Which Law?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Denadii Cho, Feb 20, 2009.

  1. Which Law?

    So this is what I woke up with this morning.

    In all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
    When the woman saw that the tree was good for food (the lust of the flesh),​
    and that it was pleasant to the eyes (the lust of the eyes), and a tree to be​
    desired to make one wise (the pride of life), she took of the fruit thereof, and​
    did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.​
    When the tempter came to [Jesus], he said, if thou be the Son of God,​
    command that these stones be made bread (the lust of the flesh). But he​
    answered, ... Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that​
    proceedeth out of the mouth of God. The devil ... sheweth him all the​
    kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them (the lust of the eyes, and the​
    pride of life). Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan.​
    In that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them​
    that are tempted.​
    Blessed is the man that endureth temptation.​
    I was told (again) the other day how Jesus was part man and part God. Being so He didn't sin because He was part God.​
    Not so! Jesus was ALL God. He took on Himself the form of man. The Word says He took part of the same. So what part did He take? What part did He not take?​
    He took it all with the exception of the sinful nature part. Ohhhh!! That's why it was so easy for Him to say no to temptation. What about us then? ​
    Listen! When you were born again, you were raised up a new creature. Part man and part God. A hybrid as it were. Perfect and without sin. With a god nature, not a sin nature. You have the choice to walk in the same realm as Jesus does, or in the realm of sin. You can walk in Love or in darkness. Its your free choice. We not more have a sin nature now than Jesus did, thus its no more difficult for us to say no to sin than it was for Jesus to say no to sin. Why? We share the same nature. Jesus was tempted in all points, yet He did not sin. He walked in Love all the time. He walked in the Light all the time. When temptation came, what did He do? He countered it with Word and it was blown away like dust. But He was walking in Love all the time!!​
    Was He under the Law then? No. Jesus obeyed the law as far as customary rites go. Such as He was circumcised. He celebrated Passover. He had a Bar Mitzvah. He did live under the law ever. How do I know this? When you live under, or by the law, sin has dominion over you.​
    Romans 6:13-14 (King James Version)

    13Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
    14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

    Galatians 3:24
    Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
    Galatians 3:25
    But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    Are we supposed to living under the OT law? No. We are under Grace now.

    There is a NT law that we are to be living under.

    I look at this verse and I see it.
    Romans 8:7
    Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

    So by my own understanding, (which one cannot lean on) there is another law that we are to live by.

    Spiritual law. Matthew 22:37-40 (King James Version)

    37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    38This is the first and great commandment.
    39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    What is this law? The law of Love. Which brings me back to the law that Jesus walked in.

    What do you think? Is it right? Or should I go back to bed?:)

  2. I'm not comfortable with the "Hybrid" analogy.
    (But don't go back to bed!) :D

    First, when discussing any part of the trinity it is important that we remember that our minds cannot fully comprehend God.
    I think it is very important that we remember our own limitations.

    Christ was 100% God AND 100% man, not a hybrid. John 1 (Became, not partly became.)
    I know that adds up to 200%, so we like to use our own minds and say, 50/50 or 75/25, just because that is the limit to our understanding.

    Likewise, you stated that when we are born again we are raised up a new creature. With that I couldn't agree more.

    Part man and Part God. I have a problem with that.
    Christ lives in us as we live in Christ, but we are not justified in any way by our own righteousness, but 100% by Christs righteousness.

    I can't think of any biblical evidence that would support the notion that we are part God.
    Created in His image, Yes. But part God? As I said, I don't have any biblical support to support that. :)
  3. I agree, the law of love should be the foundation of your belief, everything else follows. If you love, you do not lie, steal, covet naturally because they go against the law of love.
  4. Well said.

    Just like the commandments. Keep the first one, and you cannot break any of the others. Break one, and you have broken them all.

    I guess I see the law like wading in water.
    It is a guide, it helps to support us. It reveals to us our sin, but if we depend on it for salvation then we are under the Law and we would drown.

    I get a great big chuckle every time I read that!
  5. Good thoughts , Deni so don't go back to bed .

    I just have a problem with this statement .
    Yes, I am a new creation in Christ but I am not perfect and never will be . There is only one man , Jesus Christ who is perfect . And yes I can pattern my life after Him but I can never be perfect in this old natural body as long as I live on this earth .

    As for being part man and part God .... I am not that either . I will always have a sinful nature but it is covered by the Blood of Jesus Christ . So I am stil ' woman " LOL . but by grace I am saved and through faith have received , and will always stuggle with self but through prayer and the Word , I am an overcomer . Not perfect but striving for perfection in Christ but will never be perfect.

    Praise God , I can get closer to Christ and advance in holiness by resisting the temptation of sin and proclaiming the love of Jesus Christ to my fellow man.
  6. So Deni .... I would say to you that it is not a matter of which law because we are not under the law ... We are under grace.

    Thank you Jesus
  7. Hmmmm,.....

    We are going to break commandments, because our perfection will not be completed until Christ returns and we are taken up to heaven in a whirlwind.

    1 Thess 4:15-17
    Indeed, we tell you this, on the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will surely not precede those who have fallen asleep.
    For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
    Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord.
    1 Cor 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed

    We still make mistakes; Error in our judgment; Cave in to fear - just like the unsaved.

    But there are two majors differences between the saved and unsaved:

    1. Our sins will not be counted against us

    2. When we sin, we regret deeply and God uses our remorse to strengthen us so it becomes easier not to repeat our mistakes. This same regret causes us to confess and make amends when possible - despite the fear we will be chastised.

  8. I like that.

    When we look at sin from that perspective, and forgiveness, it is easier to see that forgiveness is not something we do of our own power, but that forgiveness is by Gods Grace.

    God forgives us, to the same degree that we offer that very same forgiveness to one another. In this way, all the Glory is to God alone, and not by our own works. (So that no man/(woman!) may boast.
  9. Amen .... exactly .

    John 1:17
    For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.


  10. (Christ was 100% God AND 100% man, not a hybrid. John 1 (Became, not partly became.)
    I know that adds up to 200%, so we like to use our own minds and say, 50/50 or 75/25, just because that is the limit to our understanding.)

    When I mentioned 'hybrid' I was talking about us. We are raised up with the Holy Spirit inside and totally inseparable from us. This is what I was referring to as making us hybrids. Totally new creations. Something which never existed before.
    Did I discuss the trinity? lol

    I do love your input. I enjoy talking with you. :):)
  11. Deni .... Could you do an old lady a favour and put the print a little bigger .? I am finding it hard to read ....:(:(

  12. Born under the Law....

    "But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons." Galatians 4:4-5

    Suffered and Bore the Curse of the Law...

    Galatians 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE "--

    Hebrews 9:28 "so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him."

    1 Peter 2:24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

    Galatians 3:21-24 "Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law. But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith."

    Hebrews 4:15 "For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin."

    Hebrews 2:18 For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.

    His temptation was not easy for Him

    Matthew 4:1-3 "Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry. And the tempter came and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.""

    Matthew 26:41 "Keep watching and praying that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak."

    Matthew 26:38 Then He said to them, "My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; remain here and keep watch with Me."

    Luke 22:39-46 (NASB)

    The Garden of Gethsemane
    And He came out and proceeded as was His custom to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples also followed Him. When He arrived at the place, He said to them, “Pray that you may not enter into temptation.” And He withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and began to pray, saying, “Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done.” Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground. When He rose from prayer, He came to the disciples and found them sleeping from sorrow, and said to them, “Why are you sleeping? Get up and pray that you may not enter into temptation.”

    Isaiah 53:5 But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His scourging we are healed.

    Then I began to weep greatly because no one was found worthy to open the book or to look into it; and one of the elders said to me, "Stop weeping; behold, the Lion that is from the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has overcome so as to open the book and its seven seals." And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. Revelation 5:4-6
  13. Yes, I am a new creation in Christ but I am not perfect and never will be . There is only one man , Jesus Christ who is perfect . And yes I can pattern my life after Him but I can never be perfect in this old natural body as long as I live on this earth .

    Dusty Here is a place where we differ. You said above that we cannot be perfect in this world in these natural bodies. I disagree. Let me show you why.

    Colossians 3:14 (21st Century King James Version)

    14And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.

    1 Corinthians 2:6
    Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:

    2 Corinthians 13:11
    Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

    Philippians 3:15
    Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

    Colossians 4:12
    Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.

    2 Timothy 3:16-17 (King James Version)

    16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

    Leviticus 20:7
    Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.
    Leviticus 20:6-8 (in Context) Leviticus 20 (Whole Chapter) 1 Peter 1:15
    But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
    1 Peter 1:14-16 (in Context) 1 Peter 1 (Whole Chapter) 1 Peter 1:16
    Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

    If God tells us to be perfect (Holy) then it is not impossible.

    It comes back to choices. Listening. Obedience and Yielding Minute by minute, second by second, day by day until its second nature (or first nature) Automatic if you will. He says do it. That means that we should do it. Be perfect. Be holy.

    Please don't think I'm saying I'm there yet. LOL I'm just starting out too.

    (I will always have a sinful nature but it is covered by the Blood of Jesus Christ )

    As for that sinful nature I don't have that. That died with the old man when I was born again. Yes The flesh still draws and Satan still tempts as will always happen in this world. But I can choose to follow my new nature. This new nature is part of "all things have become new" A born again nature. :):)

  14. Yes I agree a whole hundred percent. We are under grace. We only follow the law of Love

    Matthew 22:37-40 (King James Version)

    37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    38This is the first and great commandment.
    39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets

    Hows the font size now?:):)
  15. :D:D:D:D..... He he ....much better thanks .

    we can strive for perfection but we will never be perfect. That is what I am saying . Christ was the only one who is perfect.

  16. Then why does God tell us to do the impossible? Not fair!! Not love. It causes discouragement
  17. Ok what I am saying is God alone who lacks nothing in terms of goodness or excellance is tuely perfect. Everything He is , thinks , and does has the character of perfection . How can we ever says that we match that ? Sorry not me Deni .... I am not God .

    When human beings were called perfect in the OT it means that they are up right or blameless. .... without spot or blemish .

    The greek " teleios " says that perfection is the idea of reaching the point of full growth or maturity.

    ( 1 Cor 2:6; 14:20; Eph4:13; Phil3:15; Col. 1:28;4:12; Heb5:14)
  18. The same reason I tell my children to do it perfectly.
    I know that they will not achieve perfection, but that is what we strive for.

    Would you tell your children to "Really go for second place!" ???

    Or would you tell them to "Get out there and WIN!"
    And then be there and be proud of them no matter what. :groupray:

    I don't think striving for the impossible causes discouragement unless a person hasn't learned yet how to accept humility, in which case, it is something they need to learn. :)
  19. Just Push the Rock

    [SIZE=+4]T[/SIZE]here is a story told of a young man in a cabin who prays to God and asks God what He wants him to do with his life. God tells him to look at the massive rock that is in a valley beneath him and every day for the rest of his life he is to push that rock. The young man does as he is told by God and does so for about twenty years. After twenty years of frustration, the man then prays to God again and says to God, "I've done what you've told me to do and I haven't even moved that rock one millimeter." God answers him and says, "I didn't tell you to move that rock. I told you to push it. Look at your hands and arms and how strong they are. Look at the strength of your body that you obtained by pushing on that rock all of these years."

    (I don't know where this originated, but it is a very good parable)
  20. But of course, Jesus also said,

    17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    So, Jesus specifically says that not one letter of the Law will pass until heaven and earth disappears. And then He goes on to note that there will be two major divisions in the kingdom of heaven, 1, those who teach and obey the Law, and 2, those who neither teach nor obey the Law. So apparently, keeping the Law is not a requirement for entrance into the Kindom of heaven, but keeping the Law is highly recommended.

    And of course, Paul goes on to note in Romans 3:27-31 that though we are saved through faith, we should still histemi (up hold, establish, stand by, recommend, abide by, put forward, promote) the Law. And we must remember when reading and interpreting Paul that he was opposing Judiazing believers, believers who were Pharisees before the became followers of Christ and the "law" that they promoted was not just the Torah, but also the teachings of the Pharisees as reflected in the Mishnah and Talmud. These teachings of the Pharisees were also condemned by Christ (Mt.23).

    Paul was also countering Legalism, the concept that salvation can come through obedience to any specific set of rules. Law was not given to save the Israelites; salvation came through faith. Law was given by God to teach the "saved" how to live. Even so, it is only by the power of the Spirit that we are able to fulfill the Law.

    Sadly, due to several factors, the early Gentile church rejected our Jewish brothers and anti-Semiticism plagued the church for generations, even through the reformation. This anti-Semiticism encouraged a disrespect for the Law and is the foundation of the traditional doctrine that the Law has been done away with. However, the Law has not been done away with; rather, our sins against the Law, the judgement against us is what has been nailed to the cross.

    Well, I realize what I've presented is not the traditional view, but I hope that you'll consider it. If we'll listen to the Law, teach it and abide by it we'll be great in the Kingdom of Heaven!


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