Who Are The Real Heirs Of Palestine?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by PetriFB, May 4, 2014.

  1. Palestine Israel conflict has been going on many decades. There is final solution to this conflict. When we understand all the facts, so we can understand who are the real heirs of Palestine.

    The whole article is here:
    http://www.kotipetripaavola.com/palestine.html
     
  2. the Torah, Qur'an and NT all say God gave the promised land to the Israelites ..
    so if a Muslim disputes it, they are going against the scripture they allegedly follow ..

    BTW: the territory known as Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 ..
    Amo 9:15
    I will also plant them on their land, and they will not again be rooted out from their land which I have given them,” says the Lord your God.
     


  3. WHO is the "WE" all through the Qur'an ???

    here is how they support their claim ..

    Surat Al-Mā'idah
    21 O my people, enter the Holy Land which Allah has assigned to you and do not turn back [from fighting in Allah 's cause] and [thus] become losers."

    26 [ Allah ] said, "Then indeed, it is forbidden to them for forty years [in which] they will wander throughout the land. So do not grieve over the defiantly disobedient people."

    Surat Yūnus
    13 And We had already destroyed generations before you when they wronged, and their messengers had come to them with clear proofs, but they were not to believe. Thus do We recompense the criminal people
    14 Then We made you successors in the land after them so that We may observe how you will do.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    LOL ..

    Surat Al-Mā'idah
    46 And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous.

    47 And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.

    48 And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.

    O you who have believed, do not take the Jews and the Christians as allies. They are [in fact] allies of one another. And whoever is an ally to them among you - then indeed, he is [one] of them. Indeed, Allah guides not the wrongdoing people.

    LOL ..
     
  4. so it would seem God reinstated the Isralites again, and as successors to the Muslim and so compensate the criminal people .. LOL
     
  5. #5 ixoye_8, May 4, 2014
    Last edited: May 4, 2014
    so it would seem God reinstated the Isralites again, and as successors to the Muslim and so compensate the criminal people .. LOL

    so they were only there TEMPORARY and NEVER received the promise .. (only to see how they would do) and as they say, the Torah and Injeel is true ..
     
  6. "Palestine" was a name given to the land of "Judea" by the invading Romans...
     
  7. actually no ..
    it was not called that until 135 AD ..
    after Hadrian repelled Bar Koba's rebellion ..
     
  8. BTW: in 7 AD Judea was made an Imperial Province of Rome and that was official back then ..

    Hadrian erected the temples first .. that is what started the revolt .. one to Jupiter (where the Dome of the Rock now stands) the other to the Fates (where the Mosque stands) he also did erect a statue (which is presumed to have been of him) .. Hadrian renamed Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina and Iuedmea, Samaria and Galilee providences were all combined together as Palestine after he crushed the revolt to "destroy their heritage" .. and then expelled the Jews under pain of death ..


    In 363, emperor Julian ordered the Temple rebuilt. A personal friend of his, Ammianus Marcellinus, wrote this about the effort:

    Julian thought to rebuild at an extravagant expense the proud Temple once at Jerusalem, and committed this task to Alypius of Antioch. Alypius set vigorously to work, and was seconded by the governor of the province; when fearful balls of fire, breaking out near the foundations, continued their attacks, till the workmen, after repeated scorchings, could approach no more: and he gave up the attempt. — Ammianus Marcellinus


    so before 136 ad and after 1948 ad the use of the name is incorrect ..
    because it didn't exist prior nor does it exist anymore ..

    hence Jesus was never in a land named Palestine ..
    nor is there a people called Palestinians ..
    they are citizens of Israel, who vote in it's elections and pay taxes ..
    they are correctly called Arab-Israeli's ..

    ISRAEL ..
    Jewish population = 6,102,000 (75.2%) ..
    Arab population = 1,682,000 (20.6%) ..
    other population = 4.2% ..
    mainly Armenian (Christians) ..
     
    SergioL likes this.
  9. Thanks Iox...excellent info...there we have it!
     
    ixoye_8 likes this.
  10. #10 ixoye_8, May 5, 2014
    Last edited: May 5, 2014
    there was a "great highway" that led from Egypt (hugging the Mediterranean Sea up to Tyre .. Philistine lands (fertile Gaza Strip area) laid directly between them .. Egypt also claimed the Sinai Peninsula as a territory as their buffer zone as well as the Philistines claimed the territory of SW Negev as their buffer zone .. after the Assyrians decimated Canaan, Philistines dropped off the map (per-say) and Egypt then claimed the Philistine's territory (SW Negev) as theirs also until 106 AD .. hence "the trip to Egypt" in 3 BC was not as far to get outside of Herod's jurisdiction as many think ..

    Exo 13:17 Now when Pharaoh had let the people go, God did not lead them by the way of the land of the Philistines, even though it was near; for God said, “The people might change their minds when they see war, and return to Egypt.”

    1Sa 6:12 And the cows took the straight way in the direction of Beth-shemesh; they went along the highway, lowing as they went, and did not turn aside to the right or to the left. And the lords of the Philistines followed them to the border of Beth-shemesh.

    HERE IS ABOUT THE BEST DEFINITION OF WHO THE PHILISTINES WERE ..
    AND HOW MANY PEOPLE THEY SHARED CANAAN WITH ..

    Gen 10:13 Mizraim became the father of (Lud) the Ludim, (Anam) the Anamim, (Lehab) the Lehabim, (Maphtuh) the Naphtuhim,
    Gen 10:14 (Pathrus) the Pathrusim and (Casluh) the Casluhim (from which came the Philistines) and Caphtorim. (their name changed 500 years later from Pathrusim to Philistines)
    Gen 10:15 Canaan became the father of Sidon, his firstborn, and Heth
    Gen 10:16 and (Jebus) the Jebusite, (Amor) the Amorite, (Girgash) the Girgashite,
    Gen 10:17 (Hiv) the Hivite, (Ark) the Arkite and (Sin) the Sinite

    WHICH MEANS THE PHILISTINES WERE BORN INTO THAT LAND (not came there) HAVING THE SAME FATHER AS THE EGYPTIANS (Mizra-im), MAKING THEM BLOOD RELATED .. HENCE ALLIES .. [​IMG]

    HERE IS ABOUT THE BEST DEFINITION OF WHAT LAND THE PHILISTINES OWNED ..

    Jos 13:2 “This is the land that remains: all the regions of the Philistines and all those of the Geshurites;
    Jos 13:3 from the Shihor which is east of Egypt, even as far as the border of Ekron to the north (it is counted as Canaanite); the five lords of the Philistines: the Gazite, the Ashdodite, the Ashkelonite, the Gittite, the Ekronite; and the Avvite
    Jos 13:4 to the south, all the land of the Canaanite, and Mearah that belongs to the Sidonians, as far as Aphek, to the border of the Amorite;
    Jos 13:5 and the land of the Gebalite, and all of Lebanon, toward the east, from Baal-gad below Mount Hermon as far as Lebo-hamath.

    also remember, when David cut off Goliath's head, he fixed it on the gate of Jerusalem as a warning to the Philistines if they came east ..

    Jdg 16:21 Then the Philistines seized him and gouged out his eyes; and they brought him down to Gaza and bound him with bronze chains, and he was a grinder in the prison.

    2 men killed 1600 men with only an ox poker and a donkeys jawbone .. lol
     
  11. Genn 10:6 The sons of Ham were Cush and Mizraim and Put and Canaan.

    so from my understanding, Ham's 3 youngest sons (except eldest Cush/Kush/Kish who inherited father Ham's share of land on the Euphrates) went to the Mediterranean Sea area (as settlers) and fathered their respectful peoples ..

    Gen 10:8 Now Cush became the father of Nimrod; he became a mighty one on the earth.
    Gen 10:10 The beginning of his kingdom was Babel and Erech and Accad and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.
    Gen 10:11 From that land he went forth into Assyria, and built Nineveh and Rehoboth-Ir and Calah,
    Cush - who became the father of the Kushites (modern Iran) ..

    Gen 10:7 The sons of Cush were Seba and Havilah and Sabtah and Raamah and Sabteca; and the sons of Raamah were Sheba and Dedan.
    Mizra - who became the father of the Mizraim (modern Egypt) ..

    Gen 10:13 Mizraim became the father of Ludim and Anamim and Lehabim and Naphtuhim
    Gen 10:14 and Pathrusim and Casluhim (from which came the Philistines) and Caphtorim.
    Put - who became the father of the Putim (modern Ethiopia) ..

    (note: Gen does not give his sons names)
    Canaan - who fathered ALL Canaanites (modern Israel) ..

    Gen 10:15 Canaan became the father of Sidon, his firstborn, and Heth
    Gen 10:16 and the Jebusite and the Amorite and the Girgashite
    Gen 10:17 and the Hivite and the Arkite and the Sinite
    Gen 10:18 and the Arvadite and the Zemarite and the Hamathite; and afterward the families of the Canaanite were spread abroad.
    so Mizra, the father of the Mizraim people (Egyptians) WAS the father of the Philistines (a son nation to Egypt) ..

    the land of Israel was basically divided in half, East and West ..
    the eastern hill lands belonging to Canaan's descendents ..
    the Western coast lands belonging to Mizraim's descendents ..

    (both Western Philistine & Eastern Canaan were cousin lands)

    HENCE HERODOTUS WHO NEVER WAS THERE, DID NOT UNDERSTAND WHO OWNED WHAT LAND .. NONETHELESS, HERODOTUS WAS ALSO WRITING DURING THE POST-BABYLONIAN CAPTIVITY (450 to 420 BC) AND DID NOT REALIZE THE ISRAELITES ALREADY SUBJECTED ALL ISRAEL BY HIS AUTHORING DATE [​IMG]

    586 BCE King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon conquers Jerusalem
    (captures Israelites and takes them to Babylon in bondage)
    539 BCE King Cyrus of Persia conquers Babylon
    (frees Israelites and allows them to return to Israel)

    538 BCE King Cyrus annexs Israel into the Persian kingdom
    333 BCE Alexander the Great annexs Israel into the Greek kingdom


    SO WITH NO PHILISTINES TO BE FOUND (only Hebrews and Samaritans) HERODOTUS DISPLAYS HE WAS OUT OF TOUCH WITH CURRENT HISTORY BY USING THE DEFUNCT NAME OF PHILISTINE FOR THE COASTAL LANDS AS WELL AS THE HILL LANDS WHICH THE PHILISTINES NEVER OWNED ..
     
  12. Herodotus actually tells us that he did not travel personally to either Egypt or Israel and relied upon second hand accounts of others. He was aware of the Jews, though, since he says that the inhabitants of "Palaistinê" were circumcised. This can only refer to the Jews. He also discusses how God destroyed Sennacherib's army confirming the text of 2 Kings 19:35-36. Although he wrote his six books in 450 BC, the earliest actual manuscripts of Herodotus are dated 900 AD. That means there is a span of 1350 years between when the book was written and the earliest actual hard copies that are extant. There are 8 different manuscripts of Herodotus, the oldest being dated from 900 AD. We need to remember that the manuscripts of Herodotus' history likely contain changes as do other ancient works. For example, Agatharchides of Cnidus wrote, "On the Erythraean Sea" in 169 BC, has been reconstructed from three other ancient authors: Diodorus (49 BC), Strabo (15 AD), Photius (897 AD). The original script of Agatharchides, often has three widely varying readings or "fragments". This is instructive because Photius, who lived in 900 AD (the same time as the oldest manuscript of Herodotus) greatly changed and embellished with his own comments of Agatharchides words when compared to the older versions of Diodorus and Strabo. Of course none of the three agree and contain many differences. This contrasts with the Bible, where we have a complete copy from 325AD and over 50,000 manuscripts. The variation between all the manuscripts is very slight. What this means, is that there is a good chance that later copyists inserted the post 135 AD name of "Palaistinê" into Herodotus' work. In any case, it is clear that Herodotus used "Palaistinê" to refer to everything from Syria to Egypt, including Israel. Other ancient geographers said that Arabia was directly next to Goshen in Egypt because after 106 AD Caesar annexed the modern Sinai Peninsula and renamed it "Arabia. Probably both the words "Arabia" and "Palaistinê" were glosses added to reflect post third century AD geography and terminology.

    ever read Octavian's version of Cleopatra, which his lacky's Horace and Lucan confirmed ???
    compare it to Plutarch's more detailed version, and tell me someone did not embellish ..

    Greece fell as the world power, and Rome was in competition with Egypt for that title ..

    here is an example of HOW historians often work ..

    Written Accounts of Flying Reptiles by ancient historians

    Author ........ Date ...... Location ........ Source of data
    Herodotus .. 450 BC . Arabia-Egypt ... oral report
    Aristotle ..... 300 BC .. Nubia ............. oral report

    ok .. so Herodotus says they are in Arabia-Egypt and about 150 years later Aristotle says they are in Nubia ..
    BOTH RECORDING MERELY ON HEAR-SAY ..

    ok .. so next Philae, Mela, Solinus, Aelianus, Solinus say they are in Arabia-Egypt, yet they never used a source to verify ..
    ALL MERELY COPIED HERODOTUS' HEAR-SAY ..

    ok .. then we have Cicero, who says they are in Libya-Egypt ..
    ALSO BASED ON HEAR-SAY ..

    ok .. and finally we have Josephus, who is the only one who followed Aristotle an said they were in Nubia ..
    HE MERELY COPIED ARISTOTLE'S HEAR-SAY ..

    so we have NINE Historians who make this claim yet not one of them verified the data only accepted "hear-say" or like most only COPIED anthers work ..

    so is what the Historians wrote Gospel ???
    NOT HARDLY ..
    were they plagiarist ???
    primarily ..
     
  13. Herodotus actually tells us that he did not travel personally to either Egypt or Israel and relied upon second hand accounts of others. He was aware of the Jews, though, since he says that the inhabitants of "Palaistinê" were circumcised. This can only refer to the Jews. He also discusses how God destroyed Sennacherib's army confirming the text of 2 Kings 19:35-36. Although he wrote his six books in 450 BC, the earliest actual manuscripts of Herodotus are dated 900 AD. That means there is a span of 1350 years between when the book was written and the earliest actual hard copies that are extant. There are 8 different manuscripts of Herodotus, the oldest being dated from 900 AD. We need to remember that the manuscripts of Herodotus' history likely contain changes as do other ancient works. For example, Agatharchides of Cnidus wrote, "On the Erythraean Sea" in 169 BC, has been reconstructed from three other ancient authors: Diodorus (49 BC), Strabo (15 AD), Photius (897 AD). The original script of Agatharchides, often has three widely varying readings or "fragments". This is instructive because Photius, who lived in 900 AD (the same time as the oldest manuscript of Herodotus) greatly changed and embellished with his own comments of Agatharchides words when compared to the older versions of Diodorus and Strabo. Of course none of the three agree and contain many differences. This contrasts with the Bible, where we have a complete copy from 325AD and over 50,000 manuscripts. The variation between all the manuscripts is very slight. What this means, is that there is a good chance that later copyists inserted the post 135 AD name of "Palaistinê" into Herodotus' work. In any case, it is clear that Herodotus used "Palaistinê" to refer to everything from Syria to Egypt, including Israel. Other ancient geographers said that Arabia was directly next to Goshen in Egypt because after 106 AD Caesar annexed the modern Sinai Peninsula and renamed it "Arabia. Probably both the words "Arabia" and "Palaistinê" were glosses added to reflect post third century AD geography and terminology.

    ever read Octavian's version of Cleopatra, which his lacky's Horace and Lucan confirmed ???
    compare it to Plutarch's more detailed version, and tell me someone did not embellish ..

    Greece fell as the world power, and Rome was in competition with Egypt for that title ..

    here is an example of HOW historians often work ..

    Written Accounts of Flying Reptiles by ancient historians

    Author ........ Date ...... Location ........ Source of data
    Herodotus .. 450 BC . Arabia-Egypt ... oral report
    Aristotle ..... 300 BC .. Nubia ............. oral report

    ok .. so Herodotus says they are in Arabia-Egypt and about 150 years later Aristotle says they are in Nubia ..
    BOTH RECORDING MERELY ON HEAR-SAY ..

    ok .. so next Philae, Mela, Solinus, Aelianus, Solinus say they are in Arabia-Egypt, yet they never used a source to verify ..
    ALL MERELY COPIED HERODOTUS' HEAR-SAY ..

    ok .. then we have Cicero, who says they are in Libya-Egypt ..
    ALSO BASED ON HEAR-SAY ..

    ok .. and finally we have Josephus, who is the only one who followed Aristotle an said they were in Nubia ..
    HE MERELY COPIED ARISTOTLE'S HEAR-SAY ..

    so we have NINE Historians who make this claim yet not one of them verified the data only accepted "hear-say" or like most only COPIED anthers work ..

    so is what the Historians wrote Gospel ???
    NOT HARDLY ..
    were they plagiarist ???
    primarily ..
     
  14. Jewish people have been living in Israel for thousands of years. Sephardi Jews never left the place. Also, the "Palestinians" are mostly nomads who came from Turkey, Greece, Egypt and other parts of the Ottoman Empire. They are not natives to that land. For instance Arafat was born in Egypt to an Egyptian parent. The Palestinian cause is a big sham fueled entirely by religious antisemitism.
     
    Intojoy and Where is the Messiah say Amen and like this.

Share This Page