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Where is Jesus?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Zee, Jan 1, 2016.

  1. Mathew 7:22-23
    22"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23"And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

    If we analyze this verse where Jesus says!

    My question is why Jesus rejecting Christians as a whole on the day of Judgement because he is not addressing to Jews, Hindus, Muslims or Buddhist they do not call him Lord. It is Christians who call him Lord.

    Please explain me why he (Jesus) rejecting Christians.
  2. He's rejecting false Christians, the religious types who did not personally know Christ as their Lord and Savior, but professed that they knew Him.

    Many professing Christians do not know Christ.
    christianbacktobasics, JG27_chili, Cturtle and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  3. Many who call themselves Christians, but are just pretenders, are the ones Jesus is rejecting. These are people who like the thought of being a Christian, yet have not accepted or trusted Jesus Christ to be their Savior and Lord of their lives. Many of these have been raised in the Church setting and are accustomed to the Christian lifestyle of acceptance and love among the brethren.
    It is easy to find people who think all they have to do is have good intentions or do some good things or be a good person to be accepted by God.
    He says, "I never knew you". Think of all the people you have met but you really don't know who they are. This is what Jesus is saying. I don't know who you really are, and you don't know who I really am because you never bothered to have a personal relationship with Me. I never knew you.
    Those who want to get to know you spend time working on a relationship with you.
    Therefore, a person must spend time getting and inviting Jesus into their life, and once you know Him, you will make him your Lord of your life. These people will not be turned away.
    KingJ, Cturtle and Fish Catcher Jim says Amen and like this.
  4. @Klub & Big Moose

    I am not looking for point of views. If he is talking about the false Christians than what about the rest of the world Jesus can't be racist and God can't be unjust that he is only thinking about true and false Christians. show me some thing from the bible where Jesus defend true Christians if that's the case of true and false Christians.
  5. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth, and the life."
    In my opinion, the important word here, in regards to your question, is truth.

    There is only truth. Anything other than truth is a deception.
    Jesus's teachings are all about deeper truths about life. These truths are about a reality that has been veiled, by us, out of fear.
    To know Christ is to not only understand his teachings but to incorporate them into a way of life.
    Many pretend to be Christians, thinking that they can bribe (appear, pretend, pay, and claim) their way.
    Then their are those who are humble and meek, and practice way of life that is both truth and love. They are often hidden in service. What I mean is, they are so anonymous we see them but we don't. They do not appear and claim to be anything. They know the Truth that dwells in their heart. It is a Truth that cannot be understood, or explained, except through faith. It is a 'knowing'. These people are here for God.
    It is a Truth that nobody can claim for themselves (false ego-self) though the untrue are eager to do so. These are the false Christians. These people are here for self.

    I hope this may have helped you.
  6. I'm confused about what you are saying.

    If a man is not a true Christian, meaning that Christ is not the Lord of your life and your savior, then he is going to hell. Race has nothing to do with it.

    This passage is talking about fake Christians who put on the apperance of Christians, they do the things true believers do, but without the personal relationship with Christ
    Cturtle likes this.
  7. #7 calvin, Jan 1, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2016
    Zee, I believe you need to step back a verse.
    Matt 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
    The key point here is that only those who "do the will of my Father who is in heaven" will enter the Kingdom of heaven.
    What is the will of the Father?
    There could be a book full of ideas on what constitutes the will of the father, but I will leave you with this one thought....
    Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"
    Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
    Acts 2:39 For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."
    Acts 2:40 And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, "Save yourselves from this crooked generation."
    Acts 2:41 So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.
    Acts 2:42 And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.
    These people will not be turned away as strangers at the last day, because they have believed that Jesus is the risen Christ of God, repented and been baptized and they are indwelt by the Holy Spirit who will guide them to do the Father's will in their lives.
    Hope this helps you.
    KingJ, Waggles and Cturtle says Amen and like this.
  8. There are a lot of people that call themselves Christians only to identify that they're not Jews, Muslims, etc. Saying you're a Christian is no more true than saying you're a car because you stand in a garage. :D
    crownoflife, KingJ and Cturtle says Amen and like this.
  9. Zee, note that these persons who are being turned away are not Christians, rather they are ones who practice 'lawlessness'.
    I think lawlessness in this context is best understood as living outside of, or contrary to the Father's will.
    We need to focus on our own personal walk with the Lord and not look about to see who 'we' can judge as being false Christians.
    You are right though in saying that Jews, Muslims, Buddhists etc do not call Jesus Lord.
    Who can say what these people will say or confess when confronted with the risen Christ of God and His truth and eternal judgement?
    I can imagine that those people will call up every deed of theirs that they think might be good for getting acceptance, but the one humble confession that they are unworthy and in need of His gracious mercy. In short, they are full of themselves and not at all thinking of their own personal poverty.

    Zee, the point of Jesus' dialogue there was not about if a person cast out demons or performed miracles in His name, or any other work that might be thought of as good, it is about believing that Jesus is the messiah, the (now) risen Christ of the living God.....it is about believing (and receiving) what Jesus was teaching.(hearing these words of mine)
    Matt 7:24 "Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock.
    Consider that there is no solider rock than Jesus, the risen Christ of God.
    All the works we can imagine typified by casting out demons and miracle working, religious observances such as ritual prayer, pilgrimages, fasting, giving alms etc.etc if placed on unstable foundations (sand), will just simply crumble to the dust on which they stand on that day of judgment.

    It is about believing God's testimony about His Son Jesus , and not branding God as a liar. It is about having a personal relationship with Him...now.
  10. I think you are missing the main point in what Jesus was saying. He said, "....I never knew you....." Only those who are led by the Spirit of God are the son's of God (Romans 8:14). If one is not being "led" of the Spirit of God, then every thing they do will be called "iniquity" which means doing your own thing even if it looks to be holy and good in the sight of man. If Jesus never knows a person, they were never his to begin with.
    KingJ and Waggles say Amen and like this.
  11. Most of John chapter 10 deals with this issue. It speaks of false shepherds or leaders of the flock and how the sheep know Jesus' voice and follow Him, and illustrates how the religious Jews who followed Him around professing to be devout God worshipers and followers(Jews and would be Christians if only they could believe) actually could not believe God's own Son. They acted as though if Jesus would just prove to them He was the Messiah, then they would believe, (and thereby become true Christians).
    There is much more, but this should be enough. Most of Jesus' dealings with the Pharisees had to do with this issue. These scholars of the scriptures should have been the most ardent followers of Jesus and the first Christians. Yet they would and could never give up their authority to Jesus. Nicodemus did and more of them did after the Resurrection.
  12. He warns us of false prophets and teachers, who come to us in sheeps clothing, deceiving and being deceived. By their fruits you shall know them. No doubt these are fake and false "Christians". But the deceived actually believe they are in Christ! They actually believe their identity is in Christ! They actually believe they know Christ! Simply by boasting in their works and profession, they show that they were DECEIVED into believing that they were in Christ by these false teachers.. That's why the Lord said, you will know them by their fruit.. Many false professors or pretenders believe they are trusting in Christ! So the question is, how do you know that you are in Christ and not deceived? To own Him (Christ) as Lord and Savior in word and tongue apart from a faithful and repented heart, is empty and without hope for the hypocrite. Ones outward doings of righteousness apart from faith in the righteousness of Christ, is worthless and without hope for the deceived hypocrite. We must take this warning to heart and examine ourselves, whether or not we are in the faith. Christ is our foundation for the elect! Christ is the anchor of our soul for the believer! Faith is the vehicle by which true Christians commit, rest, trusts, relies, and believes on the Lord Jesus Christ and His righteousness alone, as their only expectation of deliverance from the guilt and power of sin. A true believers despair over their sin drives them to lay hold upon Christ and to be led by His Spirit, for peace and comfort! The source and desire for obedience to Gods Word and Truth for the true believer, is his new life (new heart of regeneration) in Christ; which rest solely on the MERCY of God! Our hope is the gospel of Gods grace! And our praise is to God for His MERCY in saving us in Christ our Lord! Where's the hope for the hypocrite? In his doings and profession!! In his human effort or will! Outward morality and their faith in it, is the source for all false professors.. So he's in opposition to the righteousness of God in Christ, although he has a zeal for God; being deceived, and not submitting to the righteousness of Christ. These scriptures ought to bring us to focus on our walk and the ROCK by which we take refuge in, and the only hope to be delivered from the wrath to come.. To know Christ, is to be known by Christ, to the praise of His grace and mercy.
  13. Jesus will never reject His own. Knowing this fact should cause the reader of these verses to understand that He is speaking to unbelievers, and false converts. The bible calls such people "tares". They look like Christians and talk like Christians, but they have never received Him into their lives. Jesus knows who they are.

    christianbacktobasics and JG27_chili say Amen and like this.
  14. When my first born son was born. I looked at him and saw he bore my image . He bore my image because He came from me and I was his father . If he had nor come from me and I had not been his father he would not have born my image but the image of his true father .
    For my wifes sake I will say I did not expect any thing different .
    But the fact was that as I did recognise my image in him I picked him and received him as my son and with great rejoicing gave thanks to God and asked God to bless him.

    God has simplified the whole matter . if a man finds he is in hell it is because he has rejected he whom God has sent ."Who is the express image of the invisible God"
    A true BORN child of God " by the incorruptable seed which is the Word of God " now bares image of God for Christ now dwells in him. and we are renewed in the image of God daily.
    I never knew you is of a deeper nature as one may suppose . It is in some way the same as a man may know his wife .
    or a father knows who are his.
    Many will call me Lord . It is not then false christians it is an unrepentant sinner that is rejected who is not BORNagain .
    But is of another seed and of another father .
    and so is rejected .
    Many will do this or that in my name . and will be rejected.
    Why? because if you can understand all wisdom a GIFT but have not love ;the FRUIT ye are nothing . Note it does not say the gift is nothing it says 'you' are nothing .
    it does not say by their gifts ye will know them but by their FRUIT .
    and how comes this fruit?
    By the seed that is sown.
    For every seed brings forth fruit after its own kind.
    Jesus said speaking of himself " unless a seed fall into the griund and die it abideth alone ,but if it does it bringeth forth much fruit."
    Thus though many may claim to honour the Lord and call him Lord .They are not in truth crucified WITH Him or buried WITH him or then raised togther WITH Him.
    Islam say they honour Jesus but do not do what eh says .
    "If you ;love me you will obey my commandments ."
    Hindus count him as another 'god' in the midst of their many gods who are no gods and so do not honour Him as Lord .
    Many people say they honour and think he was a good man etc . But its with the lips ;the heart is far from him.

    Jesus said you MUST be BORNagain .By the Word that is the incorruptable seed , and by the Spirit which is the life .
    if you are not you too will be rejected by the Father for you rejected the Son.

    in Christ
  15. The tares were clearly identifiable BEFORE the day of the harvest .
    There are no false converts .They are not converted at all .
    That they may think they are converted is more or less due to a grace beign preached that is a disgrace on the one hand or like the man with the unclean spirit in Capernium was able week by week to sit in church undiscovered listening to the preaching .but uneffected.
    It was not untill the Lord came in the annointing that so much Spiritual 'pressure ' was put on it that the man cried out ,the unclean spirit was revealed and dealt with and the man was delivered .
    I have known pastors who have confessed that they do not preach what they should be preaching because they would lose half their congregation . I replied then lose them. Far better to preach the whole council of God and to honour God than to please men keep a big congregation and not please God.
    "It is the annointing that destroys the yoke " and if you use the world to draw the world you will need the world to keep the world .
    and if all you do is speak to the intillect then all you will have are people who "know" or understand nothing .
    Jesus said the words that I speak they are Spirit and they are life .
    If you preach but" the letter the letter kills " ,but the Spirit giveth life .
    Life produces life .
    If you have the Word of God and not the Spirit fo God or he has you . Then you will dry up.
    if you have the Spirit fo God but not the Word of God you will blow up.
    But if you have the Word of God and the Spirit of God you will grow up.

    Many have the Word of God and not the Spirit of God .But all they are ,are professors . Who have not or refuse to take their shoes off and just sit on the beach admiring the sea.
    we are BORNagain by the Word of God . For it is by understanding the Word that we have faith in God .and without faith it is impossible to please God.
    and by the Spirit of God .That not only quickens the Word to our understanding but makes us spiritually alive .
    Many a ritual speaks of God and calls Him Lord. But they are far from God and do not know Him.
    Nor he them.

    in Christ
  16. Here's what Jesus had to say about His followers:

    Mark 16:17-18 (KJV)
    And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. ​
    Waggles and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  17. #17 Euphemia, Jan 2, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2016
    In bible times agrarian society, tares are indistinguishable to the farmer until harvest, because it is then that tares stand erect, while true wheat bows the head. Tares are then easy to see and to cut down. In the meantime, we sit beside tares in church, and serve the Lord in ministry with tares. They are both false converts and the unconverted.

  18. In other words would it not come down to.........."Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?" ?????

    @Zee, we all need to focus our attention on doing the will of God. This primarily is to believe in Jesus as being the risen Christ of God. We need to believe in God's witness concerning Jesus His Son, and we need to trust in Jesus for our salvation as taught us in Acts 4:12. And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.
    We then need to obey God's commands in particular the first two commandments, if we don't get these right, all else that follows in our lives is of no eternal value.
    Cturtle likes this.
  19. Jesus did NOT say, "these signs shall follow them that do these things", he said, "these signs shall follow them that believe". Man believes and God does the works in which man believes in him to do, which would be casting out demons, laying hands on the sick....ect through those who believe.
    These people said, "did WE not cast cast out devils........" Anytime WE do something it will only be "lawlessness" When God does it through the man who believes it will be called "righteousness"
    Euphemia and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  20. Is the word of God not filled cover to cover with supernatural events? Would it not also translate to His true followers just as He did? Jesus is 100% God, but He chose to come only as a Man; He lived as a Man and died as Man. He rose from the dead as God. He wants us to literally follow in His footsteps, John 14:12. We have access to the same Spirit He had, Rom 8:4. He made us free from sin, Rom 6:7, 18, and wants us to obey the Spirit, 1 Peter 1:22, so we too can live just as He did. This is why He gave us the same Spirit and why He said what the signs would be of those that follow Him as real servants.
    Fish Catcher Jim, Waggles and Cturtle says Amen and like this.

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