Where did the water come from??????

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Major, Sep 9, 2015.

  1. Yes, it is a good study point. May I say that in Job 38:4-7 we see a hint of the answer when God speaks to Job.............
    "Where were you when I laid the foundation of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding, who set its measurements? Since you know. Or who stretched the line on it? On what were its bases sunk? Or who laid its cornerstone, when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"

    Most all translations say that "Sons of God" are the angels which implies that they were present at the creation.
     
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  2. Well, we know that Jesus says that he saw satan fall from heaven like lightning. So the earth must have been here for him to fall onto. Interesting side note, Jesus doesn’t say that He cast satan out of heaven, just that He saw this.

    Very interesting point that the bad angels were dumped on us. Why?

    1. God knows that creating beings with ability to choose to obey or not obey, which He obviously decided to allow, He knew that some would inevitably fall from honor, or sin, or whatever you want to call it.

    2. Knowing this, wouldn’t a God of love, mercy and goodness make a plan to redeem, to teach, to allow for this inevitability of selfishness and still have a way to bring some back to Himself for glory to share.

    God creates one type of being to know what God is, and another to be flesh instead of spirit who must know God through faith. We often hear that it is not fair that unbelievers do not know who God really is, and since they have no undeniable proof of a God, and yet they are condemned to hell. How much worse it is for the angels who have all the proof they want and when they rebel, there is no redemption for them. It makes this faith separation the desirable place to be.

    That is why the unforgivable sin is blaspheme the Holy Spirit, i.e. knowing all about God and still rebelling. God’s rule is that there is no redemption for someone who knows what God is all about and then still think they know better, making themselves higher than God, satan’s original sin. Those who are not aware of all that God is, then have the opportunity to be redeemed. A good and faithful servant.

    Sorry I took the long way back to the original question of why God would dump the angels on us. I don’t presume to know. But from what I do know, this could be being used as part of the plan for redemption. He makes the angels as an example to mankind, as to what God desires of us. The good angels are servants and loyal. The evil angels are selfish, haughty, destructive, proud, and so on. We learn much from the examples in the Bible of how the angels revere the Lord and how to worship.

    This life is a learning process, and only God knows what the ending purpose is.
     
    KingJ likes this.
  3. Yes, so we know the angels had not fallen at that point. And I would think the angels didn't fall until creation was complete. The other option would be that they fell during the gap theory, that they shouted for joy when the foundations were laid.



    One related question I have had is: Jesus is named the bright and morning star. Lucifer is also called a morning star. Could these be the “morning stars” mentioned in Job 38:7?
     
  4. We must not assume that animals then were as they are now.
    For if you consider that Adam was the father of all of man KIND . Then he had within him all that was needed to reproduce in its time all the various "sorts" of men.
    If that being the case then it is not unreasonable to have archetype of all the animals also . You did not then need every type of say dog . etc.
    it might eb worth considering that the serpent was upright it had legs and after God cursed it then it slid on its belly .
    The dinosours would not then have existed at the time of Noah .
    The only discription of a dinosaur in the Bible that I can find or near one is Leviathon .
    Then of course there is the dragon that old serpent etc.
    That the west which has a christian background sees the dragon as a wicked thing and the east that had no such heritage sees it as a good thing also is something to consider .
    Why then the city of London has them as its symbol is another matter .

    Conjecture has to be very limited and somethings cannot be understood till other things are. Like in mathematics . Where we needs must learn the basics of +-x and division before we can go on to fractions and by them onto algebra and so on.
    so also spiritual understanding its" line upon line precept upon precept "
    So that our conjecturing does not lead us into unbelief .
    We must keep a tight rein on our thinking and hold any such questions in a proper balance not lettign go or dropping what we do know simply because we do not understand another .

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  5. The key to the answer of that is the answer to the question :=

    Why was there a tree of lfe which they had free access to before they ate of the other tree that once they had doen so they were barred form eating it "lest the live for ever ........" in thier sin and rebellion.
    When had they not eaten of that other tree they would never have died and so would be walking on this earth today.

    If you answer that one it will give you an answer to the question you poised.
    Though I have to say that even in our questions we should not frame them in such a way that it slights Gods honour and integrity .

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  6. No sir but it is an excellent question and insight!

    The same Hebrew word in Job 38:7 is the one used in Job 1:6............
    "Now there was a day when the "sons of God" came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came also among them".

    The context confirms that the "sons of God' in 1:6 were the angels and apparently Satan has already fallen or he would have been included in "them" instead of being identified individually.
     
  7. An old error and one denied by Jesus who said angels do not marry ; they are in effect sexless.

    You cannot or should not take one principle clearly laid out as in "sons of God" and apply them to angels where there is nothing else in scripture to uphold such a thought .
    Angles are not sons of God in any way shape or form.

    Men are sons of God first by creation and then and if they are BORN again.
    For while man was CREATED in the image of God .he is BORN in the image of Adam that is to say "shappen in iniquity"
    Hence the need to be BORNagain of another seed an incoruptable seed,
    Angels can neither beget children or conceive them. .
    While that passage in Job is some what hard to understand . That should not give us licence to use any scripture that would deny other scripture .

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  8. Just because beings do not marry, does not mean they do not have a sex identity. Jesus called Abba, Father. Not Parent. The Father does not marry either, yet His identity is male in title. Jesus did not marry and He was male. Do not deny these scriptures either.
     
  9. I have no clue what you are talking about Gerald. No one said or is thinking that angels procreate.

    You are in fact correct in that Jesus told us in Matthew 22:30 that angels are "asexual".

    But that is not what I said at all when referring to the "sons of God" being angels as found in Job 1:6. Personally I do not find the passage difficult to understand at all.

    It is always about "Context".

    Have you read that verse???? It is a Heavenly scene. The Lord is on His throne and the "sons of God" come to present themselves to Him and with them came Satan. "Sons of God" in that verse refers to and can only refer to angels and it has nothing to do with sex or procreation at all. What it says is that God Created the angels.
     
  10. Actually, there is no Biblical record of a female angel or one with a feminine name neither is there a record of an angel being a child.
     
  11. One could surmise that they are all male, which would be a reason they don't marry, nor could have children.
     
  12. Yes we could.

    But since they are "asexual" according to Matthew 22:30 it would go without saying that they could not have children.
     
  13. Their sexual identities are not mentioned in Matthew 22:30.
     
  14. Very true. I think the real teaching here from the Lord is that when we get to heaven there will not be a need to continue the human race by means of birth. We will I think be very close to our husband/wife and can be together but we will not have to be.
     
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  15. Back to the OP, water is such an important element or item in the Bible and life as we know it.
    Scientists think that to have life elsewhere in the universe, water must be present. They get all giddy when they think they have found evidence of water in space.
    Water is a major component of our bodies and all other life. It is said in the Bible that life is in the blood. Water is a component of blood.

    Water plays such a significant role in the Bible. The Israelites passing thru the Red Sea. Water baptism. When they pierced His side, water came out. Living water that shall never run dry. The rivers emanating from the Garden. The River of Life. Walking on the water. Born of water. Water to wine. The Flood.
    Probably many more.
     
  16. God is ascribed himself as a Father for the simple reason that each seed produces after its own kind.
    and even as Jesus said it "the seed is the Word of God" and talking about Himself he said "unless a seed fall into the ground and die"
    Then it is the Father who has the seed not the mother .
    This is nto to bring things down to the carnal level.
    But are we not children of God being born again of an incorruptible seed?
    Then in THAT regard we are to view God as "our father" and not anything else if we are His.
    Jesus was then thee only begotten of the Father . He being fully man then was male in every sense .
    That is not then denying scripture it is putting scripture in its right places.
    Either in HEAVEN or on EARTH .
    On earth we are given in marriage and have children for man is made in the image of God.
    But what sayeth the scripture? The first Adam was the foreshadow of Him who was to come" who was to be the last Adam.
    Jesus clearly taught that in heaven there is no marriage and angles have no sexual aspect to them.
    For they neither can or do reproduce themselves.

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  17. Agreed!

    Moses speaking to the Rock and water coming out!!!
     
  18. What is a nieghbour? if not some one of another house and of another father?
    What then is a brother? Then one of the same house and same father .

    How "close" we will be to who we knew on earth will be in the same measure we were "close "to them spiritually on earth .
    Geographical proximity does not always reflect spiritual proximity .
    In Christ
    gerald
     
  19. No offense was intended. But you have simply not heard then what follows from that reasoning which I have .
    Moreover Jesus did NOT say they were asexual .
    What scriptures says is they are spiritual and what gender is the spirit?
    You suggest that because this is taking place in heaven then it MUST be talking about angels .
    have you forgotten that we approach God not in the tabernacle not made with hands ? The one made with hands was made "after the pattern of the heavenly" Hebrews.

    in Christ
    gerald
     
  20. No sir, I did not forget and I never suggest anything, but I did however read the Scripture in question.

    Matthew 22:30
    "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. "

    Jesus told us that we, resurrected believers will like the angels in heaven.
     

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