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Which Bible?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by TH420X, Aug 13, 2014.

  1. Hi folks . I'm sure this has been discussed to death here but I'd like some fresh input (or copied/pasted input from before if you've already written something and feel the same) on the subject, please.

    What kind of Bible do most folks suggest? As in, what version? Most of mine are the NIV, with my main one being a NIV study Bible. Back when I researched them it seemed like the best translation for me. Now I'm thinking I may want a 1611 KJV study Bible but I'm not sure. I've also heard the ESV and NRSV are good.

    None of my churches use the 1611 but I was thinking I could follow along with my own KJV and that might help me "get it" better, along with the study notes. I'll admit that I can sometimes drift away when trying to read Olde English.

    Anyway, would anyone care to provide any info on this topic? I'm open to any and all suggestions. Some things have been happening on the inside and I'd like to keep this fire alive. Also, do publishers matter? I think I've read something here about that but I'm not sure. And links to products are good! Especially Amazon. [emoji106] [emoji4] Thank you.
  2. There was an old thread on this. Anyways though, my input use to be NIV or anything easy to read, but i've switched to saying KJV now because all the modern versions do kinda slaughter the Word I think. I'm not saying that having no bible is better than having NIV, etc... but I think it would be a good idea to get use to reading the KJV.
    Heart_for_Christ, Silk and TH420X says Amen and like this.
  3. The question is not an easy one to answer, nor will it be a short one. So here goes.

    #1 the originals - TheWord.net
    #2 KJV with a dictionary - preferably one from 1800's

    Here's why: Let's take this passage

    John 20:21-23 KJV - 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.

    Every translation has in verse 23 "remit" or "forgiven". The understanding, and wrongfully I might add, is that whomever we forgive they are forgiven and those we don't forgive will not be forgiven. Or maybe we're only to forgive 490 times as Jesus said, Mat 18:22. How ungodly is that? I've stated elsewhere that forgiveness isn't for the offender but for the offended. The word forgive/remit is ἀφέωνταί (apheōntai) and means to send away, cast off.

    While I don't like the message bible because of its mistranslations of a lot of verses, I do like this one:

    John 20:21-23 MSG The disciples, seeing the Master with their own eyes, were exuberant. Jesus repeated his greeting: “Peace to you. Just as the Father sent me, I send you.” Then he took a deep breath and breathed into them. “Receive the Holy Spirit,” he said. “If you forgive someone’s sins, they’re gone for good. If you don’t forgive sins, what are you going to do with them?”

    What are these verses really saying? Send away the sins of others... from WHO? Yourself. Let's say I make the statement "You're stupid." That would invoke an emotional response right? If you hear it enough times from different people you might even begin to believe it and store it in your heart, even if it were not true. Just like this verse says:

    Pro 18:8 KJV - 8 The words of a talebearer [are] as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.

    Now, if that feeling sits there for 20 years, you might develop physical ailments, unless we deal with it by sending it away. Now we can read what Jesus said and understand:

    Whose soever sins ye send away, they are sent away; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained within you.

    What a huge difference in meaning, all because we used the word of God to help understand the word of God, in the original and a dictionary. The problem with the word forgive in English is that is means to excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon. But as the old adage goes, forgive AND forget. Many say they forgive, but they don't deal with the feelings associated with the offense and it sits there festering until they're a grumpy old man (or cat :p). While the word remit, to refrain from exacting (a penalty, for example); cancel, is better, it still gets lost in today's wording. But when we use Pro 18:8 we see what offenses do to us. Here's a great read on this: http://www.thekingdomimpact.org/Offences.html

    I hope this helps.
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  4. Well, @TH420X , your question can bring out all kinds of interesting answers, some of which can be without either logical or truthful foundation. I think that, in order to choose your BibleS, you need to ask yourself what you want your Bibles to do for you. My intention is this: don't settle for one.

    When you want to lie back and enjoy your readings, your NIV. It's an easy read, although not good for study.

    When you want to study, try an NASB. It's pretty accurate. I use this Bible for almost everything. It is my purse Bible, my study Bible, and my desk Bible. Many people say that it is too wooden for reading, but I don't agree. For myself, it is a waste of time for me to read a Bible I would not use for study. (But understand that I have reading problems: both A.D.D. and dyslexia (although the latter only shows its ugly head when I am tired or nervous).

    When you want ye olde English, with its beauty and poetry, and KJV will work wonderfully. Great for Psalms and Proverbs, for example. It has less accuracy than people would want you to believe. Unless you want Shakespearean English, however, just stick to a common KJV.

    If you have trouble reading (which you obviously don't), use The Picture Bible. This is a fabulous Bible for young ones, people with severe reading disabilities, and those who want a quick, enjoyable understanding of the stories. This Bible has the main stories set up with beautiful color pictures, it is amazingly accurate.

    You mentioned the ESV. I've heard that it's pretty good for accuracy, but I haven't spent a lot of time in it. I've heard the same things about the TNIV, which I have not tried; however, someone here said that it doesn't treat the Godhead as they wish. Again, I don't have any personal knowledge about it.

    I also use the Stones, especially when I question what a version says when I am studying.

    But buy your Bibles according to purpose, and use more than version.
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  5. Perhaps we should get a Bible written in the original text and just learn the old languages. That way there is no misunderstanding.
    God is Love, TH420X, TezriLi and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  6. I don't care for the NIV translation because it has several problems including omitting entire verses. You can find many articles on the web about it.

    In print I have a NKJ bible that I read from. I have fewer problems with it. Mainly one verse that was added to, to justify the trinity doctrine in 1 John chapter 5.

    If I had my choice, I would also read the KJV because even though the old english is difficult, it adds to the meaning.

    Sometimes I read (online) the Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) because it puts Gods name, or descriptive name, back into the text. It also puts the names of people and places transliterated to sound like the original text.

    ^^^ Just my thoughts and feelings.
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  7. I say keep a few different versions and compare. I have a KJV but never use it. I also use the NASB and ESV. Also trust the Holy Spirit in understanding.
    dUmPsTeR and TH420X say Amen and like this.
  8. I agree with the multiples suggestion. In fact, I have four NIVs, one KJV, one NKJV, one RSV, and the Message. And, of course, the Bible Gateway app.

    While I would love to learn the original languages, that's not going to happen anytime soon. I do like the idea of a KJV with an 1800s Bible (that was the suggestion, right? 1611 KJV w/1800s dictionary?). In fact, my ex-stepdad whose been visiting for the past week also suggested the KJV with a dictionary, as it's what he uses (he's a no TV, no internet, reads the Bible to pass the time guy; kind of inspiring).

    I just want the best possible translation for knowing the true Word of God that I can carry in my backpack everywhere I go so that I may dive deep and gain the insight He wants me to. Of course, I pray beforehand and ask the Holy Spirit to guide me.

    Thanks for the input!!
  9. My view is there isn't a perfect translation. Everyone of us on this forum uses a different translation. We all pretty much agree for what is needed for salvation, and who Christ is. The biggest issue is interpretation of the bible.
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  10. I personally like the NIV the best. It is a trustworthy and accurate translation. KJV is not as accurate, but it does preserve many of the cliches that come from the Bible. NKJV is good alternative to the KJV if you want something a little easier to read.

    ESV and NRSV are pretty standard versions, though I don't find them very poetic.

    My advice would be to stay away from NLT, this is because it uses a different mode of translation known as idea for idea, which leads them to interpret texts on their own which can sometimes result in incorrect translations. They also tend to be rather wordy and loose a lot of the poetic attributes of the text.

    Most Bibles, however, have pretty sincere efforts of translation, so whatever Bible you get I'm sure will be fine.
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  11. I have an old KJV that I used to TRY to read as a kid, but the language was too advanced for me at that time. I don't have much use for it today to be honest. I prefer studying with the NASB and Old English Douay-Rheims from around the 8th century or so--but that one takes extra time...which isn't a bad thing.
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  12. Awesome post man! I never understood john 20:23 until just now!
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  13. Thank you very much for the kind words. I give God all the glory and Jim Richards the credit for showing me this truth, and a good dictionary :)
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  14. Do you mean like a Strong's concordance when you say dictionary?
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  15. I use the NASB mostly. I like the ESV too but since most of the reformed leaders love it I think there has to be something wrong with it :p
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  16. I prefer the "KJV" as it has more study aids than others. The "ESV" is also pretty good. I also like the "Amplified" sometimes. "Niv" is OK but not my favorite. "Net" has some good notes and gives a little different insight. It is interesting to see how every translation choses certain words that gives a little different perspective from others.
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  17. I use TheWord.net software, but I was referring to a simple English dictionary :) Strong's is okay, but they're root-word dictionary not the morphology (explaining suffixes and prefixes). Here's an example:

    Word: Forgive
    English: To excuse for a fault or an offense; pardon.
    Hebrew: to lift, bear up, carry, take
    Greek: to send away, to bid going away or depart

    Having the originals help to remove the accepted dogma and allows the Holy Spirit to teach instead of man.

    In TheWord.net program is the paleo-Hebrew alphabet dictionary as well and here's the word in Hebrew: נשׂא

    Each letter has its own meaning:
    נ - seed, continuance
    שׂ - consume, destroy, strength
    א - leader, sacrifice

    With these meanings the word forgive in Hebrew literally means continuing strength [by] sacrifice!

    What is sacrificed? Our feelings of offenses! We maintain the strength given to us by the peace of the Lord rather than surrendering to the whims of the devil.
    TH420X, dUmPsTeR, God is Love and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  18. I use a program called, "The complete Word Study" It is a plugin for "E Sword". I think it comes in book form also. It will give you more information then you probably want. Here is the word, "Forgive"


    aphíēmi; fut. aphḗsō, fut. pass. aphethḗsomai; aor. pass. aphéthēn, perf. apheíka; irregular forms: pres. 2d person apheís, imperf. ḗphion, perf. pass. 3d person pl. aphéōntai; from apó (G575), from, and hiēmi (n.f., see iós [G2447]), to send. To send forth or away, let go from oneself. Used trans.:
    (I) To dismiss, e.g., the multitudes (Mat_13:36); of a wife, to put her away (1Co_7:11-13). In Mat_27:50, "he gave up the spirit" (a.t.), expired. See also Gen_35:18. In Mar_15:37, "when Jesus let forth a loud cry" (a.t. [Sept.: Gen_45:2]).
    (II) To let go from one's power, possession, to let go free, let escape (Mat_24:40-41; Luk_17:34-36; Sept.: Pro_4:13). Metaphorically, to let go from obligation toward oneself, to remit, e.g., a debt, offense, with the dat. of person (Mat_18:27, Mat_18:32, Mat_18:35; Mar_11:25; Sept.: Deu_15:2). Of sins, to remit the penalty of sins, i.e., to pardon, forgive, with the dat. of person, e.g., opheilḗmata (G3783), debts, faults (Mat_6:12); hamartías (G266), sins (Mat_9:2, Mat_9:5-6; Mat_12:31; Mar_2:5, Mar_2:7, Mar_2:9-10); blasphēmían (G988), blasphemy, evil speaking (Mat_12:31-32); paraptṓmata (G3900), trespasses, offenses (Mat_6:14-15; Mar_11:25); hamartḗmata (G265), individual sins (Mar_3:28; Mar_4:12); anomías (G458), iniquities, acts of lawlessness (Rom_4:7). Also Sept.: Gen_50:17; Exo_32:32; Lev_4:20; Lev_5:10, Lev_5:13; Psa_25:18; Psa_32:5; Isa_22:14; Isa_55:7. The expression "to forgive sins" or to remit sins means to remove the sins from someone. Only God is said to be able to do this (Mar_2:10). To forgive sins is not to disregard them and do nothing about them, but to liberate a person from them, their guilt, and their power. We are to ask God to forgive our sins, remove them away from us so that we do not stand guilty of them or under their power. We are never expected to forgive the sins of others toward God because we have no power to do so, but we are expected to forgive others for the sins done to us ("Forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors" or those who are our debtors [Mat_6:12]). To forgive others does not mean to separate them from us, but to allow them through our contact to know God who can free them from their sins. Thus we should do everything in our power to see that the sins of others are removed from them through the grace and power of Jesus Christ which we make known to them.
    (III) To let go from one's further notice, care, attendance, occupancy, i.e., to leave or let alone.
    (A) Spoken of persons, to quit, forsake or abandon (Mat_4:11; Mat_8:15; Mat_15:14; Mat_26:44, Mat_26:56; Mar_4:36; Joh_10:12). Of things, the nets (Mat_4:20); the house (Mar_13:34); Judea (Joh_4:3); all things (Mat_19:27, Mat_19:29). See also Sept.: 1Sa_17:20, 1Sa_17:28; Jer_12:7. To leave in any place or state, let remain (Mat_5:24; Mat_18:12; Mar_1:20; Luk_10:30; Joh_4:28; Joh_8:29, "hath not left me"; Joh_14:18, Joh_14:27; Joh_16:32; Act_14:17; Sept.: Gen_42:33; Exo_9:21; 2Sa_15:16; 1Ki_19:3; 1Ch_16:21). To leave to anyone, i.e., to let him have or take (Mat_5:40, "let him have thy cloak"). To leave behind as at death (Mat_22:25; Mar_12:19-22; Sept.: Psa_17:14; Ecc_2:18). To leave remaining, and in the pass., to be left, remain (Mat_23:38; Mat_24:2, "There shall not be left here one stone upon another"; Mar_13:2; Luk_13:35; Luk_19:44; Luk_21:6; Heb_2:8; Sept.: Jdg_2:23; Jdg_3:1).
    (B) Metaphorically, in various senses, to leave, desert, quit (Rom_1:27, "the natural use"; Rev_2:4). To omit, pass by (Heb_6:1, leaving the word of the beginning). To neglect, to omit (Mat_23:23, "the weightier matters of the law"; Mar_7:8; Luk_11:42; Sept.: Ecc_11:6).
    (IV) To let go, i.e., to let pass, permit, suffer, with the acc. followed by the inf. expressed or implied (Mat_8:22; Mat_13:30; Mat_19:14; Mar_1:34; Mar_5:37). See also Mat_3:15; Mar_5:19; Mar_11:6; Luk_13:8; Joh_11:48; Joh_12:7; Rev_2:20 (apheís or eás) "your [wife] Jezebel to teach" (a.t.); Sept.: Exo_12:23; Num_22:13; Jdg_16:26; 2Sa_16:11. Followed by hína (G2443), so that, with the subjunctive after verbs of command (Mar_11:16). The imper. áphes (sing.) and áphete (pl.) are followed by the subjunctive without hína, e.g., áphes ídōmen (first person pl. 2d aor. subjunctive of horáō [G3708], to see, let us see, suffer us to see [Mat_27:49; Mar_15:36]); Mat_7:4, "Let me pull out"; Luk_6:42.
    Deriv.: áphesis (G859), remission, forgiveness.
    Syn.: paúō (G3973), to stop, quit; katapaúō (G2664), to cease; katargéō (G2673), to render inactive; charízomai (G5483), to bestow a favor, to forgive; apolúō (G630), to release, dismiss; kataleípō (G2641), to leave behind; egkataleípō (G1459), to forsake, abandon; apotássō (G657), to place in order away from oneself; apotíthēmi (G659), to put off from oneself; apoleípō (G620), to remain; perileípō (G4035), to leave around; eáō (G1439), to let, permit; hupolimpánō (G5277), a late form of leípō (G3007), to leave; epitrépō (G2010), to permit; apotíthēmi (G659), to put away; chōrízō (G5563), to separate; apostréphō (G654), to turn away; apōthéomai (G683), to thrust away; lúō (G3089), to loose; pémpō (G3992), to send.
    Ant.: kratéō (G2902), to retain; lambánō (G2983), to take; ekdikéō (G1556), to bring justice out, vindicate; déō (G1210), to bind.
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  19. #19 God is Love, Aug 13, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2014
    Oh ok. I'm learning a lot from you haha. Thank you for explaining this all to me :)
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  20. Hello Lysander, I hate to nitpick but that was the 16th century not the 8th for Douay-Rheims Bible, and that would have been Elizabethan style English not Old English. Old English is practically indistinguishable from Norse so you get an idea of how incomprehensible it would be to
    a user of Modern English.
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