will ask you a question.
    What does it mean to you, if what you believe, is true?
    bobinfaith likes this.

  19. Yes BobInfaith, even the Spirit left Him on the cross to die alone. " Eli, Eli why have you forsaken me?" He had to die as a human being and give up the Spirit. He only ministered for a short while with the Father in Him, that was alll that was needed.
    bobinfaith likes this.
  20. I recall Paul, who visited Jerusalem to meet with the other apostles to compare his gospel with these others, to check and see if there was anything different in what He was saying compared to theirs......

    I guess the same holds true with myself.......
    bobinfaith likes this.
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